LET THE FLAMES BEGIN>>>adult only dining

[TinkerbellMama]

Responding to two other posts I've seen (sorry I'm new and have trouble quoting directly):

Our son is very young still and doesn't have an "official" bedtime...he sleeps all night with us and we go to bed fairly late, wake up a little late, so he does too. We are going to homeschool him so when he's older he will probably be one of the kids "up late" in a restaurant but for him that will be "not too late" and shouldn't affect his behavior. If it does, we will leave!

The other thing is that at not quite three months old he has already been to 4 movies and has never made so much as a peep!!! What we did was take him to three "baby movies" first...our local cinema has a program Tuesday mornings where you get cheap tickets and EVERYONE THERE has an infant with them, so if your baby cries a little bit it's not the end of the world, but ours never did, not once, so we decided to try him at a "regular" movie (Sunday matinee, nearly empty, kids' movie--Lemony Snicket!) and lo and behold he was an angel, not a fuss or a cry the whole time! My sister and niece (11) were with us, plus my mom, and all agreed that my niece could not have done the same as a baby...just her temperament! I think part of it is knowing your kid's personal limitations. Ours is easygoing in public so far so we take him places, cautiously, and have a good time. If that ever ceases to be the case, we will adjust accordingly! He has also not cried on 4 plane rides. We lucked out!!!!!

 

[tlev]

How does one resolve the several issues that have been brought up? For example:

Do children even belong in some of these places?

What constitutes bad parenting?

What constitutes showing respect? Not bringing kids to certain places or being tolerant of parents who do?

Children who can behave and enjoy the upscale cuisine, as several posters have said their children do, most certainly belong. Children who can not sit still and keep themselves at their own table for the duration of a long meal, do not. I do not expect children to be "seen and not heard", I also do not expect them to be hanging over the back of their chairs and screaming and yelling. (And please, before you flame me Chobie, I also do not mean when a child is hurt or has special needs.)

I want to apologize for my wording in an earlier post. I meant to say "Rude Parents" not "Bad Parents", there is a big difference. And allowing your children's behavior to affect someone else is RUDE. I think we all know that we are not talking about a child throwing a 1 minute little "breakdown" here, we are talking about prolonged episodes, as was stated by the OP. And it is disrespectful to allow your child to affect another's meal. And I understand that there are people who will give parents the evil eye when a child is merely brought into their presence, but if I am staring at your child as he/she is standing on a chair to peer over my table and you are doing nothing to stop them, then you are rude parents. If you are sitting there eating your meal while your child throws a prolonged tantrum and do nothing to stop it, then you are rude parents.

All we are saying is PLEASE think how others might feel about your child's behavior.

 

[antkim]

Perfectly stated, Annie.

However, I think that there are some who are more concerned with getting the last word (wether it makes sense or not) than they are with resolving this.

Just watch...

I've been wanting to say that for 6 pages now!!

 

[lyeag]

ditto

 

[robinb]

And I understand that there are people who will give parents the evil eye when a child is merely brought into their presence, but if I am staring at your child as he/she is standing on a chair to peer over my table and you are doing nothing to stop them, then you are rude parents.

See? This is exactly my point. This does not bother me one little bit and you think it's rude. Now, if the kid was making little balls with the straw wrapper and spitting them at me. Yup, rude. If the kid was making his finger into a gun and "shooting" me. Yup, rude. But a kid peering at me from another table?!?! : Regular kid behavior.

ETA:
FWIW, If it were my child I would be able to tell from your scowl that you didn't like it and I would ask her to stop bothering you. But I don't think the action in itself is grounds for dismissal.

 

[delilah]

Not to change the subject, but some adults can put on a more disruptive show that most children. For example, on our last trip to Epcot, we decided to go to Tangerine Cafe. My son needed to go to the restroom, so I took him, while my friend waited in line (the line was quite long, so we were still not ready to order when I came back with my son). While I was gone, my friend reported that one couple had a very loud, angry and prolonged discussion during which the woman berated her husband for not wanting to eat the Morrocan items on the menu (apparently, they had some children's items which were mainstream American). I mean, come on. I would probably not insist that my husband or son or anybody else eat something that they wouldn't enjoy, would you? Much less, make a loud and ugly scene in a public place about it?

