Lookout Cay long pier.

[Kwami]

Yeah. I'm sure that Disney is going to make you walk through the gauntlet, hoping that you don't die before you get back to the ship. That sounds right.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

Disney has solved bigger problems. They were running that big box truck whose picture I posted with people walking on the first stop, so I think your photoshop has that full size Ford van tram much bigger than it really is. Not sure why the entire tram has to turn around. Just unhitch the tug pulling it, have the tug turn around and hitch up to the back of the passenger trailers. But, my first statement really sums it up, Disney has solved bigger problems.

So how wide do you think that pier is? How wide do you think the tram is? Look at the height of the people standing right by the tram before saying it’s not the correct size. It’s not smaller than people. I stand by my numbers. The tram they currently run will not work on a routine basis. If Disney could have installed a tram they would have, how stupid do you think these great problem solvers are?

I saw your picture, running one box truck on opening day once with few people is not the same as routine operation 50 times a day with crowds.

Disney solves problems before the fact, not after.

Not saying Disney won’t implement changes, just saying running a full size tram isn’t going to be one of them

 

[serrem2]

Kwami -- that's my point. I don't think Disney will do this. They're very careful in every other venue to ensure guests' safety during thunderstorms. But now we have a new venue that is very exposed. I hope and trust that they will take the appropriate actions to keep us safe, even if it means delaying departures. It would just be nice to get assurances from them in advance that this is how they will handle such a situation.

 

[tvguy]

So how wide do you think that pier is? How wide do you think the tram is? Look at the height of the people standing right by the tram before saying it’s not the correct size. It’s not smaller than people. I stand by my numbers. The tram they currently run will not work on a routine basis. If Disney could have installed a tram they would have, how stupid do you think these great problem solvers are?

I saw your picture, running one box truck on opening day once with few people is not the same as routine operation 50 times a day with crowds.

Disney solves problems before the fact, not after.

Not saying Disney won’t implement changes, just saying running a full size tram isn’t going to be one of them

If it is a problem, they will work it out. Not sure why they just don't tender folks in. No need to worry about trams then or traffic on the bridge. .
Oh man, you are kidding?!? "Disney solves problems before the fact, not after" They had to spend over One Billion dollars fixing all the mistakes at California Adventure. Or at Walt Disney World, not having a pedestrian path to the Grand Floridian Hotel from the Magic Kingdom. That only took 30 years!

 

[Mags2002]

If it is a problem, they will work it out. Not sure why they just don't tender folks in. No need to worry about trams then or traffic on the bridge. .
Oh man, you are kidding?!? "Disney solves problems before the fact, not after" They had to spend over One Billion dollars fixing all the mistakes at California Adventure. Or at Walt Disney World, not having a pedestrian path to the Grand Floridian Hotel from the Magic Kingdom. That only took 30 years!

Tendering would be even worse than the pier

 

[Cheburashka]

I don't think Disney will do this. They're very careful in every other venue to ensure guests' safety during thunderstorms. But now we have a new venue that is very exposed.

I haven't found this to be true. At Disney's theme parks, water parks and resorts during electrical storms, they pause outdoor rides, close pools and require CMs to stay under cover. They do not restrict or even formally advise guests from going out in the open or make any special safety provisions for guests who are outside during the storms.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

If it is a problem, they will work it out. Not sure why they just don't tender folks in. No need to worry about trams then or traffic on the bridge. .
Oh man, you are kidding?!? "Disney solves problems before the fact, not after" They had to spend over One Billion dollars fixing all the mistakes at California Adventure. Or at Walt Disney World, not having a pedestrian path to the Grand Floridian Hotel from the Magic Kingdom. That only took 30 years!

I was addressing your comments regarding a fill time full size tram on the pier... but let's move the goal posts and bring up Tenders. I hate speculating but in this case we don't need to. Right there around the coast, same island, is Princess Cruise's 'Princess Cay.' They opened 30 years ago, and do tender. What has their experience been?

