Logic behind Best Rate Program

[C.Ann]

Just want to reply to Pam's post... people are calling Disney daily not only to check on discounts but also to try to get answers and correct information. I find it incredible that a business of such magnitude cannot properly train their employees to provide accurate, consistent, up-to-date information and facts. Most of us know that you can call 3 times a day, talk with 3 different CMs, and be told 3 different things. I always find that I am left wondering when I hang up the phone and that just shouldn't be. And this is not a blast at those working in CRO. There are many wonderful, outstanding CMs. The system is just deeply flawed, and because of that, Disney is making it necessary for guests to be calling and calling.

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I agree 100%.. If anything, there are probably receiving more calls now because their most recent changes have been so poorly planned and poorly executed.. Very unprofessional..

 

[frannn]

Maybe they are just trying to streamline AP reservations, with less live CRO interaction, and will supplement this program with regular AP call in discounts. If this program saves them more administrative costs than they will pay out in discounts, it will stay. If rooms are not full, there is the possibility for them to release regular, old-fashioned AP rates. My gripe is that this program was bookable a week or so after my reservation dates, so I didn't even have the option of utilizing. Since it is believed that AP call in rates will not be as discounted as Best Rates, I doubt the first portion of Oct will have a great AP rate for call ins. Any discount is better than none, though, so I'll take it!
BTW-I don't think Disney is looking to use this program to lessen the # of AP holders. They are offering sweet deals to the general public (free dining), which will cause AP holders to question renewal of their passes. They are offering the DDE perk to APers, though, even after this free dining ends. We buy APs because we can get two trips (over 2 years) out of them. The merchandise discount is great, but I bet I buy more because of it. Disney is smart that way....

 

[Zip-a-dee-dude-da]

Look im not trying to insult AP holders and I dont have a link to Disney Statisitcs but I dofollow the company. I read every web site dedicated to the BUSINESS OF DISNEY. Miceage, JHMEdia, even mouse planet. I read Disney War and Work in Progress. Im up on the shareholder revolt leb by Roy and Stanley. I have a general working knowlwedge of what is going on. Are all sources 100% credible all of the time......No. But one common thread between all literature is the fact that the AP program has become too big (expecially in CA under Pressler and Harris).

As an insurance underwrite myself I know that everything is based on statistics...its nothing personal and doesnt specify any one direct person. Statically AP holders do spend less thats how they can afford frequent visits. They dont buy 24 dollers on ride photos and 50 plush mickeys. The are the informed consumer. They know how to work the system to the best of thier ability.

I also know at the Insurance Company I work for that every Customer Service Call taken costs the company 6 dollers (statistically). Im sure frequent calls by ap holders looking for discounts have effected Disneys Bottom line. Every minute spent telling an AP holders Dec discounts come out in july is a minute they cant sell Hotel Rooms. Disney even has instituted sales quotas and goals for CROs. If they can cut down on "Information" calls then the company saves $$$$$ per call.

If you want to keep more informed on the real thought processes behind the WDCompany. I suggect reading Miceage and JHMedia before you question thier credibility.

 

[lillygator]

I didn't quesiton their credibility but would like to see some actual stats to back up your statment - just because Miceage and JHMedia say it's so is nice but do you or they have any numbers?

and I am one of the AP holders who buys those photos even on the Buzz Lightyear ride and CM!!

 

[DMRick]

Look im not trying to insult AP holders and I dont have a link to Disney Statisitcs but I dofollow the company. I read every web site dedicated to the BUSINESS OF DISNEY. Miceage, JHMEdia, even mouse planet. I read Disney War and Work in Progress. Im up on the shareholder revolt leb by Roy and Stanley. I have a general working knowlwedge of what is going on. Are all sources 100% credible all of the time......No. But one common thread between all literature is the fact that the AP program has become too big (expecially in CA under Pressler and Harris).
.

And yet, even with all of those periodicals and websites, I still don't see where Disney is trying to lower the participation in the AP program at Disney World (since it's Disney World where we are talking about). It's so easy, if they wanted to...just keep raising the price of the ticket. Simple and clean.
We may be one of the few Disney stock holders (and I'm not talking about the one share for our wall) that have consistantly been unimpressed with how Disney handles things.

 

[Zip-a-dee-dude-da]

I didn't quesiton their credibility but would like to see some actual stats to back up your statment - just because Miceage and JHMedia say it's so is nice but do you or they have any numbers?

and I am one of the AP holders who buys those photos even on the Buzz Lightyear ride and CM!!

