Little confused about the complaints about price hiking

[sweetpee_1993]

Look, as a Disney shareholder of course part of me feels like "Go get 'em, boys! Make all that money!!!" LOL! And I agree, it's a business first so if someone is willing to pony-up why take less money if you don't have to? No, Disney has no problem filling those rooms. Good on 'em. I get that. Completely.

As a consumer and avid fan I feel quite different. We only sail in the off-season. Current & future pricing are simply stupid. Stupid. As @bumbershoot said, it feels like a straight up insult. Much like @bumbershoot 's example, I've watched the price for the exact same room on the exact same ship at the exact same time of year go up by $1k EACH YEAR for 2 years. And it's only a 4-night cruise! The rate of price increase is considerably more than inflation as well outpaces the competition by a huge margin. During this time there are little changes and things taken away while prices go through the roof. The ships are moving towards having more similarities than differences. The shows, menus, activities, and ports stay mostly the same (unless more Frozen garbage is being rammed down our throats...um...no thanks). Disney wants me to pay them a premium for what? Characters? Brand immersion? Really? Tell me what makes Disney special above and beyond what other cruise lines are doing? Is it soda? I don't even drink soda! An adult can drink unlimited soda on other lines for a week for roughly $50 but the price difference is so much more than that. So what is the value that I get for that premium price???? Currently, I don't see it. At all. Other lines are cranking out new, innovative ships visiting a variety of ports. I have been on Royal Caribbean & Norwegian. I didn't notice the service, cleanliness, or overall quality being all that different. Each line has their pros & cons, Disney included. The only thing that Disney has in their favor in my eyes that other lines don't is branding & characters. But then other lines are more diverse with exciting features Disney doesn't have....all for a lot less money.

I'll be clear. If I felt that I was receiving a premium product I would have zero problem paying a premium price. It's all about value. If Disney wants to command a premium they should stop making moves to be within the industry standards. If you want to be average then I want to pay you accordingly. Wow me. Impress me. Do something that raises the bar. Mediocrity is not worth a premium.

Why am I even using words like "standard" or "mediocrity" when discussing Disney at all?!?! Ugh! That's mind-boggling to me!

I won't pay more to get less.

Am I mad? In a way, yes! It's in no way enjoyable to see the object of my inner-fan-gurl rear its ugly head. And it does feel ugly to me. I am insulted. I don't enjoy feeling like my devotion is expendable. I have sung the praises. I have been the diehard cheerleader. Now I feel like a fool for it. I don't like feeling like Mickey's greedy hands are raiding my pockets shamelessly. I know it's a business and its not personal but that's how it feels. In the spirit of honesty, I'll get down to it: I feel like the fine fellow that I believed in with my whole heart is perfectly happy to rip me off. He'll laugh his endearing little laugh while he does it. It hurts my heart, makes me angry. When I think about it, my heels dig in deeper and I'm more determined than ever to not be taken for a fool.

Disney wants to touch a personal nerve with the nostalgia so here's the personal nerve. Only it's not their goal nerve at all anymore. Can't have your cake & eat it too. Disney wants to get personal so here it is. Honest and to the nitty-gritty.

I'll even go a step further with my honesty. I could go to work at any time with a solid Disney-specialized travel agency, an agency I care very much about on a very personal level. Why don't I? Because I do NOT believe in what I'd be selling anymore. If nothing else in this world I pride myself in my honor. I would not be okay pushing a product I believe is overpriced for what it is. That fact irritates me even more because I don't want to be jaded like this! I'd be much happier if I was still enamored of Disney Cruise Lines!

I swear, if it wasn't for my friends who I adore, I'd be done. They still love it all and are fully onboard so I sail with them. It's getting harder and harder to justify even that, though. It's quite the dilemma for me. Truly. This constant teetering of the scales between what my heart wants to simply love and the knowledge that it's not a financially valuable thing....the fluctuation between head & heart....it wears on me.

And I *pray* Disney reads this. I *pray* that what people say about Disney paying attention to what is being discussed on Dis is true.

Before I hop off my soap-box, I feel its only fair to throw out a disclaimer: my sons are both aged out of the youth programs. They're both in that odd no-man's-land caught between a dedicated cruise experience with peers and the full adult-side experience. I don't know that with the current fleet there's a lot more Disney can even do for that age group. But, imagine being 18-20....consider what Disney offers and contrast that with all the innovative, exciting offerings on the new mega-liners rolling into service elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, my boys do love Disney. Nostalgia. And they appreciate all our amazing adventures. But, when I put myself in their shoes and imagine their cruise experience, other lines have a lot more to offer. A lot more. If I still had kids in the youth programs my whole opinion might be different because of the value in giving them that Disney experience. Where our family is right now Disney simply isn't the best option.

