LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[AustinTink]

I wasn't under the impression Cabana Bay was considered in the same "level" of Universal resort as the other two (to use a WDW analogy, I thought it was like a moderate or something, whiel the others were deluxe). I may very well be wrong here, this is just what my understanding is.

Disney already has a division in their hotels - value/moderate/deluxe. Everyone understands when they book that Deluxe resorts have different amenities than moderates, etc. If they start saying - officially - "well, Beach Club, Yacht Club and Boardwalk are considered "not as Deluxe" as Grand Floridian, Poly, Contemporary, then I think they're going to have some issues with PR. I understand many guests may view some of those hotels to be on different levels for various resort-related reasons (the 7 in 7 podcasts are a good example of why/how), but that's different than Disney coming out and officially giving the latter better in park amenities than the others.

I think Cabana Bay is considered more value to moderate. I don't think the folks that stay there are miffed that Express Pass is not offered to them. They know what they are booking.

 

[SmithSmith]

I've heard its a value plus, like AoA. According to trip advisor both hotels are rated 3 stars, while POR is 3 1/2.

 

[AustinTink]

I agree. Cabana Bay isn't considered to be on the same level as their other hotels. Although I have to say, while I can't put my finger on it, I just didn't like the idea that one on site hotel got shorted on perks at Universal. We stayed on site to get the pass- ended up not needing it- but that's when I realized they did this and it just didn't sit well with me- and honestly, I don't why. I still don't like the idea. I don't think Disney will ever do it.

They already do in a very small way by offering FP+ reservations at 60 days to onsite guests vs. 30 for everyone else. I can see them pushing the envelope even further somehow, probably never as far as Universal though.

 

[Silock]

There are no numbers to support it. Disney doesn't even release their attendance officially, do you think that they would release those numbers? As I said before, it is common sense to me. If you don't agree so be it. I spent 3 posts just to argue over the word "daily". You can stop responding to my posts now.

You're free, of course, to ignore me. But since you don't have numbers, and neither do I, can we then agree that such speculation is just that -- speculation?

Also, you brought up the word "daily," not me. That was all your doing.

 

[Silock]

Since you say "other parks"--

Off season, my family rode EE at least 3x.

Multiple days permits multiple rides at other parks with park hopping.

When you think outside of the box, there are solutions. Not liking said solutions does not make them not a solution.

Huh? I'm agreeing with this. I rode EE 6 times in 4 hours last time I was at AK. That wasn't possible on the same day for SM at MK.

EDIT: I realize it's difficult to follow all the different sub conversations here. The idea in question was whether or not there are people riding roller coasters at Disney 3 times a day. I contended that there may not be many people riding all 3 at MK in one day, but that due to the lower number of rides at other parks, there may be a higher number doing so at other parks.

 

[SmithSmith]

They already do in a very small way by offering FP+ reservations at 60 days to onsite guests vs. 30 for everyone else. I can see them pushing the envelope even further somehow, probably never as far as Universal though.

WDW does give 4th FP bookable by texting concierge by staying CL. I'm not a fan of tiering perks with resort level, but I don't mind the texting to get 4th FP thing, since it's just a service.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I wouldn't mind paying for FP the way I pay for Express Pass at Universal. The room rates have gone up quite a bit to pay for the "free" perk of express pass and I'm happy to pay it. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is to tour the park way I choose.

Comparing Room-only rack rates for a trip in early November (5 nights, Fri-Wed) for 2 adults, 1 child (3 y/o):

Portofino Bay - Garden View, 2 Queen room: $249/night, $1,400.64 total
Wilderness Lodge - Standard, Woods view, 2 Queen room: $381.60 avg/night, $2,146.51 total

Wilderness Lodge was the cheapest WDW Deluxe to compare to. The avg/night rate for the next lowest priced WDW Deluxe was AKL at $454.40 avg/night, and it only goes up from there.

I really don't think Disney has the room to increase their Deluxe hotel rack rates to include what they'd need to include to cover a paid express pass type option.

*Note: I did this comparison using rack rates. I'm aware that there are discounts that can make those lower - probably at both WDW and Universal resorts, but those are variables. I was trying to keep the comparison as consistent as possible.*

 

[wisblue]

For any discussion comparing policies at US and WDW it is important to keep in mind how much greater the crowds are at WDW.

