Lookout Cay long pier.

[Love4Eeyore]

Sorry to hear that. Out of curiosity, was this the preview cruise? That first time they stopped the golf carts were restricted however processes were changed after that, maybe even for the 2nd stop.

The process now is to request a golf cart TO the island in the morning, stop by Guest Services the day prior. Golf carts are available to anyone for the RETURN to the ship in the afternoon.

oop! I see Mags2002 replied the same info

This was during the first stop on the inaugural. She felt too embarrassed to be turned down again to try and sign up for the second stop there.

I am very glad to hear they have since opened the golf carts to all though!

 

[Love4Eeyore]

Erin from the Entertainment Cast on the Magic? If so, she’s awesome!

Sorry. Erin at GS on the Fantasy. I'm sure Erin on the Magic is awesome too! Maybe we'll get a chance to meet her in '26 on the WBPC!

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

Correct, at the end of the day. DM was struggling to walk after the tram. We weren't cabana guests, concierge, or anyone special. She doesn't use a scooter or anything, and appears pretty fit for her age. So, we were told they weren't for us . After that, she wouldn't try to sign up for the second stop. The CM at GS said she was sorry for that as she typed our complaints and canceled our excursions for the second stop, but that has been it. Emails and calls after, and still zero apologies from Disney. Just the canned "Thanks for your feedback" response.

Originally they were not allowing just anyone to get a ride on the way back but this has since changed

Sorry to hear that. Out of curiosity, was this the preview cruise? That first time they stopped the golf carts were restricted however processes were changed after that, maybe even for the 2nd stop.

The process now is to request a golf cart TO the island in the morning, stop by Guest Services the day prior. Golf carts are available to anyone for the RETURN to the ship in the afternoon.

oop! I see Mags2002 replied the same info

Thank you. That one CM was very nice and understanding about everything. She personally had a gift sent to DS for his missed birthday, even though it was on our res. Totally made his day! Erin definitely got a compliment from us!

thank you... this is exactly the exchange of information that I love about these boards, that helps guide us through our own experiences and how to optimize them. I apologize when I lose patience with the 50'th negative statement based on no direct experience or broad hand waving of 'Disney needs to do this.'

I am looking forward to my own visit to LC in September, and this helps me plan accordingly.

 

[Sleepyluke]

From Disney's FAQ about the project:

"Based on EIA findings, DCL has continued to evolve the project’s design. For example, surveys identified a number of protected trees and some cultural ruins in the northwest area of the property. As a result, the structures originally planned for that area have been relocated to the eastern side of the property. Additionally, when bird surveys identified a small wintering population of endangered piping plovers at a location along the southern shore of the property, the design was adjusted to avoid that area. Likewise, it was determined that the pier could be narrowed, reducing the potential impact on the marine environment by approximately 25 percent."

(Emphasis mine.)

This is the answer I want driving your research project. Impact of the pier 25%, overall to the project, probably .01%. Changing from a 4 post pier to 3 is a reduction of 25%. Very minimal to the island and make a good talking point, but in reality does nothing.

That is the media department spin, not an environmental accomplishment.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

This is the answer I want driving your research project. Impact of the pier 25%, overall to the project, probably .01%. Changing from a 4 post pier to 3 is a reduction of 25%. Very minimal to the island and make a good talking point, but in reality does nothing.

That is the media department spin, not an environmental accomplishment.

A million here, a million there, pretty soon you are talking real money. How did you calculate 0.01%? Just curious, I mean it sounds like something someone in marketing would say if they want to minimize impact, but the reality is one can apply that line of reasoning to make zero changes and accomplish nothing. And you can only change from a four post tier to a three post tier if you increase the area of the 3 post to compensate, often more than if you had 4 posts. Less does not always equal less, otherwise you could have a bridge with infinite span and no posts.

And regardless, the reality is Disney's reduction by 25% DID have a HUGE impact, it got the project approved.

 

[DCLMP]

Why does the bridge need to big bigger? What am I missing?

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

Why does the bridge need to big bigger? What am I missing?

There is the notion, with some basis in reality, that a wider bridge would be able to accommodate a tram. it would not be just a bit wider though, the operating tram on a pier referenced here by another poster as the ideal model, is a pier that is more than twice the width of the one at LC and it's tram is half the width, but the concept remains . just isnt very practical.

