LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[cakebaker]

I don't think there is any doubt as to what posters she was referring to

No, there wasn't, but that has little to do with my response to you. Obviously you didn't comprehend what I was saying. Let me try and clear it up for you. I have the same exact opinion as she does- only I'm talking about a different set of people. I have no question about who she was referring to.

Point was, the exact same thing can be said for the other side- it's going on 2 years and the same little handful of people are still constantly posting about it and complaining. That gets just as old.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Yes, tiering was definitely an improvement.


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Ummm....yeah, for someone who maybe couldn't get a FP+ for Soarin/TT/TSMM/RnR because those first to the trough were getting both Soarin' and TT, or both TSMM and RnR......the added availability of a headline FP+ just might have been considered an improvement.

When the system first came out you could only book 3 FP+, period. Subsequently, they added the ability to make a 4th, 5th, etc., etc. Is anyone willing to stand up and say that wasn't an improvement????

 

[Laketravis]

Here are my FP+ predictions from over a year ago. Please tell me what "improvements" I missed, as well as which ones I was wrong about.

You can verify this quote in it's unedited form here: http://www.disboards.com/threads/an...t-mk-as-of-1-14.3219433/page-11#post-50450523

My top 10 FP+ predictions for 2014:

1. HS and EP will continue to be tiered
2. AK and MK will not be tiered
3. The one park per day restriction will stay
4. The allotment of 3 FP's per day will not increase
5. Onsite guests will maintain a scheduling advantage
6. Rope Drop and EMH will no longer be advantageous
7. There will not be additional FP's available for an upcharge
8. FP Kiosk queues will become an issue
9. Standby lines will decrease somewhat from the extremes while FP lines will spread to all attractions (queue equilibrium)
10. The app will still be buggy

I certainly won't mind being wrong on any of these over the next 12 months

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[Luckybee]

No, there wasn't, but that has little to do with my response to you. Point was, the exact same thing can be said for the other side- it's going on 2 years and the same little handful of people are still constantly posting about it and complaining. That gets just as old.

LOL....and the same even smaller handful of people constantly jumping in to defend all things fp+

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Just a suggestion -- how about if we go with "I'm glad you brought it up, because Disney has made changes to FP+ in response to the most frequent complaints. So clearly Disney is not ignoring the feedback."

This makes LLPs main point (that Disney is not ignoring feedback), and nobody has to argue about whether or not they are improvements.

That is a fair rewording. I am sure semantics will remain debated as to it still being an opinion.

 

[Luckybee]

Ummm....yeah, for someone who maybe couldn't get a FP+ for Soarin/TT/TSMM/RnR because those first to the trough were getting both Soarin' and TT, or both TSMM and RnR......the added availability of a headline FP+ just might have been considered an improvement.

When the system first came out you could only book 3 FP+, period. Subsequently, they added the ability to make a 4th, 5th, etc., etc. Is anyone willing to stand up and say that wasn't an improvement????

Just did !

 

[Luckybee]

Here are my FP+ predictions from over a year ago. Please tell me what "improvements" I missed, as well as which ones I was wrong about.

You can verify this quote in it's unedited form here: http://www.disboards.com/threads/an...t-mk-as-of-1-14.3219433/page-11#post-50450523




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Well there are those who would say 4. changed, and I guess technically it did

 

[Laketravis]

Ummm....yeah, for someone who maybe couldn't get a FP+ for Soarin/TT/TSMM/RnR because those first to the trough were getting both Soarin' and TT, or both TSMM and RnR......the added availability of a headline FP+ just might have been considered an improvement.

Wait a minute - now two FP+ fans have stated that without FP's guests can't ride certain rides?


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[Laketravis]

Well there are those who would say 4. changed, and I guess technically it did

That was referring to the three that are initially obtained when making online reservations but if anyone wants to argue that point I'll give it to them.


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[cakebaker]

LOL....and the same even smaller handful of people constantly jumping in to defend all things fp+

I wouldn't agree it's even smaller. But the thing is, your constantly complaining about a system that is most likely not going away serves no purpose. Those of us who have figured out how to use the system do at least succeed in helping others who have not used it before and are caused a lot of stress by all the un-helpful hand wringing.

 

[JimmyV]

Ummm....yeah, for someone who maybe couldn't get a FP+ for Soarin/TT/TSMM/RnR because those first to the trough were getting both Soarin' and TT, or both TSMM and RnR......the added availability of a headline FP+ just might have been considered an improvement.

This is a perfect example of how something can be both an improvement and a diminishment. If you were an on site guest with a 60 day window, you could be first to the trough and get all the headliners. For that person, tiering is a diminishment. If you were an off site guest, (and a local AP holder? Not sure how that works), and you found that your access to headliners was limited, then tiering is an improvement. So having established that it is both simultaneously, it is difficult to call tiering an "improvement". It is a "change". Now, of course, all of this is looked at from the guests' perspective. As fuzzylogic consistently points out, Disney has a vested interest in pleasing as any people as possible through a more equal distribution of FPs. So tiering is an improvement for Disney. Final score: Disney=improvement; off site guests=improvement; on site guests=diminishment. One can assume that Disney doesn't care more about off site guests than it does on site guests. So the fact that off site guests come out ahead could not have been the tipping point in deciding to go with tiering. So that leaves the competition as between Disney and on site guests, and Disney chose its own interests over the on site guests. As it has every right to do. The corporate loyalist will say that Disney should always do what is best for itself, and the hardened cynic will use this as an example of Disney "not caring for its guests and only doing what is best for Disney". I'm not wading into those waters.

 

[Laketravis]

I spend very little time "complaining" about FP. In fact, I prefer to think that I don't complain but discuss possible ramifications and look for ways to make it work.

