Lookout Cay long pier.

[71 Truck]

For all of you talking about Orlando taking a direct hit from a hurricane, it NEVER does. Orlando is 50 miles from either shore. The coastal towns all take direct hits but an hour inland is much more protected. Not that it can't do damage to someone's home or cause flooding, but it wouldn't be nearly as intense as what they experience on the coast.

We live 55 miles inland from the Jersey shore. When Sandy hit, it lifted homes off their foundations, setting them adrift, and pulled a roller coaster out to sea. The AC Convention Center had several feet of water in it. Our friends with a home in Mystic Island had the ocean completely enter their home up to the level of their bathroom vanity countertop, and threw their hot tub down the street.

We had a few trees down in our town but no flooding and we never lost power. An hour drive inland from a direct hit is a huge difference.

Everybody always focus's on the eye and where it will come ashore and yes the coast always gets hit worse than inland. However the effects from a storm can be felt hours and some times even days before the eye hits land.

In 2017 hurricane Irma went through central Florida with wind speeds just under 100 miles per hour. That is a strong Category 1 and almost a category 2 storm.
Before that there were in 2004 Charlie was a category 2 storm, Frances not quite a category 1 storm and Jean, a category 1 storm. All those storms went right through central Florida, past Disney World at those strengths.


My wife and I were at Cast Away Cay after Frances and Jean hit the Island. Disney did a great job getting it cleaned up and ready for guests.

 

[randumb0]

For all of you talking about Orlando taking a direct hit from a hurricane, it NEVER does. Orlando is 50 miles from either shore. The coastal towns all take direct hits but an hour inland is much more protected. Not that it can't do damage to someone's home or cause flooding, but it wouldn't be nearly as intense as what they experience on the coast.

We live 55 miles inland from the Jersey shore. When Sandy hit, it lifted homes off their foundations, setting them adrift, and pulled a roller coaster out to sea. The AC Convention Center had several feet of water in it. Our friends with a home in Mystic Island had the ocean completely enter their home up to the level of their bathroom vanity countertop, and threw their hot tub down the street.

We had a few trees down in our town but no flooding and we never lost power. An hour drive inland from a direct hit is a huge difference.

I live in Orlando and have lived through many hurricanes. We still experience downed trees, roof damage, power outages and massive flooding. Everyone lives within a couple miles of a lake.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

For all of you talking about Orlando taking a direct hit from a hurricane, it NEVER does. Orlando is 50 miles from either shore. The coastal towns all take direct hits but an hour inland is much more protected. Not that it can't do damage to someone's home or cause flooding, but it wouldn't be nearly as intense as what they experience on the coast.

We live 55 miles inland from the Jersey shore. When Sandy hit, it lifted homes off their foundations, setting them adrift, and pulled a roller coaster out to sea. The AC Convention Center had several feet of water in it. Our friends with a home in Mystic Island had the ocean completely enter their home up to the level of their bathroom vanity countertop, and threw their hot tub down the street.

We had a few trees down in our town but no flooding and we never lost power. An hour drive inland from a direct hit is a huge difference.

To paraphrase you, either way it’s dealing with a lot of wind lol.

No one was talking about Orlando taking a direct hit, actually what was said the Orlando was the safest city in Florida from a hurricane perspective…it’s clear Eleuthera has more to worry about.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I live in Orlando and have lived through many hurricanes. We still experience downed trees, roof damage, power outages and massive flooding. Everyone lives within a couple miles of a lake.

Believe me, I'm not denying the ability for a hurricane to cause damage inland. My only point is that it's the coast that takes the direct hit and gets the worst damage. Inland areas are somewhat protected.

 

[Mags2002]

If they had enough trams, they could even prohibit walking the pier to avoid the problem entirely. I read reports that you can't walk the other tram route either. So this wouk just extend the mandatory ride if true.

But if two trams can't pass on the pier, that would really slow things down. I'm still skeptical that the pier was narrowed for environmental claims as they stated. I'm sure it saved a ton of money too.

You will eventually be able to either walk or bike ride from the pier if you choose to do so

 

[Mags2002]

I am willing to accept that for environmental reasons, the width of the pier has to be the way it is. However, this leads me to my second point, which @Cheburashka alludes to.


Multiple departments agreed that pier was going to be X wide, and once that decision was made all other departments had to work with that restriction. That's fine. Once that decision was made someone should have given some thought to, "how are we going to make this the best it can possibly be for our guests," and clearly no one did.

Clearly no one thought about what it would like for different types of people who would be walking along the pier. I do not understand why they could not put some super secure benches and some kind of mechanism to create a little shade.


100% this. The real danger is not people who know they have a problem and request a cart. The danger is people who think they will be fine, that it won't be an issue, and then get partway down the pier and realize they made a mistake and overestimated their abilities.