I believe Disney could do & be so much more. It feels like they're content to sit back, rest on their laurels, and keep raking in the $$ by twisting heartstrings with nostalgia. That disappoints me. They were once known for their innovation and quality. Once upon a time...... (((((sigh)))))

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Raising a 3 night cruise for 3 people by nearly 1k inside of 3 years is absolutely beyond just keeping up with inflation, it's insane. And to do it with the value dropping at the same time shows us they think we are stupid.

Pricing out our "same" cruises since we started with dcl in February 2013 (and we travel during off times) makes me nauseated.

Truth. An 00T on 4-night Dream mid- to late- September for 2 people increased about $1k from 2014 to 2015. It has increased about another $1k from 2015 to 2016. So $2k over 2 years for 2 people cruising 4-nights. There aren't words.

 

[Iamaplanner]

The most active threads are the ones complaining about them removing this or that and raising the prices.

The fact that these ARE the most active threads (as you point out) speaks volumes to this issue. I think that it's relevant to read how many people will be changing their vacation plans, after years of sailing with DCL. I don't take it as complaining if someone decides to spend their vacation dollars elsewhere and shares their reasons on here.

 

[jenmiller114]

We did an Alaska sailing a few years ago and are actually planning another. We are waiting for the 2017 schedule to come out. I have been checking out other cruise lines and honestly, depending on month, the cost isn't as different as it seems. To get the same size room on Princess, for example, we have to book a mini suite, when we are used to the cheapest ocean view room on DCL. The price is almost exactly the same at that point. When I think about the excellent customer service I've had on DCL, especially by the room hosts, I get fearful of trying another line. Plus, at this point, we know the Wonder so well that it is like a vacation home and not a random cruise ship.

I know it depends on how people like to vacation. For us, knowing exactly what we are getting with DCL is good enough for us to stick it out with them. I think we are more concerned with excellent service and consistency than with cruising in general. For those who care more about cruising and who want to cruise often, DCL may not be for them.

I totally get what you are saying and I am waiting for the 2017 prices too. We are sailing on the Wonder in December and I plan to book a placeholder with the hope that the prices won't be too crazy (although I think we can all agree they will be). Our problem is we are a family of 5 and pricing is significantly higher when you add that extra person. But I am willing to pay for Disney because I believe their product is superior to the other cruise lines for me and my family. The problem is convincing my husband! We get really good travel discounts for last minute travel and we can sail Alaska for 1/4 of the cost of Disney if we are flexible. That being the case, I have yet to book one because I have a hard time accepting something less. We have been on RCCL, Norwegian and Celebrity. I have enjoyed them all but I don't think they compare. Hoping that the opportunity to book as a gold member and the placeholder will be enough to make it work this time around. My other option is to make my kids draw straws and leave one at home .

Jennifer

 

[aggiedog]

They still love it all and are fully onboard so I sail with them.

Sweetpee, not to diminish your angst, since I feel it too, but until you stop sailing with DCL and giving them your money, I honestly don't think they care how you feel.

We have a Christmas cruise schedule for this December. That is probably the last DCL cruise we'll do for a very long time. I can't justify the prices when I could take my family of 6 (8 if you include the grandparents that usually travel with us) on some serious, multiple vacations for the price of a cruise these days.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Sweetpee, not to diminish your angst, since I feel it too, but until you stop sailing with DCL and giving them your money, I honestly don't think they care how you feel.

We have a Christmas cruise schedule for this December. That is probably the last DCL cruise we'll do for a very long time. I can't justify the prices when I could take my family of 6 (8 if you include the grandparents that usually travel with us) on some serious, multiple vacations for the price of a cruise these days.

I agree. You're right. And like I said, it's a super hard conflict for me because I have a group of friends that I adore, amazing ladies, that I sail with. That Wonde post-dry dock? It's with one of the ladies, a very good friend, and her husband. We are booked with our spouses. And others are slowly joining us. If it weren't for the friends I would be done. For as much as my half of the 00T is next Sept I could pay the 100% single supplement and sail the same cruise in my own inside room. OR....a single studio on the NCL Escape for a full week at that time is a chunk less than the inside for 4 nights. I look at this and it tears me up inside. I would be so sad if I missed out on a cruise with my friends. But then how much do I really bring to their cruise fun when I'm so jaded and not sharing their same joy & wonder? See?! Killin me!

