LET THE FLAMES BEGIN>>>adult only dining

[lyeag]

Wow, I agree too. The important thing is an adult is with them. No problem. If other people there want to say hi, great. As long as they aren't bothering anybody, and I am sure they don't with him around. You are lucky to have extra help!!!

 

[*Fantasia*]

Too many pages to read! I only read a few post. I say...if the child can not stop crying, whining, throwing tantrum...then I think they should take the child out until the child calms down, and if not, then I think the parent should just keep the child out and maybe just go back to their room and just eat there. This way the child is not distracting anyone.

Yes..Disney is for children and for adults too. Children is going to be everywhere, but I don't think it is right for the parents to bring a child who is yelling, screaming, irritated and just not wanting to be there and have other people deal with it. Other guests are paying customers too and they also have the right to have a peaceful meal.

 

[Northern Lights]

As the President of the PPP Squad allow me to be the final arbiter of this thread by sharing the following anecdote.

My parents invited us to an upscale steakhouse to celebrate their anniversary and wanted DD5 to join us. We felt like DD5 did not behave very appropriately - read refused to stay seated and instead wanted to climb under the table to climb into G'ma's lap. It is funny how my parents tolerate misbehavior so much better now than when I was a child. Anyway, G'ma's birthday comes around later that year and we get the same invite for the same restaurant. We pass. They insist. We insist we go to a more relaxed restaurant, like an Outback Steakhouse. They agree. DD5 has an encore performance. Now dinners with my parents that include DD5 are strictly in-home dining experiences.

Now, if DD5 is under the table nobody cares. WRONG - DD5 gets excused to finish her dinner later by herself.

The venue is not the issue. Good manners are good manners. Yes, kids will be kids, that is why it is the parent's responsibility to teach them to act, gasp, like ladies and gentlemen. DD5 does fine now (sitting next to G'ma) b/c I am the President of the PPP Squad.

Now that this has been settled, would anyone on this thread care to comment on pulling kids out of school to go to WDW? We were thinking of doing this next September for DD5. Also, we will also be bringing a 9 month old then and we will be flying. I hope he sleeps the whole flight but I am not hopeful....

 

[chobie]

The venue is not the issue. Good manners are good manners. Yes, kids will be kids, that is why it is the parent's responsibility to teach them to act, gasp, like ladies and gentlemen. DD5 does fine now (sitting next to G'ma) b/c I am the President of the PPP Squad.

No, the venue is the question at least to some of the people including the OP. I'm not a member of the PPP, but as the wife of a teacher I would say that pulling your kids out of school for a Disney vacation is not a good idea especially at the start of the year when she will just be getting adjusted to the new classroom with the new rules and new kids. You asked for opinions and you got one.

 

[lyeag]

You are right about good manners are for everywhere. I made that point in ealier posts. As for the taking kids out of school for a vacation, well, I respectfully disagree. At 5, kindergarten I am guessing, getting into the swing of things is a big deal. The daily schedule, rules, just making a few friends those first days is really important to being successful. Most parents think the kids won't miss much because it is only kindergarten or 1st grade. Things move a lot more quickly than when I was there. By the second week of kindergarten my 5 year old had already worked through enough letters and sounds to be spelling some 3 letter words. I forgot how long your trip will be, but over a few days and your child could miss a lot of important things.

Of course I don't expect you to run out and change your plans because of my opinions, but I would suggest finding out from the teacher how much your child will miss. ( I am sure you had already planned to )

Hope that nine month old sleeps the whole way!!!

 

[MickeyFlirt]

My DD is 5 and loves some of the upper scale restaurants but she also knows how to behave in them, but b/c she has been to them. I agree with the person who made the comment about it being a family vacation. On our last trip to DW we eat at rainforest cafe 2x, sci-fi, crystal palace, and Chef Mickey's all b/c DD wanted to go so was it unfair for me to take her to California Grill one night b/c me and DH wanted to go-I think not b/c it is teaching her about other peoples wants also and that we do not always do only what she wants. I am not on anyones side with this b/c everyone has a different opinion to what is a good child and what is a bad child and I do not judge a parent b/c there child may be crying or having a meltdown they are children and they will do this as a ped nurse I have seen children of all behaviors and even the best behaved will have a meltdown this is just how children are.