While the golf carts won’t usually stop halfway down to let people on, if someone is having some sort of medical problem/heat stroke etc then of course they will be provided with whatever help they need. If people manage to walk to the island and then think they can’t walk back, ask for help and you will likely be driven back to the ship

 

[anricat]

if someone is having some sort of medical problem/heat stroke etc then of course they will be provided with whatever help they need

I think the point is that it would be nice to not even get to that stage. My friend's perfectly healthy daughter had a heat stroke incident waiting outside in line in the Texas heat last week. What is that saying about an ounce of prevention?

 

[Cheburashka]

While the golf carts won’t usually stop halfway down to let people on, if someone is having some sort of medical problem/heat stroke etc then of course they will be provided with whatever help they need. If people manage to walk to the island and then think they can’t walk back, ask for help and you will likely be driven back to the ship

On a pier among dozens of other people, with no benches to rest on, and full golf carts going past you filled with other guests, that won't be an easy proposition.

How would you even get the golf cart driver's attention? Waving your arms around, calling out or sitting on the ground, so that everyone stares at you? And even when you have their attention, you'd have to explain that you gave out and ask for help in front of strangers. A lot of people will choose to push their bodies too far rather than deal with that level of embarrassment.

 

[anricat]

Likewise, it was determined that the pier could be narrowed, reducing the potential impact on the marine environment by approximately 25 percent.

I mean sure, you reduce the width of the pier by 25% then I suppose, yeah, it's 25% less impactful. Okay, but 25% of...what? Like just how impactful IS 25%? What does that actually mean? How do we measure impact? It's not like we can pull out a yardstick and measure the impact of a structure on the environment.

And with a bit more creative engineering, could it have been slightly wider but still had a similar impact? I find the whole thing baffling, but I suppose I'm not an engineer so I should probably shut up about it. It just seems to be that Disney said, "welp, can't be done! Oh well!"

 

[randumb0]

While the golf carts won’t usually stop halfway down to let people on, if someone is having some sort of medical problem/heat stroke etc then of course they will be provided with whatever help they need. If people manage to walk to the island and then think they can’t walk back, ask for help and you will likely be driven back to the ship

What should someone do in the event that they've started walking but realize they need to rest or realize they can't make it?

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I mean sure, you reduce the width of the pier by 25% then I suppose, yeah, it's 25% less impactful. Okay, but 25% of...what? Like just how impactful IS 25%? What does that actually mean? How do we measure impact? It's not like we can pull out a yardstick and measure the impact of a structure on the environment.

And with a bit more creative engineering, could it have been slightly wider but still had a similar impact? I find the whole thing baffling, but I suppose I'm not an engineer so I should probably shut up about it. It just seems to be that Disney said, "welp, can't be done! Oh well!"

I have wondered that too. It’s the support beams that impact the ocean floor. How much larger would they have been if the strip was 8’ wider?

Sure, the damage is done now but it’s easier to plan ahead and get it right the first time than to make a strip that’s too small and realize later that it needs to be larger.

 

[lanejudy]

A lot of people will choose to push their bodies too far rather than deal with that level of embarrassment.

Let’s not confuse a business’ responsibility to offer accommodations with an individual’s personal responsibility to avail themselves of such accommodation. No entity — DCL or otherwise — is required to make an accommodation instantly available; first aid should respond ASAP but the standard accommodation does not.

It’s my understanding that anyone may ride back to the ship on a golf cart. If someone opts not to take advantage of that, you can’t turn it around and claim DCL is at fault. By that point the individual has traversed the pier once and should be responsible enough to make appropriate decisions for themselves.

In my experience with trams in various locations cannot just be flagged down at any point along a route — maybe it exists but not typical.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

I have wondered that too. It’s the support beams that impact the ocean floor. How much larger would they have been if the strip was 8’ wider?

Sure, the damage is done now but it’s easier to plan ahead and get it right the first time than to make a strip that’s too small and realize later that it needs to be larger.

I mean sure, you reduce the width of the pier by 25% then I suppose, yeah, it's 25% less impactful. Okay, but 25% of...what? Like just how impactful IS 25%? What does that actually mean? How do we measure impact? It's not like we can pull out a yardstick and measure the impact of a structure on the environment.

And with a bit more creative engineering, could it have been slightly wider but still had a similar impact? I find the whole thing baffling, but I suppose I'm not an engineer so I should probably shut up about it. It just seems to be that Disney said, "welp, can't be done! Oh well!"

Why do hippopotamus have short stubby legs? Because volume goes up by the cube, whereas cross section by the area , the impact is not linear but goes up quicker with volume. I am amazed that people think they are smarter than Disney engineers. Plus the impact is not just the columns but on sunlight, coral rely on algae which relies on sunlight.

Disney engineers are not dumb, the issues are multifactorial and more complex than most people here seem to acknowledge or understand.

 

[Cheburashka]

In my experience with trams in various locations cannot just be flagged down at any point along a route — maybe it exists but not typical.

I'm not the one who suggested that people would be able to get a cart mid-pier. I was responding to a different poster who said that. My post described how that would be less than feasible.

Let’s not confuse a business’ responsibility to offer accommodations with an individual’s personal responsibility to avail themselves of such accommodation...It’s my understanding that anyone may ride back to the ship on a golf cart. If someone opts not to take advantage of that, you can’t turn it around and claim DCL is at fault. By that point the individual has traversed the pier once and should be responsible enough to make appropriate decisions for themselves.

