LOST SEASON 3 **Official** Discussion/Speculation Thread (No Spoilers)

[TiggerPiglet]

Come on, they watched the flashbacks like the rest of us

LOL

 

[MyGoofy26]

I thought about that last night and think it's possible that they have not told Juliet about Danielle and Alex. Juliet has only been there 3 years so maybe they felt she only needed to know the "here and now" to fix their problem and not Island history. One gets the impression that Ben is not completely honest with anyone. Rumor has it that Danielle will be a part of the last 5 episodes so maybe we'll be able to tell by Juliet's reaction to Danielle.

I think you're exactly right about Ben.

The old comm major in my LOVES Ben as a character. He doesn't lie. Not outright. He leaves out information. He misleads. He presents information in a way that allows it to be interpreted in another way, all the while never actually lying. He manipulates the way he speaks to implant specific meaning in someone's head that contradicts the real truth without ever actually telling a lie. He's absolutely fascinating. And I think this is why Ben takes it so seriously when called a liar. He isn't. He's a manipulator, but not an outright liar.

So I think Ben is telling the truth, but leaving out a lot of details. Perhaps at one time things were fine, that women could get pregnant and carry to term and have healthy children. SOMETHING happened, and by the speed in which they recruited Juliet I'm guessing it was something that happened not too terribly long before she was recruited. But Ben isn't one to offer more information than is absolutely necessary. He's worried about the problem at hand, that pregnancy is fatal to women of the island and if he thinks Juliet can figure it out without whatever information there may be from before this happened, he'll keep it a secret.

 

[MyGoofy26]

Something I wanted to throw out here for discussion. Anyone else think the sub was just a prop?

A few episodes ago when Locke blew it up, Ben made a comment that having the sub there made the non-native Others feel like they could leave. They didn't feel trapped. Basically saying it was like a security blanket - they were happy to be there as long as they think they have a way home. His wording (like I posted above, I LOVE him as a character and love to analyze how he presents info) was more about how it makes people feel, not the actual function of the sub. And like I said, Ben doesn't lie, he's just very careful with his words. I find it interesting that he is very careful not to come out and say that the sub is how they get to/from the island, only that it makes people feel like they can go to/from the island.

So, they had to knock Juliet out to take the sub to the island? Because it's such a rough entry? What about everyone else there? Why didn't they have to be knocked out? I think there's another way to/from the island that they're not giving up. The sub is a prop - people think it's how they got there, people think it's how they can leave so they don't go searching for any more answers.

 

[MyGoofy26]

OK, so I was thinking about that sub stuff last night and a little today before I posted and once I wrote it out my brain started pushing it a little further. Funny how that works!

Anyway, IF the above is true, I wonder if Ben let Juliet in on the REAL way they get to/from the island and promised to take her home if she plays along with this plan from last night?

 

[MAKmom]

Didnt Ben say he was born on the Island?

 

[MyGoofy26]

Didnt Ben say he was born on the Island?

Yep - that's why people are theorizing that he lied, or if they're like me, theorizing that this all women dying when pregnant thing is a relatively recent development.

 

[Lanshark]

What a great episode!!! I want to believe that Juliet is a "good guy" because they make her seem so sympathetic in flashbacks. But it's hard to tell.

Question: who was the guy on the island that Juliet was sleeping with? Have we seen him before?

Isn't he the guy that was with Anna Lucia? I believe the locked him in a pen or something because they thought he was one of the others. It's seems there was a fight on a hilltop or something. Maybe I'm having flashbacks now but I know I've seen him too.

 

[MyGoofy26]

Isn't he the guy that was with Anna Lucia? I believe the locked him in a pen or something because they thought he was one of the others. It's seems there was a fight on a hilltop or something. Maybe I'm having flashbacks now but I know I've seen him too.

They locked someone else in the pen thinking he was an Other, but Goodwyn set him free just to snap his neck. There was a fight on the hill though, that's when he leaped at Ana Lucia and jumped straight onto that stick she had, stabbing him through the chest.

 

[Kycha]

Didnt Ben say he was born on the Island?

Yep - that's why people are theorizing that he lied, or if they're like me, theorizing that this all women dying when pregnant thing is a relatively recent development.

He didn't say he was born on the island. He said he has spent his whole life on the island. Big difference.

 

[briarwolf]

OK, so I was thinking about that sub stuff last night and a little today before I posted and once I wrote it out my brain started pushing it a little further. Funny how that works!

Anyway, IF the above is true, I wonder if Ben let Juliet in on the REAL way they get to/from the island and promised to take her home if she plays along with this plan from last night?

I think you are on to something there. Given the bad history between her and Ben there has to be a very motivating reason for her to play along, and her sister seems to be her big motivation.

 

[briarwolf]

OK, so I was thinking about that sub stuff last night and a little today before I posted and once I wrote it out my brain started pushing it a little further. Funny how that works!

Anyway, IF the above is true, I wonder if Ben let Juliet in on the REAL way they get to/from the island and promised to take her home if she plays along with this plan from last night?