Thats Great dont take offense....Its statistics pure and simple.

CAr Insurance is cheaper for those with higher education......does that mean PHD never get in accidents.....No it means statistically they get in few than the norm. Its a numbers game. Nothing personal

 

[CarolMN]

I'm also having a tough time believing Disney is trying to decrease the number of passholders. Just this year, they offered DVC members a $100 discount of the purchase of a new AP and $125 off the purchase of a new PAP. There are similar discounts for renewals.

Why offer such a big discount if you want to decrease the number of passholders? Especially why for a group of guests that "statistically" spend less than other groups?

Best wishes-

 

[planning06]

Okay Mr. Underwriter. I think as an actuary I understand statistics. Just how are AP holders statistically spending less money? Is it less per visit? That would make sense since the reason they are buying APs is to spend less per visit. But, do AP holders spend more in total in any given year than if they did not have an AP? Therein lies the question. If you get a person to buy an AP, are they more likely to visit more often? This is the logic behind offering APs. Make it cheaper per visit and they will visit more often. The bottom line is more money in total.

 

[DisFlan]

I'm also having a tough time believing Disney is trying to decrease the number of passholders. Just this year, they offered DVC members a $100 discount of the purchase of a new AP and $125 off the purchase of a new PAP. There are similar discounts for renewals.

Why offer such a big discount if you want to decrease the number of passholders? Especially why for a group of guests that "statistically" spend less than other groups?

Best wishes-

Because we already have accommodations. As a group, we may use a few AP room discounts, but not like the general population of AP holders. DVC owners asked for more perks. This is what we got - and it's fine with me. DVC people make more trips and spend more while they're at WDW than the general mass of visitors (7x as much as off-site people, according to DVC). Cheaper APs encourage us to continue this. But we're a drop in the bucket of 10+ million other yearly visitors.

Disney definitely wants fewer AP holders. They want to sell park tickets. They want to sell more park tickets. Park income is their bread and butter. It's their biggest profit margin. More tickets and fewer APs also means fewer discounts, perks and cranky AP holders to worry with. From Disney's business point of view, there isn't much of a downside to selling fewer APs.

Don't be surprised if we see a real decrease in the discounts offered in the near future. The new AP system is just the beginning of weaning us off "expected" discounts and codes. When the parks are full of people buying MYW tickets and the resorts are full of guests willing to pay rack rate, Disney doesn't need to offer many discounts. It would be foolish of them if they did.

DisFlan

 

[Zip-a-dee-dude-da]

Well Mr.Actuary......as such you should know there is such thing as Good business and not so good business. Vacationers and day trippers are good business....AP holders are not so good business. They clog up the phone line looking for discounts (it costs $$$$ to man those phones) and clog up guest relations with complaints (it costs $$$ to process the complaints)

If the ap program was smallers so would these costs (as well as others)

 

[planning06]

Well Mr.Actuary......as such you should know there is such thing as Good business and not so good business. Vacationers and day trippers are good business....AP holders are not so good business. They clog up the phone line looking for discounts (it costs $$$$ to man those phones) and clog up guest relations with complaints (it costs $$$ to process the complaints)

If the ap program was smallers so would these costs (as well as others)

I'm well aquainted with rising expenses. I understand that problem perfectly, I even asked about an easier fix. My question has to do with the repeated assumption that APers spend less money at WDW.

BTW, it is Ms. Actuary. ;-)

 

[DMRick]

When the parks are full of people buying MYW tickets and the resorts are full of guests willing to pay rack rate, Disney doesn't need to offer many discounts. It would be foolish of them if they did.

DisFlan

Give them free food, and the resorts will be full. Aha..but what happens after that? And when the gas prices are such, that the long distance people don't come? Why, they'll offer AP rates. So far, I haven't seen a big decrease in AP rates. What I have seen, is Disney (if they don't continue with the regular call in rates) having a lot less last minute visitors. And less visitors mean less rooms filled. The jury is still out on this, but even after all the "opinions" I have read, I still see nothing that tells me Disney wants less AP holders coming.
As far as the phones taking up money to answer...well, gosh, too bad Disney isn't better at giving out the info to AP holders, so they don't have to call as often. And even that said, we're a drop in the bucket (those that get all this info here) to the masses that call for all sorts of reasons. I camped this week with two families who have AP's. One was DVC. Neither have heard about the new AP stuff, and neither has ever used an AP discount. They both use their AP for park admission only (I guess it's similar to people who don't use coupons, even if readily available). I think you are more apt to have those who read disboards and mousesavers knowing about the discounts. And we are a small percentage of the whole.