 

[tasassy]

Northern Lights, as to pulling your kids out of school, I am this time. We had planned on taking our vacation during spring break, but my son was diagnosed with Scoliosis. He goes to the Orthopedist on the 21st to get braced. We want him to have one last hurrah, before being in a brace for the next 8-10 years. The school work is no problem, because as a kindergartner in a multi-age class last year, he took and passed with a 100% the end of the year 1st grade test.

 

[bdcp]

We used the term "restaurant manners" for quiet voices, etc when my boys were small. We took them to places that we felt were kid appropriate. Even then, there were places we did not take them because we considered them adult romantic/quiet/cozy restaurants and not for children. You may think your children are being denied something by leaving them with a babysitter or just choosing another location, but the reality is, kids are bored easily and there's nothing more boring to them than having to sit still for an hour and eat with utensils and speak quietly. Bored and spoiled kids whine, stand on chairs, bang utensils together, etc because they are children, not little adults. And then of course there are the parents who can't control their children no matter what because they're afraid their kids won't like them.

We took ours out of school twice in Nov. Once when they were 3 (preschool) and 5(kindergarten) and again in 7th and 9th grades. All their teachers had plenty of warning and nobody had any problems. They're both in college now, so obviously they graduated with no ill effects. I just wouldnt' do it every year. It was a real treat for them and we found it easier to go that time of year.

 

[Cinderella37]

now - putting on my flame retardant suit - but I would rather deal with children being testy than old people loudly slurping their food, or drunk people getting very loud - or loud conversations in general, or sick people hacking all over the place....the list goes on and I have experienced it in every "upper scale" Disney restaurant.

You said it. Give me a kid having a bad day beside me rather than someone who has decided to forego deodorant in July. I'm a first grade teacher and yes, I'm used to being around kids all day, but there are many more annoying things that go on in restaurants than fussy kids. I'm not excusing wild kids who are taking tantrums and the parents just sitting there, but the normal old kid who doesn't much feel like sitting through a meal. As someone who does it for a living, it's very difficult (in fact impossible) to control a child's behavior. If a kid gets the urge to cry, he's going to cry. Now, these behaviors should be addressed and dealt with, but there's no magic pill, nor guarantee that a child isn't to make noise or cry.

Plus, why doesn't WDW make an effort to keep families with children seated together (certainly not banished in Siberia) and childless people (like myself for the time being) seated together. That would remedy the situation.

How can kids learn how to act in a decent restaurant if they're never exposed to it? Behavior issues in restaurants (and anywhere else for that matter) need to be addressed and correct behavior needs to be taught, but how can that happen if kids shouldn't be in nice restaurants?

 

[chobie]

We used the term "restaurant manners" for quiet voices, etc when my boys were small. We took them to places that we felt were kid appropriate. Even then, there were places we did not take them because we considered them adult romantic/quiet/cozy restaurants and not for children. You may think your children are being denied something by leaving them with a babysitter or just choosing another location, but the reality is, kids are bored easily and there's nothing more boring to them than having to sit still for an hour and eat with utensils and speak quietly. Bored and spoiled kids whine, stand on chairs, bang utensils together, etc because they are children, not little adults. And then of course there are the parents who can't control their children no matter what because they're afraid their kids won't like them.

The reality is also that some of us do want our childen to learn to enjoy fine dining and how to act when in a nice place. The reality is also that some of us feel that WDW is a great place to do that. Another reality is that some kids act out of control for short periods of time regarldless of where they are or how wonderful the parents are.

 

[justhat]

Admitting in advance that I haven't kept all with all dozen pages of this but ...

The only nutritious food in DW is at Jiko? Cut me a break LOL!! C'mon, you can do better than that! Yup, its either Jiko or Pizza Planet. Is there big news from Disney that I missed? They did away with Olivia's, 50s Prime Time, Whispering Canyon, Tony's, Rainforest Cafe, Boatwrights ....

You ask a 3 yr old, where do you want to go for dinner honey? And they say California Grille? I'm just in the mood for sushi, goat cheese ravioli and foie gras? Y'all are cracking me up here!!!

I always order the goat cheese ravioli and guess who ate ALL of it on our last visit on Jauuary 2nd? Yes, my daughter, who was 10 months old at the time. I got 2 bites of it and she ate the rest. She never liked baby food and will not eat anything mashed or pureed, so she only eats from our plate. So I let her try the goat cheese ravioli and she loved it. She also loved our sun-dried tomato flatbread, and my pork tenderloin, along with its accompaniments. Her favorite foods are black beans and French onion soup. If I can keep her away from chicken fingers and all that as long as possible then I'm going to try. When they're young, if they don't know junk food exists and you expose them to a variety of foods, then they will like things like goat cheese.

