Lookout Cay long pier.

[Lucien Franciosa]

Not sure what your issue is. If there is problem, Disney will find a fix. Tendering is as much a part of cruising as the muster drill. It could be an option. And that's a fact.

I suppose my issue is that I hate to see missinformation and ill conceived thoughts tossed out as ‘Disney should have done this.’ When asking the question why not tendering at lookout cay, a valid approach is to ask what the tendering experience is with an existing system on the same island. That’s more meaningful than what the tendering experience is at some other place like st. Martin. What is practical varies with geography.

But I get why bring in reality to a discussion.

 

[tvguy]

I suppose my issue is that I hate to see missinformation and ill conceived thoughts tossed out as ‘Disney should have done this.’ When asking the question why not tendering at lookout cay, a valid approach is to ask what the tendering experience is with an existing system on the same island. That’s more meaningful than what the tendering experience is at some other place like st. Martin. What is practical varies with geography.

But I get why bring in reality to a discussion.

I don't know the terrain, so yes, you are correct, it may not be possible to tender. Or Disney could modify the terrain like they did at Castaway Cay by digging a channel so the ship could dock. In this case, to make tendering possible is that is an option being considered.
They are just a few weeks into actual use of the new facility, so IMHO every option is still on the table.
I NEVER said Disney should have done this, I said the COULD.

EDIT: Looking at Google satellite view, there is a Marina next to where the pedestrian bridge reaches land, so to the casual observer
tendering looks like a reasonable option.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

I applaud silly. Means someone is ready intent and not just preconceived thinking.

Really, safest city in FL? Is this mainly based on weather issues? It does have the advantage of being further inland than ?possibly any other large city in the state. I need to feed my daily trivia intake.

How well do the support structures do in wind? I saw video of wind turbines snapping this spring as tornadoes went through OK or IA. I digress…

My work relies on ignoring preconceived thinking…so yes safest city in Florida but you’re right thats restricted to hurricane threats. As far as turbine snapping in tornadoes goes (I saw the same videos) I will remind you turbines are designed to catch the wind and be light so a bit more vulnerable that steel support structures made of low profile beams.

 

[Mags2002]

Disney decided against tendering and went with the pier. They will not now go back to tendering instead. There are currently options for those not able to walk to the island. It is not perfect but for most people it is doable

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

I don't know the terrain, so yes, you are correct, it may not be possible to tender. Or Disney could modify the terrain like they did at Castaway Cay by digging a channel so the ship could dock. In this case, to make tendering possible is that is an option being considered.
They are just a few weeks into actual use of the new facility, so IMHO every option is still on the table.
I NEVER said Disney should have done this, I said the COULD.

So Disney made it quite clear dredging a channel was not an option due to environmental restrictions placed on them by the island government. Just not on the table. Again google is our friend there is a whole public Disney environmental impact presentation given to the island government when this thing started.

As I have said my interest is in short term remedies, not something a decade or more out, so that means discussing options that can work within existing infrastructure, which is a relatively narrow 17 foot or so pier. My apologies if that is seen as being anit Disney or something. I believe Disney imagineers are very talented and if this is what they came up with in the face of the dubious distinction of being one of the longest cruise ship piers (you know they study the competition), then it’s the best they thought they could do. Any near term changes will be minor.

 

[tvguy]

So Disney made it quite clear dredging a channel was not an option due to environmental restrictions placed on them by the island government. Just not on the table. Again google is our friend there is a whole public Disney environmental impact presentation given to the island government when this thing started.

As I have said my interest is in short term remedies, not something a decade or more out, so that means discussing options that can work within existing infrastructure, which is a relatively narrow 17 foot or so pier. My apologies if that is seen as being anit Disney or something. I believe Disney imagineers are very talented and if this is what they came up with in the face of the dubious distinction of being one of the longest cruise ship piers (you know they study the competition), then it’s the best they thought they could do. Any near term changes will be minor.

And like I noted in my edit to my last post, they did build a marina too. So tendering could be a short term remedy, as they have a place for the tenders to dock.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

EDIT: Looking at Google satellite view, there is a Marina next to where the pedestrian bridge reaches land, so to the casual observer
tendering looks like a reasonable option.

So I guess I’m not a casual observer. In boat design one parameter is draft, or the depth a boat is submerged. This limits how close to the shore, or coral reefs, a boat can get … and of course that is impacted by tides too. The draft of a pleasure boat carrying 5 or 6 passengers is a couple of feet. The draft of a much larger tender capable of carrying 200 people with a rolling ramp for the handicapped is more like 8 feet. The draft of a cruise ship is like 30, so yeah the presence of a small vessel marina implies nothing about the ability to tender, unless of course you are tendering in a zodiac that carries 8 people…. Like they do at the Galapagos.. but those cruise ships carry 150 passengers.

But all this hypothetical discussion while interesting is ultimately superseded by the existing real life example of princess cay. Which isn’t pretty and really does (for me) explain why Disney built a pier. It’s quicker, easier, safer, operates more frequently and is handicap accessible with golf carts. I do hope and expect in years to come they will install some shade.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

And like I noted in my edit to my last post, they did build a marina too. So tendering could be a short term remedy, as they have a place for the tenders to dock.

I’ve answered the marina question. So let me ask you, do you ever use templates off the web for anything? You can work off what some professional has already put together. Likewise , when discussing tendering at eleuthra, just start with the princess cay template. It’s a five minute read and will turn most to pier supporters. Anyway, good night.

Edit. Okay ignore me, but the next tender you get off, check out the water depth.