 

[DisFlan]

DMRick- the next thing we may see is a considerable hike in AP prices. That'll be the real clue. It'll weed out people who only go once or twice a year. Especially the people who buy them for room discounts. The higher APs would still be worthwhile for people who visit numerous times during a year. Like DVC people who, by and large, aren't worried about getting regular rooms for more than a night here and there. We, as a group, visit more often and spend fairly freely when we're there.

As for the "free" food - Disney can give away the "free" food plan 'til the cows come home. It's a cheap trick. They've more than made up any loss by getting rack rate in return, and by upping the buffet charges for kids to adult fare. (Think about it - thousands of kids, every day, eating 3 chicken nuggets and a drink for $20+. They want characters, so they'll continue to come.)

The rooms are the expensive factor. Empty rooms cost more than giving away what amounts to a measly 1 1/2 meals a day. But it brings in guests. Lots and lots of guests to fill up all those over-built value rooms. At rack rate. It borders on brilliant. Many of those guests will be back - and they'll likely be paying rack rate then, too.

I don't think gas prices are going to have an effect on Disney until oil hits somewhere around $80 a barrel or gas is rationed. (If that happens, Disney will be the least of our worries.) Until then, it'll just be factored into the cost of a vacation. If people want to get to Disney World badly enough, they will. And they'll rationalize the cost to make it happen. As they always have.

DisFlan

 

[CharlesTD]

Well we take the 20 hour drive to Disney every year and don't think about the cost of gas even whith it being 92.8 cents per litre here at home. We want to go so we go even at the elevated price for fuel it is still cheaper than flights for 5 of us even when they are discounted to 49 dollars US each way. We own DVC so we visit yearly maybe not more than once a year but it is for extended periods of time when we go and we have our rooms locked in at a set value for the entire term of the DVC contract this was the best discount you could ever ask for. AP discouns and perks are likeley going to go the way of the dinosaur and many will be unhappy about it but for every AP owner that doesn't visit because there is no discount there will likeley be 2 more people that take their place paying rack rate.

 

[C.Ann]

AP discouns and perks are likeley going to go the way of the dinosaur and many will be unhappy about it but for every AP owner that doesn't visit because there is no discount there will likeley be 2 more people that take their place paying rack rate.

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I'm not sure that APers will "not" visit due to the lack of discounts.. If that were the case, it would be pointless for them to have an AP.. For those who want to visit more than once a year (and that would basically be anyone with an AP) I think many will just take advantage of the great off-site resort values instead.. I know I would!

 

[Luv2Roam]

I too DMRick would be interested in the name/source you have.

Just a few of my thoughts:
I have heard many times over the years that DL and WDW visitors are two different creatures.
I have heard that DL NEEDS AP-ers to keep them going. Local traffic helps them.
I have heard the opposite for WDW. They are sustained more by non-locals.
(All heresay)
A CA friend once mentioned to me how surprised he was of the non-locals at WDW.
A DL AP was pretty cheap. I do know DL locals the price increase chased away, or at least took them down to seasonal passes or occasional visitor.

As a WDW local, I may not spend money on hotels. But we eat at WDW year round. More often than not we use DDE. But we still eat there on a regular basis. And I certainly buy souveies, as most of us do I think. We are all Disney nuts/addicts after all.

And on-site rooms are being booked up, often to capacity. It is not uncommon for me to talk to locals who tried to find a last minute on-site room and are told NO availability or VERY limited. (Like one type of room at one resort.)
Bookings are up from everything I have seen and heard.

I think part of the issues Disney creates are due to the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. (Or the right hand not even knowing the left hand is even effected or there! )

IMO only there are communication, system capatability, and understaffing issues to name a few.
And if a policy is not to allow something, then the system should not allow configuration or selection where it does. And I think that has been part of the problem and where some of the inconsistencies come in.

We all read here some guests were buying kid's APs to get room discounts. And Disney seemed to turn their head.
Then they came out with the AP holder had to pay by credit card. (And what child has a credit card?) Now it seems their intention was only adult AP to go against the room for a discount. But all they had to do was make that clear in the beginning.
I have seen official wording specifying an adult AP is required. Now if it will be enforced, that will be another thing.
We all know Disney's policies and procedures are as firm as jello. Hence some of the issues they create on their own. (Again just MHO.)