A person could get physically overwhelmed in either direction. Also, someone who was able to walk it in the morning might find themselves unable to walk it after a long day when tired and in the much hotter afternoon. This is especially true for people whose main issue is an overall lack of fitness or strength, rather than an injury or other specific disabling condition that they're used to accommodating.

Yes, I'm sure that some people will nevertheless blame the overheated and overwhelmed person for not accurately gauging what their body would be capable of, rather than expecting Disney to have made the general experience more reasonable for people with a wider variety of needs. Some people on this forum will go to any length to defend Disney's poor decisions.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

What should someone do in the event that they've started walking but realize they need to rest or realize they can't make it?

On a pier among dozens of other people, with no benches to rest on, and full golf carts going past you filled with other guests, that won't be an easy proposition.

How would you even get the golf cart driver's attention? Waving your arms around, calling out or sitting on the ground, so that everyone stares at you? And even when you have their attention, you'd have to explain that you gave out and ask for help in front of strangers. A lot of people will choose to push their bodies too far rather than deal with that level of embarrassment.

People should be adult and take responsibility for their own choice. Regardless most people know if they can walk a half mile in the sun. When in doubt, arrange for transport. But if one is really caught by surprise, step to the side and wave down a cast member. I don’t know what Disney people are going to, but the Disney I go to I find the cast members are VERY aware of the guests and trained to look for problems and are quick to give assistance. I admit I don’t run as fast as I used to, and I’m constantly asked by cast members if I need help. Is it embarrassing? Maybe, but if you don’t know if you can walk a half mile, you probably can’t. Same with parents with young children. Your choice. Your decision.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

It amazes me the lengths some people will go to defend Disney's poor decisions.

Surprises others how far people will go to complain.

 

[DCLMP]

Surprises others how far people will go to complain.

The same people that go to WDW and walk 10 miles a day in the heat.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Why do hippopotamus have short stubby legs? Because volume goes up by the cube, whereas cross section by the area , the impact is not linear but goes up quicker with volume. I am amazed that people think they are smarter than Disney engineers. Plus the impact is not just the columns but on sunlight, coral rely on algae which relies on sunlight.

Disney engineers are not dumb, the issues are multifactorial and more complex than most people here seem to acknowledge or understand.

I never once said I was smarter than Disney engineers or that they’re dumb.
Don’t twist my words. I asked the question, how much more of an impact would it cause to have a wider strip? I would think this is very measurable data.

Of course we don’t understand it all; we’re not marine biologists nor bridge engineers. We’re Disney cruise customers with a lot of cruising experience and a lot of choices.
We can see that they’re trying to sell us filet mignon but what we get is chicken drumsticks. They want to market it as an island paradise but if it doesn’t look like paradise, we’re not believing the sales pitch.

DCL standards have taught us to be picky, to notice the small details. Well, yes, now we’re noticing and we don’t have to like it.

I will give it a chance on our next cruise in November. If I don’t like it, I’ll stay on the ship for our April cruise. It will simply be another stop besides Nassau where we get to enjoy a near empty ship.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

The same people that go to WDW and walk 10 miles a day in the heat.

I think the point was made earlier that in WDW there are plenty of places to stop and rest or have some diversion along the way such as rides, entertainment, restaurants, drinks, snacks, shopping, etc. Guests are still having fun while walking.

I have no problem myself doing this walk. I don’t have a desk job and a typical day at work is 8000+ steps but I can be compassionate for those who would have a hard time, for whatever reason.

 

[brentm77]

Why do hippopotamus have short stubby legs? Because volume goes up by the cube, whereas cross section by the area , the impact is not linear but goes up quicker with volume. I am amazed that people think they are smarter than Disney engineers. Plus the impact is not just the columns but on sunlight, coral rely on algae which relies on sunlight.

Disney engineers are not dumb, the issues are multifactorial and more complex than most people here seem to acknowledge or understand.

It's not a question of being smarter, it is a question of taking marketing speak as gospel. You trust a 90 billion dollar a year corporation to be 100% honest when explaining why something was done and not put a friendly spin on it when it is an inferior guest experience? Now that surprises me.

Its reasonable to assume that the more narrow the structure being built, the less money it costs Disney. Surely that would be a factor, but not one the marketing department is going to mention.

It is very possible it has less of an impact, but as someone else said, saying "25%" is meaningless without more information. By what measure? 25% of what? Could a different, more expensive design, also reduce the impact while keeping a wider pier? We simply don't know and will never know. But it's interesting discuss for some of us. I have no reason to trust that Disney spared no expense to make the guest experience great on the pier, since other companies have done better by at least providing shade.

The bottom line is that this clearly isn't the customer-friendly, relaxing island experience, many people are looking for. As I said before, I much prefer this to tendering, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a better way to do it and still be aware of the impact on the environment. The walk would be ok for me, but I don't know that I would take my 70 year old mother to this island, even though she did great on Castaway.