1) they use their own lifeboat with limited seating... no dedicated tender (likely due to cost). So getting off the boat is a slow process of staggered timing. Not as quick as the disney pier.

2) returning to the boat can take up to 1.5 hours of waiting because of the limited throughput and everyone rushing at the end. So not as quick as the disney pier. Princess does a poor job of this, making people stand in the sun, presumably disney could improve on the waiting environment.

3) 50% of the island stops are canceled because the seas are too rough for their tender. This would not prevent actual docking, tender boats are smaller. Rough seas does not mean the pier has to be closed.

4) Their tender does not permit roll on wheelchairs, or for people to be carried on to the tender, so their stop is not handicap accessible. another plus for the pier.

so to sum up, we dont have to guess, what does tender operation for the last 30 years at Lighthouse Point look like? 1) slower access times than Disney's pier, 2) 50% of the time it doesnt work at all, 3) and not handicap accessible.

It appears tenders come with their own problems and people would be complaining about them.

but sure you say, look at the tender service at grand cayman, these can be addressed by larger tenders, more tenders, and roll on ramps for the handicapped. maybe. but certainly at great cost.

but the tender service at GC is not owned by disney. it is a local operation that services multiple cruiselines. hence, economy of scale, thy can reduce costs. and they can be larger with roll on operation because even in the port itself the water is not that shallow (the bigger the boat, the bigger the draft normally) and does not have coral reefs right there, it was dredged in the past. I know this because I taught my sons how to scuba dive there decades ago. So the situation at GC is not comparable to LC.

I don't like the pier. But I respect the imagineers are not idiots, they knew in advance a half mile walk in the sun was not optimal. so they made design decisions based on realistic parameters of throughput, regulation, stability, and cost. I imagine they will make improvements, I hope they do, but its just not as simple as some would wave their hands and say.

and sure okay if your timeline is 30 years, then yes, who knows what they can do in that timeframe to improve things. hovercraft? (joking). But I dont have 30 years to wait, so I look to more immediate alternatives, and to me thats mostly improving the golf cart service.

 

[tvguy]

I was addressing your comments regarding a fill time full size tram on the pier... but let's move the goal posts and bring up Tenders. I hate speculating but in this case we don't need to. Right there around the coast, same island, is Princess Cruise's 'Princess Cay.' They opened 30 years ago, and do tender. What has their experience been?

1) they use their own lifeboat with limited seating... no dedicated tender (likely due to cost). So getting off the boat is a slow process of staggered timing. Not as quick as the disney pier.

2) returning to the boat can take up to 1.5 hours of waiting because of the limited throughput and everyone rushing at the end. So not as quick as the disney pier. Princess does a poor job of this, making people stand in the sun, presumably disney could improve on the waiting environment.

3) 50% of the island stops are canceled because the seas are too rough for their tender. This would not prevent actual docking, tender boats are smaller. Rough seas does not mean the pier has to be closed.

4) Their tender does not permit roll on wheelchairs, or for people to be carried on to the tender, so their stop is not handicap accessible. another plus for the pier.

so to sum up, we dont have to guess, what does tender operation for the last 30 years at Lighthouse Point look like? 1) slower access times than Disney's pier, 2) 50% of the time it doesnt work at all, 3) and not handicap accessible.

It appears tenders come with their own problems and people would be complaining about them.

but sure you say, look at the tender service at grand cayman, these can be addressed by larger tenders, more tenders, and roll on ramps for the handicapped. maybe. but certainly at great cost.

but the tender service at GC is not owned by disney. it is a local operation that services multiple cruiselines. hence, economy of scale, thy can reduce costs. and they can be larger with roll on operation because even in the port itself the water is not that shallow (the bigger the boat, the bigger the draft normally) and does not have coral reefs right there, it was dredged in the past. I know this because I taught my sons how to scuba dive there decades ago. So the situation at GC is not comparable to LC.