I never said that you can only eat at Jiko. In fact, when listing we'll be eating on our next trip, I didn't even mention Jiko. My husband hates the atmosphere of WC, Tony's and 50's PTC aren't 'quality dinner' to us (we'll be at 50s for a lunch though), not travelling to Olivia's or Boatwright's for a mediocre meal, and after we have our daughter's birthday party at RFC we don't plan on going back there for a long time (don't really like the food, and much of their menu is fried, not really too healthy IMO, I have a copy in front of me for the party if anyone is interested in knowing more about it). I've already touched on LTT in another post, and also mentioned buffets. We'll be doing Boma once (17yo BIL arrives that night so it's probably the only place we'd have time for) and also Ohana.

So that leaves the nicer places for us on the remaining 6 nights, which we're very happy about as we enjoy them. I've seen many kids in all the places we've dined at and have never once had a meal ruined because of a child. Yes, I'm sure I've heard kids crying, screaming, whining, and all of that, but I never notice it. And this goes for pre-parent as well as now.

My child has always been great in ever restaurant we've been to, so to hear that just because she is a baby she shouldn't be in a certain restaurant or awake past a certain time is odd. I never question any of that when I see other kids so I can't understand why someone would waste their time. I know not everyone feels this way, but some posters have expressed these feelings, and that's who this is directed to. Unless the screaming is so bad that you can't have a conversation with your dinnermate, it's really not affecting you, so why not just ignore it and have a great meal?

 

[chobie]

You said it. Give me a kid having a bad day beside me rather than someone who has decided to forego deodorant in July. I'm a first grade teacher and yes, I'm used to being around kids all day, but there are many more annoying things that go on in restaurants than fussy kids. I'm not excusing wild kids who are taking tantrums and the parents just sitting there, but the normal old kid who doesn't much feel like sitting through a meal. As someone who does it for a living, it's very difficult (in fact impossible) to control a child's behavior. If a kid gets the urge to cry, he's going to cry. Now, these behaviors should be addressed and dealt with, but there's no magic pill, nor guarantee that a child isn't to make noise or cry.

Plus, why doesn't WDW make an effort to keep families with children seated together (certainly not banished in Siberia) and childless people (like myself for the time being) seated together. That would remedy the situation.

How can kids learn how to act in a decent restaurant if they're never exposed to it? Behavior issues in restaurants (and anywhere else for that matter) need to be addressed and correct behavior needs to be taught, but how can that happen if kids shouldn't be in nice restaurants?

as a teacher of small children, but not a parent yourself, you have brought a rational and realistic viewpoint to this debate. You also offer a good remedy for what people view as a problem. Of course remedies are not as fun as diatribes about bratty children and their rude parents.

 

[sunny04]

As stated on page 2....

I find that children's behavior is often not nearly as bad as the adults with them. My experience at WDW has shows that parents often either excuse the behavior because they are too tired to deal with it, or are so tired that they discipline too much causing the child to then scream and cry because of this. Everyone is tired and hungry and things just end up a little crazy.

I think the main point to this thread was not that children should not be in the restaurant or that anyone doesn't want kids around at all - I think the point is simply, if you bring children to a nice restaurant, consider how they might affect others....not because they are children, but because you are the parent, and it's your job to teach them correct behavior in a restaurant.

I this thread has gotten way out of hand. The original posts were very polite and simple opinions. Somehow it has turned into personal attacks and feeling offended.....I personally hope the thread dies soon, because too many people are feeling hurt by the continued arguing.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I have to agree with the OP and also with a few other people. Kids anywhere in Disney are fine. Badly behaved kids in the fancier restaurants would be SO ANNOYING! I don't know how to reply directly to someone (quoting) yet so I will just say that yes, if our baby was fussy in a nice place, we would take turns with him in the lobby and/or leave early. Just because our kid is fussy doesn't mean everyone else should have to listen to him scream or cry for an hour while we eat. Parenting is about sacrifice. Sometimes I will have to give up something I want to do in order to be a good parent. Heck, just today I wanted to get in the pool, and it was fine for me, but too cold for my son, so I gave up and came back inside, LOL. And another thing, for my son's sake I don't want him thinking he can pitch a fit in ANY restaurant, fancy or not, tired or not. The way to deal with that is to teach him we have to leave when he is inappropriate, whether it's his "fault" or not that he is being inappropriate (anything from just being a normal, tired, cranky infant to being a rude, fresh-mouthed 7-yr.-old). I say if your kids don't settle down after a few minutes, LEAVE!