Incidentally, my son behaved very well at this particular restaurant. He actually decided he liked some of the Morrocan food on my plate better than his cheeseburger.

 

[ladyv]

I had finally had enough (plus the screaming 5 y/o was getting on my nerves). Anyway the waiter came by and filled my water glass. I looked at him and nodded toward the kids, but he just winced and shrugged. I got up like I was going to the buffet and had my water glass in my hand. As I approached the table I 'accidentally' stumbled pouring the full glass of water over the older kid's head. Of course I immediately apologized . What could the parents say? I did apologize and besides what adult would intentionally pour a full glass of ice water over a kid? I went to the dessert bar and got something I didn't even want, and on the way back to the table made sure they saw me wink at the handicapped couple who were rolling with laughter.

Okaaayy...I would certaintely not characterize myself as "pro kids". I get easily annoyed at their (mis)behavior and am sure I'll continue to do so until I have my own and then like everyone else, change my tune.
HOWEVER - I honestly cannot believe that no one commented on this! Pouring water on a kid? IMHO, THAT is unacceptable behavior (not to mention boardering on assult) - and an ADULT should know better.

 

[tlev]

ETA:
FWIW, If it were my child I would be able to tell from your scowl that you didn't like it and I would ask her to stop bothering you. But I don't think the action in itself is grounds for dismissal.

HALLELUJAH !! This is all I have been asking for since the beginning of this thread, (as was the OP). Just to please realize when your child's behavior is bothering someone else and act accordingly. And I am sorry, but children standing on the furniture should not be acceptable behavior at any restaurant, anywhere, regardless of the prices on the menu.

 

[lyeag]

Okaaayy...I would certaintely not characterize myself as "pro kids". I get easily annoyed at their (mis)behavior and am sure I'll continue to do so until I have my own and then like everyone else, change my tune.
HOWEVER - I honestly cannot believe that no one commented on this! Pouring water on a kid? IMHO, THAT is unacceptable behavior (not to mention boardering on assult) - and an ADULT should know better.

Fair enough, but the parents of the children should have known better than to allow their children to continue their behavior of making fun of obviously disabled people. Especially when said behavior was obvious to another table, the couple themselves and a waiter.

Either the parents paid so little attention to the kids they had no idea what they were doing right in front of their faces, or they didn't care that the children were being rude. I am not saying it was right to pour water over the child, I would never do that myself, but I CAN relate to being so frustrated with children who do things like that right in front of oblivious parents.

 

[robinb]

HALLELUJAH !! This is all I have been asking for since the beginning of this thread, (as was the OP). Just to please realize when your child's behavior is bothering someone else and act accordingly.

Well ... It has certainly made my day to make you happy .

And I am sorry, but children standing on the furniture should not be acceptable behavior at any restaurant, anywhere, regardless of the prices on the menu.

And I think that it is not acceptable for you to expect the parents of a 2 or 3 year old to read your mind and know that you feel that's rude. Many, many, many more people encourge kids to peer and smile at them over the back of the bench by smiling and waving. They think it's cute.

I am responsible for my child, but you are responsible for your own happiness. If you let all the little things annoy you, I don't see how you can enjoy a meal with children around at all.

 

[robinb]

HOWEVER - I honestly cannot believe that no one commented on this! Pouring water on a kid? IMHO, THAT is unacceptable behavior (not to mention boardering on assult) - and an ADULT should know better.

Someone did comment on it. They thought it was a great payback.

 

[tlev]

Well ... It has certainly made my day to make you happy .

And I think that it is not acceptable for you to expect the parents of a 2 or 3 year old to read your mind and know that you feel that's rude. Many, many, many more people encourge kids to peer and smile at them over the back of the bench by smiling and waving. They think it's cute.

I am responsible for my child, but you are responsible for your own happiness. If you let all the little things annoy you, I don't see how you can enjoy a meal with children around at all.

