Latest Resale Restriction Buzz?

Can_Dannn

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
What's the latest rumors and/or buzzing about the resale restrictions?
Any more talk of Disney considering removing the restrictions?
 

Sandisw

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
There has never been any talk from Disneys side on removing them. I think the fact that they are raising the price at the end of the month to $195, leads me to believe they are not going anywhere

IMO, if they were ever to adjust them, it wouldn’t be until Reflections is ready to go on sale and they have decided to change them for that resort

I think it is much more likely that they will implement a one time fee at the time of a reservation to book a different resort, since they included it in the POS.
 

Matty B13

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
I think that the only way they might remove the restrictions is if we hit a severe recession and have to foreclose on a lot of people who can't get rid of their contracts or can't afford the dues, which would hurt the membership in several other ways. But it would really take one like the last recession to hit for this to happen, and I don't think anyone wants that to happen.
 
  • bobbiwoz

    I'm happy to dance with you!
    Joined
    Aug 26, 2003
    ...

    I think it is much more likely that they will implement a one time fee at the time of a reservation to book a different resort, since they included it in the POS.
    Who would be paying to book a reservation at a non home resort?
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Who would be paying to book a reservation at a non home resort?
    The RIV POS allows Disney to change their mind on restrictions and create different rules for different members, including allowing some members to set up some payment system to qualify resale points.

    So, it could be something offered to Riv resale buyers to allow them to use points outside of RIV. Again, this is something they could do and IMO, it was a way to cover all bases down the road to do whatever they want for resale owners.
     

    bobbiwoz

    I'm happy to dance with you!
    Joined
    Aug 26, 2003
    The RIV POS allows Disney to change their mind on restrictions and create different rules for different members, including allowing some members to set up some payment system to qualify resale points.

    So, it could be something offered to Riv resale buyers to allow them to use points outside of RIV. Again, this is something they could do and IMO, it was a way to cover all bases down the road to do whatever they want for resale owners.
    Thank you for the clarification. I did not know that.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Thank you for the clarification. I did not know that.
    Matter of fact, when we signed the papers, they had that specific information, not only in the POS, but printed out for us to sign and acknowledge so that there was no way one could say you didn’t read it or understood the resale restrictions and changes they could make with regards to it.
     

    Cyberc1978

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 19, 2016
    Matter of fact, when we signed the papers, they had that specific information, not only in the POS, but printed out for us to sign and acknowledge so that there was no way one could say you didn’t read it or understood the resale restrictions and changes they could make with regards to it.
    I wonder why they had you sign it? I mean buying DRR can only be done direct so this shouldn’t impact you in any way.

    Unless they wanted to provide you with information that if or when you sell your interest that the buyer would face multiple obstacles when using the points.
     

    drusba

    I went to Iowa once, and it was closed.
    Joined
    Aug 19, 1999
    They have set up the POS provisions for Riviera to allow it to change the resale restriction by various methods and it is unlikely you would see the striking of the restriction before others are attempted. Assuming DVD ever thinks a change is needed, my sense is that the methods to be tried first would be ones that also sell more points from DVD, e.g., easing the Riviera resale restriction via a program used by some other timeshares under which one can convert resale points to regular points by buying a new set of regular points from DVD, e.g., buy 150 new points and you also get to convert a 150 resale points that you own to having no resale restrictions.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I wonder why they had you sign it? I mean buying DRR can only be done direct so this shouldn’t impact you in any way.

    Unless they wanted to provide you with information that if or when you sell your interest that the buyer would face multiple obstacles when using the points.
    I think it was to ensure as a buyer you knew you were getting a product that was different then previous ones and that if one needed to sell, the potential drop in resale value could be there. There is even nicely bolded language....which I don’t remember from previous POS documents...that states that one should be buying for personal use and that any resale value should not be expected at all.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    They have set up the POS provisions for Riviera to allow it to change the resale restriction by various methods and it is unlikely you would see the striking of the restriction before others are attempted. Assuming DVD ever thinks a change is needed, my sense is that the methods to be tried first would be ones that also sell more points from DVD, e.g., easing the Riviera resale restriction via a program used by some other timeshares under which one can convert resale points to regular points by buying a new set of regular points from DVD, e.g., buy 150 new points and you also get to convert a 150 resale points that you own to having no resale restrictions.
    Oh, that’s an interesting idea! I never thought of that but it makes perfect sense and I could certainly see it!
     

    Bing Showei

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2017
    What's the latest rumors and/or buzzing about the resale restrictions?
    Any more talk of Disney considering removing the restrictions?
    Interesting read on DVCNews about the latest resort selling badly and rumblings about management concern about high point cost, insane point charts, and relative room costs in the same area affecting sales.

    The article states:

    "According to a Disney Vacation Club source, the decrease in [New Resort] sales has executives very worried. Late last week, conference calls were held with members of the sales staff in an attempt to identify reasons behind the weak performance. Despite luxurious accommodations and spacious rooms, feedback from potential buyers suggests that they are most troubled by the high acquisition cost of the points and the number of points required for each night in [The New DVC] villas. The resultant "points shock" has left interested parties considering other vacation club properties, investigating the resale market or foregoing DVC altogether."