All that being said, we all know too that having AP's and not being a local makes guests want to return to WDW more often "to get their money's worth" from their APs.

 

[Brian Noble]

Okay Mr. Underwriter. I think as an actuary I understand statistics. Just how are AP holders statistically spending less money? Is it less per visit? That would make sense since the reason they are buying APs is to spend less per visit. But, do AP holders spend more in total in any given year than if they did not have an AP? Therein lies the question. If you get a person to buy an AP, are they more likely to visit more often? This is the logic behind offering APs. Make it cheaper per visit and they will visit more often. The bottom line is more money in total.

It's not just total money---that's only revenue. There are also costs. If two guests each spend the same amount of money, but one guest visits the parks twice as often (and stays in the hotels twice as many nights) then that guest represents less profit. Granted, the fixed costs of the theme parks dominate per-capita costs. This is true to a lesser extent at the resorts. But, each marginal guest does add *some* cost to the operation. So, if a guest that switches from an AP to day tickets spends, say 20% less in total in a year, but visits for 1/3 fewer days, that might represent more profit for the company.

 

[aimeeme]

No offense to the AP holders who seem to strongly disagree that WDW is trying to weed them out, but isn't it obvious how WDW is going out of their way to entice new visitors. What I am talking about is first, introducing the MYW package which is geared toward those who are staying ON property and benefit by staying longer (keeing those resorts filled) and getting a better deal on park tickets by doing so (encouraging those day tickets......not ap's). All the while cutting GP codes and giving measly AP and Fla res. codes. Next, offering free dining dining plan to the general public. Again, enticing new customers. And now putting strict regulations to Ap holders with this new AP plan. Seems to me they are slowly easing into less and less benefits for AP holders.
I have been watching these boards off and on for some time now checking for GP discounts whenever we've booked a trip and it seems so obvious to me that they know who they already have "hooked" into coming and now are trying to reel in new Disney regulars....those who pay rack from the beginning and will continue to do so because hey, they know once they get them there, they will probaably return. Makes real sense to me. Also think of all of the money they were probably losing when people would book several rooms (or even one room) while waiting for a discount,. Those are rooms that could have been filled by someone seriously planning on booking the room (and not cancelling) . And lastly, the massive phone calls CRO gets not daily, but probably hourly with people asking about discounts and codes that dont even exist yet and maybe never will. Yes, maybe people call because you can sometimes get a different answer from different cast members, but if they discontinue most codes, and make AP'ers book online, they will elimnate the repetitive influx of calls. Seems to me like they're going out of their way to revamp the whole system and current clientele. JMO I have pulled on my flamesuit...however just for the record here I love a good discount as much as the rest of you but I see clearly see the writing on the wall .

 

[DMRick]

As for the "free" food - Disney can give away the "free" food plan 'til the cows come home. It's a cheap trick. They've more than made up any loss by getting rack rate in return, and by upping the buffet charges for kids to adult fare. (Think about it - thousands of kids, every day, eating 3 chicken nuggets and a drink for $20+. They want characters, so they'll continue to come.)

I don't see how they "made up any loss by getting rack rate in return". For the values especially, 4 people eating free, is a greater savings even paying rack rate than the AP discount. As for the buffet charges..while the food is free, that isn't an extra expense. It's all just more Disney playing. They try stuff and change stuff, and end up back with what works. For me, the jury is out, until I see they no longer offer the AP perks. And even if they don't, all that will happen, is they will lose more of my dollars. I'll still come..just not as often, and I'll stay offsite. I lose no magic by staying in a hotel I consider more stars for less money. I'll prob eat off site if I'm staying off site, buy at Walmarts, instead of Downtown Disney, and so for me, my AP will end up having more value for me, less for Disney (while I still have it...even less trips when I switch to the 10 day).

 

[Zip-a-dee-dude-da]

I still see nothing that tells me Disney wants less AP holders coming.
QUOTE]


OH MY GOODNESS.............THEY ARE MESSING WITHTHE AP HOLDERS #1 PERK, WHY ??????????? BECAUSE THEY WANT LESS AP HOLDERS. THIS WHOLE PROGRAM IS TO "Thin out the Herd". THEY WOULD INCREASE BENEFITS IF THEY WANTED MORE AP HOLDERS>

Some people just dont get it. If Disney charged a 10 srcharge for indoor plumbing i swear some people would defend them!!!