LET THE FLAMES BEGIN>>>adult only dining

[Nadine and Fred]

Okay, so does anyone want to weigh in on whether or not anything constructive can come out of a thread like this? People are feeling blamed, flamed, judged and condescended on, but none of that changes the fact that when one goes to WDW, one will see children just about everywhere.

..at the general climate in which this discussion has taken place. Aside from being told that my husband and I could be the one to leave if we did not like the behavior of a crying and whining and disruptive child at an adult type restaurant, I think all the comments have been thoughtful and balanced. No one should ever feel that they should have to leave a restaurant because of anothers behavior.And I HAVE already written to Disney re: this. I just wanted to bring this situation to this forum to hear others views.I thank everyone for your thoughtful insights.

 

[Nadine and Fred]

And many of you are not. If that was what the OP had wanted she would have started the message with a caveat of "I realize this is an extreme situation" , instead the parents were bought before the court of public opinion for having brought the child there in the first place.

Actually, I probably never would have noticed the child if he were quiet or talking to his parents or...and I probably would never have posted. But it was late (time zones aside) and the child was crying nonstop and was being admonished by his parents to "be good" and "stop crying". Actually,I think this was not extreme behavior for an overtired, bored and hungry 3 year old.

 

[Nadine and Fred]

Just for the record, the situation described by the OP involved no running or screaming. It mentioned crying and whining. That's an annoyance issue. How people can become so vitriolic and condemning because of that is beyond me. Did the child really cry non-stop the entire dinner? If they did, than that is extreme and the parents should have boxed up the food and left.
If it was just intermittent crying and or/whining than I believe the parents where acting reasonably.

Yes, the child cried non stop.

 

[jwsqrdplus2]

I read most of this thread at work where I couldn't respond, but I haven't read all of it. That being said, here is my 2-cents worth:

I am probably what would be considered a card-carrying member of the PPP. I have been known to leave a grocery cart full in the store with my apologies to the manager as I drag my screaming toddler out of the store. As a result, my DDs (6 and 3) behave (95% of the time) in the store.

I have been known to sit in the car with a screaming child while DH finishes dinner and brings mine out in a box (or sometimes he and I swap places, and I get to eat in peace!). As a result, my DDs behave in restaurants.

On our last trip to WDW, DD1 (then 4 1/2) spent 5 minutes in time out on a bench in Frontierland for misbehaving.

Now, would I take my DDs to Jiko? Probably not. Partly because of the atmosphere and partly because they would not like the menu. If I did, it would be early. I have taken them to some nicer restaurants in the French Quarter when we lived in New Orleans. But we went right at 5 or 5:30 when they opened.

My DDs know how to behave in restaurants because I have taken them and let them know what the expected behavior is. Do they have meltdowns/moments in public? Oh yeah! But I deal with it, usually by removing them from the situation. When I see young kids melting down, their parents have my sympathy. However, when the parents fail to do anything, then they lose my sympathy. Is that judgemental? Yup!! I guarantee anyone who has spectated me dealing with one of my DDs when they are misbehaving has judged me.

I do like the idea of some adults only dining at WDW that is not V&A. I love my DDs, but I also love time with DH without DDs. Maybe some of the more upscale restaurants could have an adults only time. I would enjoy it!!

 

[Nadine and Fred]

DH and I have no kids.
We are at restaurants are remark how one table with kids will be a near disaster. The next table has kids so quiet we dodn't even know they are there.
I always say it is not the kids who bother me. It's the parents who act as if their darlings are invisible. They don't want to be around them either.
Kids will be kids. And some parents allow them to act as if they are at a playground anywhere they go. And sometimes they take them to places that are not appropiate, and long past the kid's nap or bed time.
I have seen toddlers having meltdowns in a stroller late at night as the parents are dragging them out to PI. They need tp get a babysitter when necessary. Everyone will be better off -- the kids, the parents and everyone coming into contact.

 

[Nadine and Fred]

I think its pretty clear that the OP does not think the child should have been at Jiko in the first place. Instead of maybe being honest about that, she appears like she is attemping to cast doubt on the parenting skills of those parents that would bring a kid to a place like that. Those of us who have and who would, have a right to feel we are being maligned.

I do not think I would have posted ANYTHING at all if the child was not crying nonstop disrupting not only our meal but others too. This was not a post about merely bringing a child into a restaurant but about bringing a tired and cranky child into a restaurant. And it was NOT a post accusing anyone of bad parenting nor was it maligning those who would dare to allow a child to disrupt my meal. I had thought that this was a appropriate forum to discuss an issue such as this. Instead, there are some who hurl pejoratives to make others feel demeaned. I would like to thank all of you who took the time to read my original post and respond thoughtfully.

 

[lyeag]

and now we know the rest of the story.... Thanks for letting us know!

 

[Nadine and Fred]

and now we know the rest of the story.... Thanks for letting us know!