I don't like the pier. But I respect the imagineers are not idiots, they knew in advance a half mile walk in the sun was not optimal. so they made design decisions based on realistic parameters of throughput, regulation, stability, and cost. I imagine they will make improvements, I hope they do, but its just not as simple as some would wave their hands and say.

and sure okay if your timeline is 30 years, then yes, who knows what they can do in that timeframe to improve things. hovercraft? (joking). But I dont have 30 years to wait, so I look to more immediate alternatives, and to me thats mostly improving the golf cart service.

I guess we'll see. If it IS a problem for enough people, something has to happen. Best I can recall, every cruise I have taken has had one "tender" port and tenders were never an issue.

 

[tvguy]

Tendering would be even worse than the pier

Well, let's hope the Disney Imagineers have a solution.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

I guess we'll see. If it IS a problem for enough people, something has to happen. Best I can recall, every cruise I have taken has had one "tender" port and tenders were never an issue.

I invite you to google Princess Cay tenders, will be enlightening. as I pointed out, even tendering has practical limits and design constraints that may not be accommodated by the specific terrain at Lighthout point.

It's sort like saying mountain inclines aren't a problem for roads because every highway you have been on has been fine. well of course. it was built in a place that could accommodate.

 

[00seven]

This would be an excellent opportunity for a new monorail line or better yet a Skyliner that would bring right to the action, because the 15 minutes tram ride is awfully dusty.

 

[OKW Lover]

Amused by the tender suggestion. Tenders often make it more difficult for those with mobility issues, not less.

 

[Kwami]

Amused by the tender suggestion. Tenders often make it more difficult for those with mobility issues, not less.

And they take forever once you consider waiting time.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

Amused by the tender suggestion. Tenders often make it more difficult for those with mobility issues, not less.

And they take forever once you consider waiting time.

succinctly put, I could learn from you folks!

 

[Sleepyluke]

Tendering would be even worse than the pier

I think this is an obvious but exact alternative. With the distance, they have no other choice than a long pier if they don't want to tender. I guess it could be Small World 2, with music on repeat.

That would have everyone mad because their boat ride was bumpy...

Yes it is long, yes it is concrete, but not many other ways to get you on the island. And from what I have read, even tough it looks terrible, almost the same length as getting the CC trams, and I honestly don't think I have ever read of anyone complaining about that walk. Provisions for those that can't walk it are being made, I am not sure what else they can do?

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

With the distance, they have no other choice than a long pier if they don't want to tender. I guess it could be Small World 2, with music on repeat.

on first read I took you literally, can you imagine how much fun it would be if they made it an elevated log flume ride to the shore? yes I am not being serious, but still!

 

[auntlynne]

This would be an excellent opportunity for a new monorail line or better yet a Skyliner that would bring right to the action, because the 15 minutes tram ride is awfully dusty.

A Skyliner infrastructure in the Hurricane Zone. I’ll take my chances with walking.

 

[TeamRiley]

It seems odd to me that this is even a discussion. Disney worked with the Government there. There is a long history of ship docking and access to draw from. The entire point of this new island is to be more in tune environmentally.
The level of entitlement from some Disney guests seems to be creeping higher and higher. There are some places in the world that not every single person will be able to go.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

A Skyliner infrastructure in the Hurricane Zone. I’ll take my chances with walking.

ummmmmm ever hear of a park called disneyworld? Has a skyline and sits in a hurricane zone? lol. sorry... could not resist.

 

[auntlynne]

ummmmmm ever hear of a park called disneyworld? Has a skyline and sits in a hurricane zone? lol. sorry... could not resist.

I thought the same thing. But then thought of how few times, if any, WDW has taken the full force of a hurricane. Especially considered against the wipeout Great Abaco suffered. And Lighthouse Point is right there on the Atlantic.

And so I hit Post reply.