 

[Toddymae]

Everything is more expensive. In the past five years Big Mac up 29.5%, Coffee 27%, Bacon 67.8%, Eggs 30.3%, Ground Beef 39.5% and Milk 21%

$100 in 1998 - when Disney started sailing - in todays money is $144.79

Everything is more expensive, you get less for your money.

 

[vinotinto]

Yes, beyond the increased cost of living and doing business, DCL is charging a premium. Yes, it's twice the other lines, and no it's not just the increased cost of business. It's very simple how they do that.

1. They only have 4 ships. It's not hard to fill 4 ships!

2. And they have an endless supply of a particular demographic: parents with young kids. My kids are now 8 and 10 and they are getting to that age when kids clubs won't be relevant in our equation anymore. Our next cruise will likely be our last DCL. But, DCL will replace us with another family with young kids, especially those with really little ones (toddler - Pre K -K demographic). Because when it comes to kids clubs, DCL does stand apart from the rest and if you look around a ship, it's full of families with little ones.

Having cruised twice on RCCL on older ships, I can say that DCL is not better in food, or service, or adult activities, or ship features, or itineraries. It comes down to being able to leave your child for longer periods of time and not even think about it (although I have to say that I did like the easier drop off and pick up at RCCL's smaller ships over the Dream, and how the counselor a really got to know the kids).

 

[Bree]

It isn't just the cruise line that is seeing huge increases. The parks and resorts are climbing in prices too. I bought a FL Resident Seasonal Pass November 2014 for $340. Renewal cost at the time was around $260. In February 2015 they increased the renewal cost from $260 to $290. A couple weeks ago they increased it again to $350. That is an $80 increase in less than a year!!!!

 

[holula]

It isn't just the cruise line that is seeing huge increases. The parks and resorts are climbing in prices too. I bought a FL Resident Seasonal Pass November 2014 for $340. Renewal cost at the time was around $260. In February 2015 they increased the renewal cost from $260 to $290. A couple weeks ago they increased it again to $350. That is an $80 increase in less than a year!!!!

In fairness, it includes parking now, so it's not apples to apples. I don't mind paying $50ish more for parking, since I would spend that anyway.

 

[mevelandry]

I see your point but the thing is that the price difference is remarkable when you compare cruise lines.

Yes, DCL has the mouse, but is the Mouse worth the 3000$ difference (sometimes less, sometimes more) for two similar experiences?

And with the canadian dollar performance where you have to pay 35 more cents per dollar... Even a 3 day cruise becomes "overpriced" very fast.

 

[texas disney mom]

Everything is more expensive. In the past five years Big Mac up 29.5%, Coffee 27%, Bacon 67.8%, Eggs 30.3%, Ground Beef 39.5% and Milk 21%

$100 in 1998 - when Disney started sailing - in todays money is $144.79

Everything is more expensive, you get less for your money.

But I thought there was no inflation?! What else are we being lied to about?

 

[sweetpee_1993]

But I thought there was no inflation?! What else are we being lied to about?

How can you tell a politician is lying? If their lips are moving... LOL!

Sorry. Couldn't resist! LOL!

 

[tup1830]

Analogy:
Go to restaurant with a very nice dish - Cost you $25
Next year the restaurant changes to cheaper ingredients (saves them money) and now charges $45
Next year the restaurant takes away the ketchup from the tables and now charges $65

You have a point that they are a business, but DCL is banking more on the name than the product.

Disney can charge $50,000 for an inside room if they want.

People are upset because they offered a superior product and experience in the past at a cheaper cost. Your evaluation of costs increasing is not accurate, they are getting more and more cost efficiencies by buying bulk for both the parks and DCL and oil at a very low point right now. That isn't higher costs, that's increasing the profit margin.

 

[texas disney mom]

Analogy:
Go to restaurant with a very nice dish - Cost you $25
Next year the restaurant changes to cheaper ingredients (saves them money) and now charges $45
Next year the restaurant takes away the ketchup from the tables and now charges $65

You have a point that they are a business, but DCL is banking more on the name than the product.

Disney can charge $50,000 for an inside room if they want.

People are upset because they offered a superior product and experience in the past at a cheaper cost. Your evaluation of costs increasing is not accurate, they are getting more and more cost efficiencies by buying bulk for both the parks and DCL and oil at a very low point right now. That isn't higher costs, that's increasing the profit margin.

Another way to think of it is that some large portion of your cruise fare is transferring right into Iger's bank account as part of his bonus. To the OP: that's why you see these threads. People are asking themselves, "do I want to pay more towards Iger's bonus? Or do I want to put that money in my 401k." I'm sure Bob Iger is a pleasant enough guy, but there is only so much I want to contribute to his bonus.