..about REFILLABLE CUPS

 

[tw1nsmom]

I do not think I would have posted ANYTHING at all if the child was not crying nonstop disrupting not only our meal but others too. This was not a post about merely bringing a child into a restaurant but about bringing a tired and cranky child into a restaurant. And it was NOT a post accusing anyone of bad parenting nor was it maligning those who would dare to allow a child to disrupt my meal. I had thought that this was a appropriate forum to discuss an issue such as this. Instead, there are some who hurl pejoratives to make others feel demeaned. I would like to thank all of you who took the time to read my original post and respond thoughtfully.

I hope you weren't offended by my post asking what was considered good behavior. I truly am curious about people's opinions. I do agree that you had a right to be upset by the behavior of the parents/child during your evening at Jiko.

 

[lagunaseca]

Hallelujah!!! If my children can behave (and MOST of the time they can, though there is always the exception), they get to join us for a nice meal. If they can't, they suffer the consequence, as do I. That is part of being a parent. Children should be taught to behave in public places and not allowed to ruin ANY meal for ANYONE, at Disney World, at home, or on the moon, whether it is at McDonald's or Jiko, though I would expect it more at McDonald's.

I agree. Trust me, my children are FAR from perfect but my mother always told me to choose my battles and stress less about little things and concentrate on the things that I feel are most important. Manners and behaving in public is one of those things that is very important to me. Either I really instilled that in my kids or they just love to eat at nice places and know I put up with nada that is ill mannered when we are dining out. It's a pet peeve of mine. We never had a problem when our kids were young. If we had, and I do know we had a couple of "almost meltdowns" at the end of our meal, I took them out while dh paid the check. I would never sit there and let my kids ruin someone else's meal. But by the same token I don't like it when people automatically say "don't bring kids" to a restaurant at WDW or give you dirty looks when you enter a restaurant because you have children with you. I have 3 (who are old enough now not to upset anyone) and when they were younger we got plenty of dirty looks when entering restaurants. Funny thing is we many times got compliments from managers, staff, and even other customers when they saw our kids DID behave. In fact one of the wildest things to ever happen to us was when we were staying at the Four Seasons in Houston a few years ago during the Texaco Grand Prix. Paul Newman is a car owner but we never saw that he was there when we were seated for dinner. We were sitting there with our 3 kids.... yes, kids at the Four Seasons.... and he and his party got up to leave and I felt someone walk up behind me, looked up and it was Paul Newman! He put his hand on dh's shoulder and said (I'm quoting) "I just wanted to tell you what a lovely family you have." We were tongue tied, mumbled some kind of thanks, and he left. The waitstaff ran up and asked us what he said to us and how nice he was - he's been there before. True story. So, I guess what I'm trying to awkwardly say is if parents let their kids be disruptive by all means I understand your grief, but don't automaticall judge ALL kids or ALL parents when they walk in the door. I know lots of kids who are better behaved than some adults at dinner. BTW. I'm not directing my thoughts to anyone in particular, just in general.

 

[chobie]

I do not think I would have posted ANYTHING at all if the child was not crying nonstop disrupting not only our meal but others too. This was not a post about merely bringing a child into a restaurant but about bringing a tired and cranky child into a restaurant. And it was NOT a post accusing anyone of bad parenting nor was it maligning those who would dare to allow a child to disrupt my meal. I had thought that this was a appropriate forum to discuss an issue such as this. Instead, there are some who hurl pejoratives to make others feel demeaned. I would like to thank all of you who took the time to read my original post and respond thoughtfully.

Well I'm glad you clarified. As far as hurling pejoratives, labeling people bad parents based on only seeing them with their children for a small period of time seems like hurling pejoratives to me. Thank you for not being one of those who threw that pejorative at people. I save a term like bad parenting for people who abuse and neglect their children. This is an appropriate forum to discuss an issue and when a person starts a thread with the words"let the flames begin" one should expect some debate.

 

[lillygator]

I forgot to mention in my previous post the people on cell phones, inappropriate attire at upperscale restaurants regardless of the "written" dress code, in the middle of public displays, etc...etc...etc....

My DD has been going to CG since she was 18 months most recently for a 7:30 seating in December for our anniversary and even the waiter commented how well behaved she was. The couple at the table on the right glared at us - why who knows...she never made a peep all dinner and the old couple on the left kept commenting on what an angel we had. Now as far as noise goes at CG - that place is PRETTY noisy especially if you are on the "cooking" side....





DIS'ers...be on the look out - my family will be at CG in March with a 2 year old and a newborn!! Glare away! :lol:

 

[Philly81]

DIS'ers...be on the look out - my family will be at CG in March with a 2 year old and a newborn!! Glare away! :lol:

I won't be glaring Have a wonderful dinner!

 

[chobie]

forgot to mention in my previous post the people on cell phones, inappropriate attire at upperscale restaurants regardless of the "written" dress code, in the middle of public displays, etc...etc...etc....