 

[DCLMP]

There is the notion, with some basis in reality, that a wider bridge would be able to accommodate a tram. it would not be just a bit wider though, the operating tram on a pier referenced here by another poster as the ideal model, is a pier that is more than twice the width of the one at LC and it's tram is half the width, but the concept remains . just isnt very practical.

Disney doesn't own the island. I'm sure they are limited to what they can and cannot do.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

look at CARNIVALS island that’s upcoming they at least thought to shade their pier…what was Disney thinking…

 

[Sleepyluke]

A million here, a million there, pretty soon you are talking real money. How did you calculate 0.01%? Just curious, I mean it sounds like something someone in marketing would say if they want to minimize impact, but the reality is one can apply that line of reasoning to make zero changes and accomplish nothing. And you can only change from a four post tier to a three post tier if you increase the area of the 3 post to compensate, often more than if you had 4 posts. Less does not always equal less, otherwise you could have a bridge with infinite span and no posts.

And regardless, the reality is Disney's reduction by 25% DID have a HUGE impact, it got the project approved.

I did not actually calculate it (exaggerated sure, but it is no where near a 25% overall savings), but going from experience of looking at large projects, this is one of numerous concessions both ways to get it done. The fact that it is put out like this is for PR and PR only.

I didn't mean to actually argue and hope you did not take it that way. And you are 1005 right, a million here and there is real money, just like the shade sails that could have been there. $100,000 is not much in the grand scheme of things, but 10 different $100,000 cuts is another million saved. Was it a cut, was it an oversight, was it truly environmental, I don't know, and most likely no one on this board does, but it is just something else that has hit guests wrong, and right now I feel like DCL needs a little more of the feel good magic of old DCL....

 

[insureman]

Sorry to hear that. Out of curiosity, was this the preview cruise? That first time they stopped the golf carts were restricted however processes were changed after that, maybe even for the 2nd stop.

The process now is to request a golf cart TO the island in the morning, stop by Guest Services the day prior. Golf carts are available to anyone for the RETURN to the ship in the afternoon.

oop! I see Mags2002 replied the same info

Reserve a cart after concierge and cabana families have been taken care of. My point is you shouldn't have to reserve a way to get to the island if it was properly engineered to begin with. If not this island maybe another island.

 

[insureman]

Lookout Cay



RCCL Coco Cay

 

[Kwami]

Different island, different rules, different environmental commitments.

 

[Lucien Franciosa]

Lookout Cay

View attachment 872712

RCCL Coco Cay


View attachment 872713

Right. We get it, Lookout Cay is not Coco Cay with ears! a more relevant picture for comparison of what could be at Eleuthera would be of Princess Cay right around the corner so to speak..



note the absence of a dock for the ship...

now ready to have you mind blown? Princess cruise folks are jealous of Disney's pier! Seems they are not fans of tenders.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com.au/topic/2922626-eleuthera-island-princess-cays-expansion/

I guess just goes to show, can't please everyone.

 

[DCLMP]

Lookout Cay

View attachment 872712

RCCL Coco Cay


View attachment 872713

What is the depth of the water. I’m sure that has something to do with it.

 

[insureman]

Different island, different rules, different environmental commitments.

That was one of my points. Why not another island? Coco Cay is also in the Bahamas and Royal Caribbean got it done.

 

[Kwami]

That was one of my points. Why not another island? Coco Cay is also in the Bahamas and Royal Caribbean got it done.

Disney looked at at least two other islands and dismissed them because the environmental impact of developing them would be too great.

Ultimately, there are only so many developable islands in the Bahamas.

 

[schepp]

Expectations… They seem to never be met. Disney said they were building a different type of resort focusing on the environment and culture of Eleuthera yet it appears many ignored this and decided Disney was building Castaway Cay II instead and got upset when it did not meet their expectations.

The days of buying a private island in the Caribbean and building what you want are long gone. Disney looked at 5 other locations in the Caribbean and all were ruled out because of environmental impacts and or not good for cruise operations.

Disney built a beach resort with a very nice beach, food facilities, and some entertainment and charges you nothing extra. It is the same type of beach facility that people can’t wait to pay several hundred dollars on an excursion to the same thing in any other Caribbean or Mexican port.