 

[Kwami]

But they already impacted the environment by building a huge long pier and pulling a giant cruise ship into it (which aren't exactly the most environmentally friendly things). Would building the pier ever so slightly wider to accommodate a slightly larger vehicle that can carry more than one or two people at a time have been that much more impactful? There aren't that many people that require an accommodation so really you don't need to be able to fit a huge vehicle, just something larger than a golf cart that can more efficiently carry everyone that needs assistance without a huge queue.

From Disney's FAQ about the project:

"Based on EIA findings, DCL has continued to evolve the project’s design. For example, surveys identified a number of protected trees and some cultural ruins in the northwest area of the property. As a result, the structures originally planned for that area have been relocated to the eastern side of the property. Additionally, when bird surveys identified a small wintering population of endangered piping plovers at a location along the southern shore of the property, the design was adjusted to avoid that area. Likewise, it was determined that the pier could be narrowed, reducing the potential impact on the marine environment by approximately 25 percent."

(Emphasis mine.)

 

[kiford]

Or Disney could modify the terrain like they did at Castaway Cay by digging a channel so the ship could dock.

Disney could modify the terrain like they did at Castaway Cay by digging a channel so the ship could dock if the Bahamian government and the local Eleutran government would permit it. Which they obviously didn't. So, no, they couldn't modify the terrain by digging a channel.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Don’t have to go, google is our friend, that boardwalk is twice the width of the pier and the tram is half the width. Not comparable at all.

Either way you have a driven vehicle trying to navigate through a crowd of pedestrians who may not be aware that it’s approaching from behind.

 

[lanejudy]

Either way you have a driven vehicle trying to navigate through a crowd of pedestrians who may not be aware that it’s approaching from behind.

And a constant “watch the tram car please”

 

[Cheburashka]

Is Light House at any higher risk than Castaway from an exposure standpoint?

No. Abaco is very close to Castaway, and a few years ago was decimated by a hurricane that just grazed Castaway. DCL got lucky.

The quality difference between the building designs of Castaway and Lookout is due to the fact that Disney is now hyperfocused on minimizing investments into the guest experience, and they weren't when Castaway was designed and developed.

 

[Henlady]

ummmmmm ever hear of a park called disneyworld? Has a skyline and sits in a hurricane zone? lol. sorry... could not resist.

And if it starts storming, ie thunder/lightening or heavy rain the skyliner STOPS. The people in cars are left hanging and swaying on the line. I know because I have been
“privileged “ to be on in such an instance. Not a pleasant feeling.

 

[tvguy]

Disney could modify the terrain like they did at Castaway Cay by digging a channel so the ship could dock if the Bahamian government and the local Eleutran government would permit it. Which they obviously didn't. So, no, they couldn't modify the terrain by digging a channel.

Correct. Although, let's be honest, that long a pier did a lot to the sea floor. I am amazed that got approved.

 

[insureman]

Correct. Although, let's be honest, that long a pier did a lot to the sea floor. I am amazed that got approved.

See my "big bag of cash" comment.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

And a constant “watch the tram car please”

And that is worse than people feeling dizzy and exhausted in the heat? There are plenty of grandparents onboard with the potential to have a heart attack from overdoing it in the heat.

 

[brentm77]

And that is worse than people feeling dizzy and exhausted in the heat? There are plenty of grandparents onboard with the potential to have a heart attack from overdoing it in the heat.

If they had enough trams, they could even prohibit walking the pier to avoid the problem entirely. I read reports that you can't walk the other tram route either. So this wouk just extend the mandatory ride if true.

But if two trams can't pass on the pier, that would really slow things down. I'm still skeptical that the pier was narrowed for environmental claims as they stated. I'm sure it saved a ton of money too.

 

[Kit Jackson]

Likewise, it was determined that the pier could be narrowed, reducing the potential impact on the marine environment by approximately 25 percent."

I am willing to accept that for environmental reasons, the width of the pier has to be the way it is. However, this leads me to my second point, which @Cheburashka alludes to.

The quality difference between the building designs of Castaway and Lookout is due to the fact that Disney is now hyperfocused on minimizing investments into the guest experience, and they weren't when Castaway was designed and developed.

Multiple departments agreed that pier was going to be X wide, and once that decision was made all other departments had to work with that restriction. That's fine. Once that decision was made someone should have given some thought to, "how are we going to make this the best it can possibly be for our guests," and clearly no one did.

Clearly no one thought about what it would like for different types of people who would be walking along the pier. I do not understand why they could not put some super secure benches and some kind of mechanism to create a little shade.

And that is worse than people feeling dizzy and exhausted in the heat? There are plenty of grandparents onboard with the potential to have a heart attack from overdoing it in the heat.

100% this. The real danger is not people who know they have a problem and request a cart. The danger is people who think they will be fine, that it won't be an issue, and then get partway down the pier and realize they made a mistake and overestimated their abilities.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

For all of you talking about Orlando taking a direct hit from a hurricane, it NEVER does. Orlando is 50 miles from either shore. The coastal towns all take direct hits but an hour inland is much more protected. Not that it can't do damage to someone's home or cause flooding, but it wouldn't be nearly as intense as what they experience on the coast.

We live 55 miles inland from the Jersey shore. When Sandy hit, it lifted homes off their foundations, setting them adrift, and pulled a roller coaster out to sea. The AC Convention Center had several feet of water in it. Our friends with a home in Mystic Island had the ocean completely enter their home up to the level of their bathroom vanity countertop, and threw their hot tub down the street.

We had a few trees down in our town but no flooding and we never lost power. An hour drive inland from a direct hit is a huge difference.