According to the TEA numbers that I saw for 2013, the attendance figures for the 6 Orlando area parks were:

MK 18,588,000
EPCOT 11,229,000
DAK, 10,198,000
DHS 10,110,000
IOA 8,141,000
USO 7,062, 000

Even with a reported increase of 14% due to the opening of Diagon Alley, the attendance at USO is still less than half of the attendance at the MK.

It looks like one of WDW's biggest "problems" is that it is simply too popular for its own good. Just pay attention to how many people on the Dis, including many who have to travel significant distances to get there, say that they spend 1,2, or 3 weeks or more at WDW every year.

 

[AustinTink]

Comparing Room-only rack rates for a trip in early November (5 nights, Fri-Wed) for 2 adults, 1 child (3 y/o):

Portofino Bay - Garden View, 2 Queen room: $249/night, $1,400.64 total
Wilderness Lodge - Standard, Woods view, 2 Queen room: $381.60 avg/night, $2,146.51 total

Wilderness Lodge was the cheapest WDW Deluxe to compare to. The avg/night rate for the next lowest priced WDW Deluxe was AKL at $454.40 avg/night, and it only goes up from there.

I really don't think Disney has the room to increase their Deluxe hotel rack rates to include what they'd need to include to cover a paid express pass type option.

*Note: I did this comparison using rack rates. I'm aware that there are discounts that can make those lower - probably at both WDW and Universal resorts, but those are variables. I was trying to keep the comparison as consistent as possible.*

And that's in November, during low season. I can tell you Portofino is in the same price range as Wilderness Lodge during our spring break dates.

 

[cakebaker]

They already do in a very small way by offering FP+ reservations at 60 days to onsite guests vs. 30 for everyone else. I can see them pushing the envelope even further somehow, probably never as far as Universal though.

That's not pitting one on site resort against another. I don't think Disney likes to openly advertise that one resort is somehow more deserving of perks than another. I don't think you'll find many on site guests whether they're value or deluxe that thinks on site guests shouldn't get the 60 day window. You'll find plenty who don't think they should differentiate between resorts...and not just those staying in values.

 

[SmithSmith]

Comparing Room-only rack rates for a trip in early November (5 nights, Fri-Wed) for 2 adults, 1 child (3 y/o):

Portofino Bay - Garden View, 2 Queen room: $249/night, $1,400.64 total
Wilderness Lodge - Standard, Woods view, 2 Queen room: $381.60 avg/night, $2,146.51 total

Wilderness Lodge was the cheapest WDW Deluxe to compare to. The avg/night rate for the next lowest priced WDW Deluxe was AKL at $454.40 avg/night, and it only goes up from there.

I really don't think Disney has the room to increase their Deluxe hotel rack rates to include what they'd need to include to cover a paid express pass type option.

*Note: I did this comparison using rack rates. I'm aware that there are discounts that can make those lower - probably at both WDW and Universal resorts, but those are variables. I was trying to keep the comparison as consistent as possible.*

Just a couple things to keep in mind when pricing Uni resorts, they charge for things WDW doesn't. So if you need daily parking, mini fridge, airport transfer, etc, you have to tack those on if you need them.

Eta: also 5 nights is a long time at Uni, most people suggest the need for two or three nights. So if you did only 2 or 3, the resort rates would be higher since Uni lowers rates the longer you stay.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think Cabana Bay is considered more value to moderate. I don't think the folks that stay there are miffed that Express Pass is not offered to them. They know what they are booking.

Right. The analogy there would be a Disney guest choosing to stay at Port Orleans French Quarter over the Contemporary. Disney makes it clear those hotels are in different categories (moderate vs deluxe), and that expectations of amenities should be adjusted accordingly.

What you seemed to be referencing was Disney offering the "better" Deluxe hotels the express pass, but not offering the "lesser" Deluxe hotels the same thing. That's the problem I see - offer guests at (for ex) the Contemporary better in-park amenities than those staying at the Boardwalk, would be a PR problem for them unless they completely restructure their existing hotel categories first.