After reviewing the Environmental Impact Assessment report (500+ pages), one would learn that the distance for the open-trestle pier from the land was determined by the need to have at least 35’ of clear ocean depth for the ships to dock in. Anchoring offshore, with tendering passengers to the site was also rejected due to safety concerns and the limited anchoring areas available that would not impact environmentally sensitive offshore habitats.



The width of the open-trestle pier introduces seabed shading which affects the ocean floor habitat. With the trestle height of 20’ above MSL a 35’ wide shadow on each side of the trestle is created (wider trestle-wider shadow, more damage to habitat). Shading associated with piers has been documented to negatively impact fish community structure and function by influencing fish movement and migration (Hair and Bell, 1992) and foraging, particularly for fish species that are sight-dependent feeders (Bulleri, Chapman & Underwood, 2004).



So, while 25% may be a rounded number that the communications group wants to use, there is a real impact by everything they do. Sure, the project was behind schedule and not completed when the media cruise arrived. It will get finished over the next few months, vegetation will grow and fill out like Castaway Cay, flies will go the way of the dodo, and a year from now folks will want to go Lookout Cay.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Expectations… They seem to never be met. Disney said they were building a different type of resort focusing on the environment and culture of Eleuthera yet it appears many ignored this and decided Disney was building Castaway Cay II instead and got upset when it did not meet their expectations.

The days of buying a private island in the Caribbean and building what you want are long gone. Disney looked at 5 other locations in the Caribbean and all were ruled out because of environmental impacts and or not good for cruise operations.

Disney built a beach resort with a very nice beach, food facilities, and some entertainment and charges you nothing extra. It is the same type of beach facility that people can’t wait to pay several hundred dollars on an excursion to the same thing in any other Caribbean or Mexican port.



After reviewing the Environmental Impact Assessment report (500+ pages), one would learn that the distance for the open-trestle pier from the land was determined by the need to have at least 35’ of clear ocean depth for the ships to dock in. Anchoring offshore, with tendering passengers to the site was also rejected due to safety concerns and the limited anchoring areas available that would not impact environmentally sensitive offshore habitats.



The width of the open-trestle pier introduces seabed shading which affects the ocean floor habitat. With the trestle height of 20’ above MSL a 35’ wide shadow on each side of the trestle is created (wider trestle-wider shadow, more damage to habitat). Shading associated with piers has been documented to negatively impact fish community structure and function by influencing fish movement and migration (Hair and Bell, 1992) and foraging, particularly for fish species that are sight-dependent feeders (Bulleri, Chapman & Underwood, 2004).



So, while 25% may be a rounded number that the communications group wants to use, there is a real impact by everything they do. Sure, the project was behind schedule and not completed when the media cruise arrived. It will get finished over the next few months, vegetation will grow and fill out like Castaway Cay, flies will go the way of the dodo, and a year from now folks will want to go Lookout Cay.

Expectations are if I choose to sail with Disney, I’m getting unique Disney experience not a nature experience. This talk about not buying an island doing anything you want is garbage. Recently, Carnival and other cruise lines have bought their own islands, focusing on exclusive and luxurious experiences for their guests. Disney could have done the same, investing in a private island to create a unique Disney-themed paradise. However, they chose to focus on nature preservation instead.

While I understand this decision if they had an audience passionate about environmental conservation, it seems misaligned with their core audience. Disney fans are drawn to the magic and wonder of Disney's unique brand, not necessarily nature preservation. Also this wonderful bohemian culture that Disney is emphasizing on everyone stays on the ship most days when it’s ported in the Bahamas.

 

[DisneyPrince22]

Expectations are if I choose to sail with Disney, I’m getting unique Disney experience not a nature experience. This talk about not buying an island doing anything you want is garbage. Recently, Carnival and other cruise lines have bought their own islands, focusing on exclusive and luxurious experiences for their guests. Disney could have done the same, investing in a private island to create a unique Disney-themed paradise. However, they chose to focus on nature preservation instead.

While I understand this decision if they had an audience passionate about environmental conservation, it seems misaligned with their core audience. Disney fans are drawn to the magic and wonder of Disney's unique brand, not necessarily nature preservation. Also this wonderful bohemian culture that Disney is emphasizing on everyone stays on the ship most days when it’s ported in the Bahamas.

If only Disney had a private island…