Inappropriate attire? You mean like a tank top on a hairy backed man? I saw that once at Boma, but I figured since Boma is not quite the signature dining venue of, say, Jiko, that it was okay.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...How can kids learn how to act in a decent restaurant if they're never exposed to it? Behavior issues in restaurants (and anywhere else for that matter) need to be addressed and correct behavior needs to be taught, but how can that happen if kids shouldn't be in nice restaurants?

How did you learn to drive? Did you immediately take the car on the Interstate and hit 70 mph the first time you were behind the wheel?

If you learned to sew, was your first project a wedding gown?

When you learned to cook, was your first project a five course meal?

I really doubt that you immediately were immersed in the new situation. You had to have a training period before you jumped into the real thing. So why can't parents take their children to a less adult restaurant to teach them how to act in a restaurant? After they master that, then try a more upscale restaurant. Or maybe when the parent masters the act of parenting, they can bring the child to a more adult venue.

 

[Divamomto3]

I forgot to mention in my previous post the people on cell phones, inappropriate attire at upperscale restaurants regardless of the "written" dress code, in the middle of public displays, etc...etc...etc....

My DD has been going to CG since she was 18 months most recently for a 7:30 seating in December for our anniversary and even the waiter commented how well behaved she was. The couple at the table on the right glared at us - why who knows...she never made a peep all dinner and the old couple on the left kept commenting on what an angel we had. Now as far as noise goes at CG - that place is PRETTY noisy especially if you are on the "cooking" side....





DIS'ers...be on the look out - my family will be at CG in March with a 2 year old and a newborn!! Glare away! :lol:

Actually, I think if you can/want/do take your 2 year old to the California Grill than you are a better parent than I am! I do not have the patience or disposition to be worried about how my kids are going to act in a place like that. Heck, I went there for my anniversary last summer with DH only and I was worried how I was going to act! LOL. I am too nervous and high strung to be worried about whether or not one of them is going to have a fit. I wouldn't enjoy a bite of my $100 meal, not to mention my kids wouldn't like a thing on the menu. And I'd be too worried I was disturbing the others around me...even on our best behavior, we are not the quietest 5 people in the world! Hats off to you, but I'll stick with Boma and 'Ohana.

 

[Deesknee]

We have taken our triplets to these types of restaurants, even when they were young.They are almost 14 now and I can remember only once having to request the bill early and leave ANY restaurant. (that happened to be a pizza joint.) We have always gotten compliments on how well mannered & polite they are. However, we now have a 1 1/2 yr. old, i have no intention of bringing her to this type of restaurant. Atleast it doesn't look that way so far. I think the triplets were about 3-4 before we started taking them to fine dining. We are of the opinion if you never take them they never learn what is expected of them in that type of atmosphere. We, as I said, would request the bill and leave if they started acting up.

No flames. I respect your thoughts. Even with kids myself, if I'm trying to relax I can't with a child screaming. ( I tend to want to go take care of him/her)

 

[robinb]

I guess my point is where do we draw the line? There seems to be a group of people (not talking about the people on this thread per se) that are offended by the mere presence of children in almost any restaurant. They also hold children to a higher standard than they hold most adults. They're assuming that a child in a restaurant is going to misbehave and when the slightest deviation in their Emily Post behavior occurs in the child they pounce on the opportunity to criticize the children and parents.

This was my main point in this discussion. Thank you for saying it in a different way. But, I don't think anyone is listening .

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Im prepared for flames if they come after this post...

For those of you deeming some parents part of the PPP....i think its just plain rude. Because the statement is dripping with sarcasm. Is it so outrageous to think that some parents actually have children who can sit quietly through a meal? Or that parents can take a screaming wailing child from a restaurant?

I've been going to Disney since I was 2 (am now 20) and my parents took me to several of the finer dining restaurants, when i was 5 I believe. That was the earliest they would take me. If i was fussy, because I also agree that kids can be figdety or whiny after a long day in the parks, my mom would either take me to the washroom, or outside till I calmed down. Now...these occurances were few and far between. I DONT agree with adult only dining though. Disney is a place for kids of ALL ages. I strongly believe that the more children are taken to restaurants, the better they learn how to behave in them. By age 5 i was ordering my own food off the meuns and my cousins couldn't do that till they were 10. Its not a matter of practically perfect parenting. Its a matter of being respectful to the type of environment you are in. Im sure the parents that take the time to remove their screaming children from these situations would not appreciate being referred to in a sarcastic manner. After all, they are simply trying to make the dining experience pleasing for everyone, including themselves.

 

[DeterminedOne]

You can judge parents all you want and vent until the cows come home, but it won't change things. Children need to be shown how to act, not controlled. They're humans not animals.

What's the difference between being shown how to act and being controlled?
Sounds like you're arguing semantics. Kids DO need to be controlled. When they aren't they act up in restarants, stores, whatever.