*Note: I'm not saying Boardwalk is actually lesser than Contemporary - that's strictly a hypothetical situation, and i just picked two Deluxe hotels for the example *

 

[Angel Ariel]

Just a couple things to keep in mind when pricing Uni resorts, they charge for things WDW doesn't. So if you need daily parking, mini fridge, airport transfer, etc, you have to tack those on if you need them.

I didn't know that - so that's a good point, I'd be surprised if adding those made it equal to the WDW price, though.

Eta: also 5 nights is a long time at Uni, most people suggest the need for two or three nights. So if you did only 2 or 3, the resort rates would be higher since Uni lowers rates the longer you stay.

As I said, I was making the comparison as consistent as possible. I thought I'd be called out on being unfair if I booked one for a longer number of nights than another. I made all booking information identical to limit that. I also did not know that Universal did that, nor was it mentioned on the first reservation page I made. I just went back and modified it to 3 nights to see what it would be (it did go up to 303/night, still decently below WL and over $100/night less than AKL), and it was mentioned on the new page that came up.

 

[Angel Ariel]

And that's in November, during low season. I can tell you Portofino is in the same price range as Wilderness Lodge during our spring break dates.

it's low season for both resorts

I don't know how either resorts treat more last-minute reservations. I was trying to keep the comparison as fair as possible, so I picked a time period far away, and kept the booking dates/details identical between the reservations.

 

[SmithSmith]

I didn't know that - so that's a good point, I'd be surprised if adding those made it equal to the WDW price, though.



As I said, I was making the comparison as consistent as possible. I thought I'd be called out on being unfair if I booked one for a longer number of nights than another. I made all booking information identical to limit that. I also did not know that Universal did that, nor was it mentioned on the first reservation page I made. I just went back and modified it to 3 nights to see what it would be (it did go up to 303/night, still decently below WL and over $100/night less than AKL), and it was mentioned on the new page that came up.

I understand, it's really hard to compare WDW to Uni hotels. I believe the deluxe hotels charge $20 per night for parking, and $15 per day for mini fridge. Not sure about airport transfers.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Huh? I'm agreeing with this. I rode EE 6 times in 4 hours last time I was at AK. That wasn't possible on the same day for SM at MK.

EDIT: I realize it's difficult to follow all the different sub conversations here. The idea in question was whether or not there are people riding roller coasters at Disney 3 times a day. I contended that there may not be many people riding all 3 at MK in one day, but that due to the lower number of rides at other parks, there may be a higher number doing so at other parks.

Then forgive me as I did get lost and misunderstood the parameters of what you were speaking about.

 

[Buddyex]

Everybody that goes to Disney World whether it be Value, Moderate , Deluxe or off site is spending a considerable amount of money on their Disney Vacation regardless of their budget. To further break up into a class system what was once an even playing field for all under the old fast-pass system and offer additional perks based on how much your hotel room cost, just seems to be too greedy and mean spirited for even a huge conglomerate like Disney. It would be terrible to see families priced out of enjoying rides on their Disney Holiday.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Everybody that goes to Disney World whether it be Value, Moderate , Deluxe or off site is spending a considerable amount of money on their Disney Vacation regardless of their budget. To further break up into a class system what was once an even playing field for all under the old fast-pass system and offer additional perks based on how much your hotel room cost, just seems to be too greedy and mean spirited for even a huge conglomerate like Disney. It would be terrible to see families priced out of enjoying rides on their Disney Holiday.

I agree, completely. I highly doubt Disney will monetize FP+ the way Universal has the Express Pass.

 

[MrInfinity]

Try to take advantage of a LATE EMH at Magic Kingdom. It was seriously the best fun we had at the parks.

Maybe we'll try this one day... both you and Cake have recommended it. What day is late EMH typically in December? Obviously one not conflicting with MVMCP...

 

[SmithSmith]

Maybe we'll try this one day... both you and Cake have recommended it. What day is late EMH typically in December? Obviously one not conflicting with MVMCP...

I'm not sure, I was hoping you'd know!

I believe this past December it was on Saturdays. I think the first Saturday of the month EMH was 1-3. I'm pretty sure...

When we went in sept, it was also Saturday, from 12-2. The park emptied at midnight. It was great, I hope it wasn't an anomaly.