 

[texas disney mom]

My question to the OP and others who have joined on his/her bandwagon is why are you trying to shut down conversation about Disney pricing? Are you trying to impose a kind of censorship? Because no one is forcing you to read certain threads. I do not read the majority of the threads on the dis. I dont care what people bring up. Have at it I say. Freedom.

 

[DCLDVC1]

Everything is more expensive. In the past five years Big Mac up 29.5%, Coffee 27%, Bacon 67.8%, Eggs 30.3%, Ground Beef 39.5% and Milk 21%

$100 in 1998 - when Disney started sailing - in todays money is $144.79

Everything is more expensive, you get less for your money.

Great post. Most people need to buy eggs, beef and milk. I don't know anyone who needs to go on a DCL cruise.

 

[homie wanna liv]

Another way to think of it is that some large portion of your cruise fare is transferring right into Iger's bank account as part of his bonus. To the OP: that's why you see these threads. People are asking themselves, "do I want to pay more towards Iger's bonus? Or do I want to put that money in my 401k." I'm sure Bob Iger is a pleasant enough guy, but there is only so much I want to contribute to his bonus.

My question to the OP and others who have joined on his/her bandwagon is why are you trying to shut down conversation about Disney pricing? Are you trying to impose a kind of censorship? Because no one is forcing you to read certain threads. I do not read the majority of the threads on the dis. I dont care what people bring up. Have at it I say. Freedom.

First off in no way shape or form am I trying to "shut down conversation about Disney pricing", based on your replies in this thread you clearly care about what people bring up regarding changes in policy and pricing; especially since I am shining light on a different angle about the discussion. Supply and demand play a huge part in costs of all commodities and those commodities influence the prices DCL needs to charge as a business as they use those commodities. If their costs go down, no properly run business would lower their prices especially when it increases margins(for free, generally doing this isn't free) and the ships are still sailing full regardless.

Also commenting on the post you replied to, specifically "That isn't higher costs, that's increasing the profit margin.". That is the core reason businesses are started, I work in the auto industry and you would be surprised how much those cars actually cost the automaker to build. Vehicles and pretty much everything else is sold at a price that the manufacturer/provider believes what it is worth to the consumer. What gives DCL an advantage is the amount of ships they have; higher demand with lower quantity. RCL has the opposite problem, where they may have high demand they have high quantity while continuing to add more ships. When you order things in bulk generally they cost less than when you order a few, same thing applies for occupancy.

Not related to your post.

Another thing is everyone saying that fuel costs have gone down for the cruise lines so the prices should go down. How do you know fuel costs have gone down for the cruise line? Do airline ticket prices fluctuate with the cost of fuel? Generally they don't and probably never will, there is a reason why southwest was way cheaper than other airlines for a long time. Cruise lines, airlines, ups, fedex, any large transportation company uses futures trading to lock in fuel prices for an extended period of time. SW got an amazing deal so they could offer lower fares. No company lowers prices based solely on their costs going down, that is a free increase in profit margin where most companies have to spend money to decrease costs.

If DCL is pricing people out or just having the price/value too high of concierge rooms its because people are still paying to fill them, sailing 1+ years out generally have all concierge rooms sold out. Prices will stabilize once the ships are not sailing full on every trip or when category's are not reaching a certain capacity leading up to a sailing. Most of the sailings we go on have actually stayed generally in the same facet of cost/value, increasing about 3-4% which isn't too bad actually.

PS- If you think like this, "do I want to pay more towards Iger's bonus? Or do I want to put that money in my 401k". Then you should live off the land, every single thing you buy is tied to someone's bonus; max out that 401k before buying anything. Not saying it personally to you but just pointing out that its a moot point as most corporations have a bonus structure, especially at the executive level.

PSS-If you think the price/value is too high, take your money elsewhere no one is going to shun you for doing so; its a personal choice. Everyone wants to get more bang for your buck so I encourage people to do so, comparing with other lines does nothing but frustrate yourself. If DCL makes the changes it because they do not care what the other lines offer(they spent tons of time and money researching it), they care about their business and if the ships continue to sail full its a win on their bottom line.

 

[texas disney mom]

First off in no way shape or form am I trying to "shut down conversation about Disney pricing", based on your replies in this thread you clearly care about what people bring up regarding changes in policy and pricing; especially since I am shining light on a different angle about the discussion. Supply and demand play a huge part in costs of all commodities and those commodities influence the prices DCL needs to charge as a business as they use those commodities. If their costs go down, no properly run business would lower their prices especially when it increases margins(for free, generally doing this isn't free) and the ships are still sailing full regardless.