 

[justhat]

The reality is also that some of us do want our childen to learn to enjoy fine dining and how to act when in a nice place. The reality is also that some of us feel that WDW is a great place to do that. Another reality is that some kids act out of control for short periods of time regarldless of where they are or how wonderful the parents are.

Again, I agree.

If you always have your child eat with utensils, sit with the family, and behave at a meal, then it is not the most boring thing in the world to them. I ate in many restaurants with my parents as a child and my favorite meal was linguini with white clam sauce (and we're Italian, so you don't cut the pasta), which had to be eaten with utensils. I survived, and never thought it was torturous.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

The venue is not the issue. Good manners are good manners. Yes, kids will be kids, that is why it is the parent's responsibility to teach them to act, gasp, like ladies and gentlemen. DD5 does fine now (sitting next to G'ma) b/c I am the President of the PPP Squad.

Now that this has been settled, would anyone on this thread care to comment on pulling kids out of school to go to WDW? We were thinking of doing this next September for DD5. Also, we will also be bringing a 9 month old then and we will be flying. I hope he sleeps the whole flight but I am not hopeful....

I agree with you. And we will be homeschooling so we can always go in the off-season. Learning doesn't take a vacation at Disney World...but we can!

 

[lyeag]

I think the big issue is where to draw the line on the bad behavior. Of course that is up to each parent and that is where a lot of the disagreement comes in. In some posts people state what that line is.. in others they don't.

 

[tlev]

I have to agree with the OP and also with a few other people. Kids anywhere in Disney are fine. Badly behaved kids in the fancier restaurants would be SO ANNOYING! I don't know how to reply directly to someone (quoting) yet so I will just say that yes, if our baby was fussy in a nice place, we would take turns with him in the lobby and/or leave early. Just because our kid is fussy doesn't mean everyone else should have to listen to him scream or cry for an hour while we eat. Parenting is about sacrifice. Sometimes I will have to give up something I want to do in order to be a good parent. Heck, just today I wanted to get in the pool, and it was fine for me, but too cold for my son, so I gave up and came back inside, LOL. And another thing, for my son's sake I don't want him thinking he can pitch a fit in ANY restaurant, fancy or not, tired or not. The way to deal with that is to teach him we have to leave when he is inappropriate, whether it's his "fault" or not that he is being inappropriate (anything from just being a normal, tired, cranky infant to being a rude, fresh-mouthed 7-yr.-old). I say if your kids don't settle down after a few minutes, LEAVE!

I couldn't agree more. I can appreciate a parent wanting to teach their children how to behave in a nice restaurant, but why does it have to be at the expense of my nice meal? Why should I have to have a bad experience so your child will know what to do "next time". If wanting to enjoy my $150.00 meal with my wife on my one vacation for the year makes me selfish then bring on the flames.

 

[chobie]

As stated on page 2....



I this thread has gotten way out of hand. The original posts were very polite and simple opinions. Somehow it has turned into personal attacks and feeling offended.....I personally hope the thread dies soon, because too many people are feeling hurt by the continued arguing.

Look when the OP states that taking a three year old to particular restaurant is "subjecting them..." it does imply that the parents were doing something harmful to their child by bringing them there. Considering the amount of people who read these boards who have may have brought small children to a place like Jiko, of course its going to start a debate. A polite and simple post would have been to focus on Disney creating more adult venues because the OP would like to dine without fear of being interrupted. That is a polite and simple opinion, not questioning the parenting of bringing a kid to a particular Disney restaurant.

 

[chobie]

I couldn't agree more. I can appreciate a parent wanting to teach their children how to behave in a nice restaurant, but why does it have to be at the expense of my nice meal? Why should I have to have a bad experience so your child will know what to do "next time". If wanting to enjoy my $150.00 meal with my wife on my one vacation for the year makes me selfish then bring on the flames.

It does not make you any more selfish than the are the parents who brought their kid to an expensive meal.. Your wanting to enjoy your meal is a valid concern, but you need to bring your concern to Disney, not the people who want to teach their children to behave in a nice restaurant. You really can't blame people for assuming that if a restaurant is at Disney and it has a kids menu, their children are welcome there? Yes the parents should monitor and correct the kids behavior and yes it should be expected that despite the best intentions an outburst might occur.