I think you're exactly right about Ben.

The old comm major in my LOVES Ben as a character. He doesn't lie. Not outright. He leaves out information. He misleads. He presents information in a way that allows it to be interpreted in another way, all the while never actually lying. He manipulates the way he speaks to implant specific meaning in someone's head that contradicts the real truth without ever actually telling a lie. He's absolutely fascinating. And I think this is why Ben takes it so seriously when called a liar. He isn't. He's a manipulator, but not an outright liar.

So I think Ben is telling the truth, but leaving out a lot of details. Perhaps at one time things were fine, that women could get pregnant and carry to term and have healthy children. SOMETHING happened, and by the speed in which they recruited Juliet I'm guessing it was something that happened not too terribly long before she was recruited. But Ben isn't one to offer more information than is absolutely necessary. He's worried about the problem at hand, that pregnancy is fatal to women of the island and if he thinks Juliet can figure it out without whatever information there may be from before this happened, he'll keep it a secret.

Ben reminds me of one of the "Aes Sedai" from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

 

[MyGoofy26]

He didn't say he was born on the island. He said he has spent his whole life on the island. Big difference.

In "The Man from Tallahasse Ben specifically says, "I was born on this island."

Edited to add: I have the dvd in my recorder at the moment so I went back to doublecheck just to make sure I did remember that correctly. Ben's little monologue goes, "I was born on this island. Not many of my people can say that. Most of them were recruited and brought here. And as much as they love this place, as much as they would do anything to defend it, they need to know they can leave if they want to. The sub maintains that illusion."


Perfect quote to look up for me given my previous post. Right after that Locke says, "So you're lying to them?" Ben replies, "No. They're here because they want to be here. Some of them are just not ready to make a full commitment, yet."


OK so a couple things going on up there. Ben isn't the only Other born on the island. Does this mean just Alex? Or other researchers as well? BUT that quote confirms that in the past, this pregnancy problem didn't exist.

Then the sub thing. Illusion is a very important word. And Ben's reaction to Locke catching it. He sorta stuttered that no and gave a very interesting answer.

 

[CT_Dad]

In "The Man from Tallahasse Ben specifically says, "I was born on this island."

OK so a couple things going on up there. Ben isn't the only Other born on the island. Does this mean just Alex? Or other researchers as well? BUT that quote confirms that in the past, this pregnancy problem didn't exist.

Then the sub thing. Illusion is a very important word. And Ben's reaction to Locke catching it. He sorta stuttered that no and gave a very interesting answer.

Very good thoughts about Ben. He does withhold a lot without really lying. The sub being a prop is a good thought too.

And I thought I was right that Ben said he was born on the island. Thanks for posting that quote. And "not many of my people can say that" tells us that others were born on the island. But, does he mean "born" in the usual sense? I wonder if Karl was born on the island too--or what reason they had to bring him there? I hope they go back to him at some point.

 

[JulyGirl]

Your sub theory is very interesting. You may be on to something there.

 

[CT_Dad]

Then the sub thing. Illusion is a very important word. And Ben's reaction to Locke catching it. He sorta stuttered that no and gave a very interesting answer.

Did it also seem to you that Ben knew that Locke was going to blow up the sub and didn't object? That's the sense that I got.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

I just watched Wednesday's episode!

OMG! This show is so good with endings! Here I sat, thinking the Other's were going to end up being good after all, that poor Ethan died, and he was trying to help, and then the END! Good LORD what is going on????

Has it already been 11 weeks since we started seeing new episodes? Only 5 weeks left until the season finale. YIKES I am so afraid the season cliff hanger is going to drive me insane to have to wait all summer!

 

[gometros]

Ben reminds me of one of the "Aes Sedai" from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

Being a fan of The Wheel of Time, I have to say that's a great analogy.

 

[BriarfoxinWA]

Ok in one of the more recent episodes Ben told Locke something about the island giving you what you need. Then he takes Locke into the room with his father all tied up. So I'm wondering...in the last episode - Juliette tells Ben that he has a tumor and real soon...lo and behold a plane falls out of the sky that just happens to have Jack the surgeon on it...

 

[CT_Dad]

Ok in one of the more recent episodes Ben told Locke something about the island giving you what you need. Then he takes Locke into the room with his father all tied up. So I'm wondering...in the last episode - Juliette tells Ben that he has a tumor and real soon...lo and behold a plane falls out of the sky that just happens to have Jack the surgeon on it...

I think Ben said something about that himself once. He might have been talking to Juliette and said he needed a spinal surgeon and one falls out of the sky.

I wonder whose needs the island responds to though and why. Juliette or the Losties certainly wouldn't feel like the island has given them what they need--or maybe they're not in tune enough with their own needs.

It's kind of interesting that this island-will-provide idea goes completely against Hurley's new motto of make your own luck.

 

[MareQ]

He didn't say he was born on the island. He said he has spent his whole life on the island. Big difference.

Nope. He said he was born on the island.