Also commenting on the post you replied to, specifically "That isn't higher costs, that's increasing the profit margin.". That is the core reason businesses are started, I work in the auto industry and you would be surprised how much those cars actually cost the automaker to build. Vehicles and pretty much everything else is sold at a price that the manufacturer/provider believes what it is worth to the consumer. What gives DCL an advantage is the amount of ships they have; higher demand with lower quantity. RCL has the opposite problem, where they may have high demand they have high quantity while continuing to add more ships. When you order things in bulk generally they cost less than when you order a few, same thing applies for occupancy.

Not related to your post.

Another thing is everyone saying that fuel costs have gone down for the cruise lines so the prices should go down. How do you know fuel costs have gone down for the cruise line? Do airline ticket prices fluctuate with the cost of fuel? Generally they don't and probably never will, there is a reason why southwest was way cheaper than other airlines for a long time. Cruise lines, airlines, ups, fedex, any large transportation company uses futures trading to lock in fuel prices for an extended period of time. SW got an amazing deal so they could offer lower fares. No company lowers prices based solely on their costs going down, that is a free increase in profit margin where most companies have to spend money to decrease costs.

If DCL is pricing people out or just having the price/value too high of concierge rooms its because people are still paying to fill them, sailing 1+ years out generally have all concierge rooms sold out. Prices will stabilize once the ships are not sailing full on every trip or when category's are not reaching a certain capacity leading up to a sailing. Most of the sailings we go on have actually stayed generally in the same facet of cost/value, increasing about 3-4% which isn't too bad actually.

PS- If you think like this, "do I want to pay more towards Iger's bonus? Or do I want to put that money in my 401k". Then you should live off the land, every single thing you buy is tied to someone's bonus; max out that 401k before buying anything. Not saying it personally to you but just pointing out that its a moot point as most corporations have a bonus structure, especially at the executive level.

PSS-If you think the price/value is too high, take your money elsewhere no one is going to shun you for doing so; its a personal choice. Everyone wants to get more bang for your buck so I encourage people to do so, comparing with other lines does nothing but frustrate yourself. If DCL makes the changes it because they do not care what the other lines offer(they spent tons of time and money researching it), they care about their business and if the ships continue to sail full its a win on their bottom line.

You are not really making sense to me. It seems like you are just trying to start an argument. I think everyone agrees companies have a right to charge what they want. And I think- although I do not know- but I think everyone on this board is a capitalist and not against bonuses. And everyone knows that businesses have costs. But people can also talk about a business and discuss its cost structure and discuss what they want to do with their money. You seem bothered by that discussion. Why do you care if people discuss whether or not they think dcl is too expensive?
Also, I did not post about fuel prices but I agree with the person who did. Because if you do a little research you will see that fuel prices have gone down drastically and that business are generally not passing that savings on to their customers.

 

[homie wanna liv]

You are not really making sense to me. It seems like you are just trying to start an argument. I think everyone agrees companies have a right to charge what they want. And I think- although I do not know- but I think everyone on this board is a capitalist and not against bonuses. And everyone knows that businesses have costs. But people can also talk about a business and discuss its cost structure and discuss what they want to do with their money. You seem bothered by that discussion. Why do you care if people discuss whether or not they think dcl is too expensive?
Also, I did not post about fuel prices but I agree with the person who did. Because if you do a little research you will see that fuel prices have gone down drastically and that business are generally not passing that savings on to their customers.

"but I think everyone on this board is a capitalist" - you make a very generic assumption about everyone on here.

I am starting an argument by discussing exactly what you stated? "But people can also talk about a business and discuss its cost structure and discuss what they want to do with their money. You seem bothered by that discussion." I am so bothered by it that I openly discuss it in the post you replied to, the whole reason for this thread was to talk about the pricing from a business perspective not a personal once because I do not try to speak for everyone. I also wrote not related to your post specifically about the fuel prices since others have mentioned it in the thread; I stated what companies with huge fuel costs do. They pay the same price for fuel over a period of time through a contract to avoid fluctuating prices, some companies win and some companies lose with that strategy; I gave an example with southwest.

"Why do you care if people discuss whether or not they think dcl is too expensive?" As stated I am trying to shine a different perspective on the subject avoiding anything about a posters personal beliefs or personal situation; something you cannot seem to do.

"Because if you do a little research you will see that fuel prices have gone down drastically and that business are generally not passing that savings on to their customers." Sounds like you should read what I wrote and do a little research yourself, large companies do not pay market prices for fuel.