Read my Mind? Many, many, many more people encourage children to stand on furniture in restaurants? Did your parents encourage you as a child to stand on furniture? Mine certainly did not. I'm giving up on this debate because no matter how nicely I try to phrase things, some people will label me "Anti-Kid". It is a shame when people can not try and put themselves in the other person's shoes and be respectful of their opinions without replying with snide remarks. I do not have children, (yet), but have a nephew (2yrs.) that my DW and I often take out. He is usually well-behaved but when a problem arises or he is not in the mood to behave, we exit the restaurant. This is common courtesy.

 

[chobie]

I've been wanting to say that for 6 pages now!!

But then that would have made you the person who just has to get the last word in. You wouldn't want to do that now, would you?

 

[chobie]

Read my Mind? Many, many, many more people encourage children to stand on furniture in restaurants? Did your parents encourage you as a child to stand on furniture? Mine certainly did not. I'm giving up on this debate because no matter how nicely I try to phrase things, some people will label me "Anti-Kid". It is a shame when people can not try and put themselves in the other person's shoes and be respectful of their opinions without replying with snide remarks. I do not have children, (yet), but have a nephew (2yrs.) that my DW and I often take out. He is usually well-behaved but when a problem arises or he is not in the mood to behave, we exit the restaurant. This is common courtesy.

Okay, I'm confused. Exactly who called someone else anti-kid on this thread? Can you find the quote for me please? Now I have seen posters say that they have been called this, but I don't see the actual quote.

 

[robinb]

It is a shame when people can not try and put themselves in the other person's shoes and be respectful of their opinions without replying with snide remarks.

ITA. I have seen snide on both sides on this discussion. I am not surprised that you don't have kids. FWIW, I do not mean that in a snide way.

 

[Wee Annie]

Okaaayy...I would certaintely not characterize myself as "pro kids". I get easily annoyed at their (mis)behavior and am sure I'll continue to do so until I have my own and then like everyone else, change my tune.
HOWEVER - I honestly cannot believe that no one commented on this! Pouring water on a kid? IMHO, THAT is unacceptable behavior (not to mention boardering on assult) - and an ADULT should know better.

I was actually shocked that an adult would do this. But we've heard so much on this thread re refraining from judging and labeling, etc., so I have learned. We have to look at her motivations. Was she tired? Had she been behaving well immediately before and after the water-throwing incident? Can we really say that that was bad or inappropriate? Not everyone would have the same definitions, you know....

I stand corrected by this thread. Who am I to teach my children right from wrong? After all, everyone should be allowed to do their own thing and never get judged. I would never throw food, but hey, if your definition allows for it, then go for it. Gosh, all those years as a prosecutor where we "judged" people who stepped over what seemed to be some pretty clearly-defined lines. gee, what was I thinking?

Guys, let's just remember that most of us are upset about some parents' willful negligence in the face of what appears to most to be objectively out-of-control behavior. Most people are not talking about some whining or peering over a seat back.

And sometimes negligence can constitute bad parenting, not just abuse. In fact, so many people agree that negligence can be bad parenting that there are laws that say so. There are other forms of abuse aside from smacking a child around, some just as incidious (sp?).

I fully expect to be flamed, and probably deserve it because of my sarcastic tone. This thread is like a crack addiction. I've gotta stop but can't.

 

[chobie]

Okaaayy...I would certaintely not characterize myself as "pro kids". I get easily annoyed at their (mis)behavior and am sure I'll continue to do so until I have my own and then like everyone else, change my tune.
HOWEVER - I honestly cannot believe that no one commented on this! Pouring water on a kid? IMHO, THAT is unacceptable behavior (not to mention boardering on assult) - and an ADULT should know better.

No one commented on the poster who had some man come up to her and chide her for having a baby at Beaches and Cream at 8pm. The baby was making no noise and they had just flown in from the West Coast.
If someone did that to me I would think they were rude.

 

[Wee Annie]

Okay, Chobie, that man was rude too! I agree. See, I'm equal opportunity with my labeling!

 

[antkim]

But then that would have made you the person who just has to get the last word in. You wouldn't want to do that now, would you?

Maybe I would!!!

 

[chobie]

Stop already! I might just have to drop my righteous indignation for a moment and crack a smile!