But the fact is I spend more time responding to and correcting ridiculous claims, misinterpretation of vernacular, twisted semantics, half truths, and opinions presented as facts.


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[MrInfinity]

I see your point, but I don't think that it is inconsistent to revel in the ignorance of others and take advantage of a system that others don't fully understand, and at the same time make the neutral point that the system operator needs to do a better job at educating the masses. There is no doubt that in so doing, Disney would be harming me. But that doesn't alter the observation that education is lacking. As long as people think that you have to buy more FPs, I win. But the larger part of me would prefer to live in a world where people were not so ill-informed. Sort of like the cashier at the store who cannot count out change. If they err against you, you correct them. If they err in your favor, you say nothing and profit. It would be foolish of me to wish that the cashier were smarter and were better at math. But I do. Maybe I am a sap.

So given that you (and I) "revel in the ignorance of others" and by doing so under both FP- and FP+, we can get on more rides... why would you then proceed to make the altruistic argument that Disney should properly educate everyone? They're educating more people now than they did under FP-, and already we're seeing the availability of FP's drop as a result. I just think you're being inconsistent here.

Either you're trying to get an edge over the general populace, or you believe all should be educated to the point that one can no longer get a competitive edge.

I happen to like that despite the fact that FP+ is not quite as easy to take advantage of as FP- was because so many more people are using FP+, at least there are still some places I can get an edge. One such way is by being educated on how to use it. Maybe the midnight thing. I'm okay with Disney not posting "go out at midnight and do this" cuz as long as they don't, I can go out at Midnight (thanks to the collective learning out here) and get a competitive edge. This in turn gets me A&E or SDMT with no wait, which in turn makes FP+ good for me -- because while I can't ride Soarin 3 times, saving me 45 min per, like in FP- days, I can ride A&E once saving me 4 hours. And SDMT and maybe Peter pan on top of it. See? Net benefit.

I get that maybe you're a sap. And if a cashier makes a mistake and overchanges you, you'd return it. Great. But when it comes to rides, you seem to be entirely okay with riding Soarin over and over, w no such sappiness toward the guests that got to ride not at all. We never saw them, it doesn't matter, and we say "they could have learned FP- if they wanted to". Right? So the same should apply now.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Sort of like the cashier at the store who cannot count out change. If they err against you, you correct them. If they err in your favor, you say nothing and profit.

Not sure if the 'you' here is something you do, or just your commentary on society, so I'm not looking to pick on anyone specific here. I do find that this kind of comment, thinking along these lines, explains some of the differences in opinions/outlook we have on FP+.

The comment above typifies a me first mentality....Keep the money! Yippee!! Right, wrong, indifferent I come out ahead, the rest be darned!!!! Who cares that the cashier has a drawer to count and will have to answer later for the money he or she is short, I win and could care less about anyone else!!!!

Most of the dislikes regarding FP+ seem to stem from the fact that the system limits a few people's ability to maximize FPs as they used to be able to (prevents them from 'keeping the money', if you will), while (indisputably?) making more FPs available to many more guests.

Other guests getting the FP I used to get doesn't benefit ME, it's not a good system for ME. However, that doesn't make it a flawed system.....

 

[DisneyKidds]

Wait a minute - now two FP+ fans have stated that without FP's guests can't ride certain rides?


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Who said that? Wasn't me...

 

[JimmyV]

But when it comes to rides, you seem to be entirely okay with riding Soarin over and over, w no such sappiness toward the guests that got to ride not at all. We never saw them, it doesn't matter, and we say "they could have learned FP- if they wanted to". Right? So the same should apply now.

Not really. I can't change the world. But I can change what is in front of me. If a cashier erred in my favor, I would correct the error. If I heard a person in Epcot tell his child that he isn't going to "pay for more Fast Passes", I would interrupt and correct him and let him know that they are free. None of these things help me in any material sense. But they help me in a moral and emotional sense. But there is simply no way for me to correct all the ignoramuses on Trip Advisor. So, in the meantime, I work my commando magic. I don't see the inconsistency.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Just did !

What....stood up and said the ability to book FPs beyond your third was not an improvement over the system as first released????

Mind explaining your reasoning on that, if that is what you are saying?

 

[Laketravis]

Sorry, but suggesting that anyone who spends thousands on a vacation should accept less in return so that others who have spent thousands as well don't get stuck with even less is the silliest defense of a theme park ride rationing system I've ever heard.


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[MrInfinity]

Not really. I can't change the world. But I can change what is in front of me. If a cashier erred in my favor, I would correct the error. If I heard a person in Epcot tell his child that he isn't going to "pay for more Fast Passes", I would interrupt and correct him and let him know that they are free. None of these things help me in any material sense. But they help me in a moral and emotional sense. But there is simply no way for me to correct all the ignoramuses on Trip Advisor. So, in the meantime, I work my commando magic. I don't see the inconsistency.

Well, alright. I was under the impression you were trying to help these folks. Asserting Disney should train everyone to use the system optimally or whatever. It's a bad "against FP+ argument" to make to say that guests don't understand it, because the even greater lack of understanding of FP- is what made it so great. Anyways. Think we're on the same page still regarding this. One of the few points in which we tend to be close to similar views.

 

[MrInfinity]

Sorry, but suggesting that anyone who spends thousands on a vacation should accept less in return so that others who have spent thousands as well don't get stuck with even less is the silliest defense of a theme park ride rationing system I've ever heard.

Lake you're not "choosing less" to give a ride to someone else so they can have a good trip. Disney is choosing. They are choosing to make 3 guests happy w the same # of rides that you used to consume yourself. That's life. They're right to do this. That's not great for you. But it is great for a lot more people than you. And frankly... You're still going. So it's not all that bad even for you.