    I can believe that there is chatter about concerns around sales. Pete Werner has mentioned it several times on his show and I have no reason to doubt his sources; I just don't put much stock in that leading to any meaningful change or a reversal.

    Full article can be found here:

    Despite all the "concerns" from management, there was never a reverse course. There was no price drop. In fact, the people who bought in on Day 1, paid the best price Disney ever offered for the Grand Floridian.

    I'm not saying Riviera is the Grand Floridian, that the the resort itself offers all the same things the Grand Floridian does, or that high point charts are of equal detriment to the ecosystem as the resale restrictions. I'm only saying that most buyers won't care, and that Riviera will sell out. And just as the market became acclimated to the high point charts (PVB continued that trajectory - and save for the VWL affect, CCV probably would've done the same), resale restrictions aren't going to go anywhere and buyers will only know the new reality.

    Now more than ever, "buy where you want to stay" is sound advice. If Riviera checks all your boxes, buy it. If incentives make prices go down at all, it will be a the cost of a lost UY by standing on the sidelines waiting for any rumors/buzzing to come to fruition. More likely, prices will just keep climbing.

    With every new resort that comes online this will be the new normal, and with every new owner that comes into the system, this "new normal" will be just the way Disney's timeshare works.
     

    CarolMN

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Aug 18, 1999
    I was very much looking forward to purchasing an add on at DRR. It would have been a done deal pre-opening if the restrictions on resale purchasers hadn't made me think again. Since we would probably be selling within 5 years, the numbers weren't even close to working out given the likelihood of lower resale prices..

    I am now grateful for the restrictions, LOL. It helped get some of the pixie dust out of my eyes. The price per point isn't really all that hard to get past, but the cost per night (in comparison to our home at BWV) is a major stumbling block. From the reviews, I still think the resort is gorgeous & love the rooms. The Skyliner worked perfectly the entire week we were there last month (pre-opening) and is easy and convenient to use. Loved it! But we won't be buying - primarily due to the cost per night and the lower price expected for a future sale.

    I am looking forward to giving Topolino's a try, though. :)
     

    Frederic Civish

    “I’m just here for the Ears.”
    Joined
    Apr 18, 2018
    I was very much looking forward to purchasing an add on at DRR. It would have been a done deal pre-opening if the restrictions on resale purchasers hadn't made me think again. Since we would probably be selling within 5 years, the numbers weren't even close to working out given the likelihood of lower resale prices..

    I am now grateful for the restrictions, LOL. It helped get some of the pixie dust out of my eyes.
    I agree with everything you said. I was rabid for Rivera before it opened. I had a decent chunk of change set aside as a downpayment to buy there, but then Disney started jerking us around. I probably would have bought at least 300 points there. But now its nada, zilcho, zero. And I can assure you that unless Disney starts to support DVC members better, whether they are Direct or Resale (I am both) then the same thing will go for Reflections, and I will never own there.
     

    Can_Dannn

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 18, 2019
    If not for the resale restrictions, we would be pursuing a direct contract with Riviera.
    But because of the restrictions (as well as point charts), we are pursuing AKL.
    I absolutely love everything about the Riviera - LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!
    But those restrictions (and potential saturation with resale contracts only have those rooms to stay in) have steered me far away!


    We will be quite happy with AKL :)
     

    EYL

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Dec 24, 2018
    If not for the resale restrictions, we would be pursuing a direct contract with Riviera.
    But because of the restrictions (as well as point charts), we are pursuing AKL.
    I absolutely love everything about the Riviera - LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!
    But those restrictions (and potential saturation with resale contracts only have those rooms to stay in) have steered me far away!


    We will be quite happy with AKL :)
    This is us too and it has steered me to look for resale at the other DVC resorts. But I can't help but wonder, if the resale restrictions continue to the other new resorts, what will happen to the remaining of the L14 after 2042 when 5 DVC resorts expire and get renewed into the new POS. I know it's 22 years away, and I'll be an old man, but I don't want to leave something to my children that is unknown...
     

    Wakey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 22, 2015
    I don’t like the restrictions but they may not have put me off if the resort had blown me away as guides were saying pre opening we could expect the new Grand Floridian. It certainly is not that, so the restrictions are only 50% of the reason I would not buy, which were malleable for the right resort. Reflections looks more like it.
     

    Wakey

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Dec 22, 2015
    Interesting read on DVCNews about the latest resort selling badly and rumblings about management concern about high point cost, insane point charts, and relative room costs in the same area affecting sales.

    The article states:

    "According to a Disney Vacation Club source, the decrease in [New Resort] sales has executives very worried. Late last week, conference calls were held with members of the sales staff in an attempt to identify reasons behind the weak performance. Despite luxurious accommodations and spacious rooms, feedback from potential buyers suggests that they are most troubled by the high acquisition cost of the points and the number of points required for each night in [The New DVC] villas. The resultant "points shock" has left interested parties considering other vacation club properties, investigating the resale market or foregoing DVC altogether."

    I can believe that there is chatter about concerns around sales. Pete Werner has mentioned it several times on his show and I have no reason to doubt his sources; I just don't put much stock in that leading to any meaningful change or a reversal.

    Full article can be found here:

    Despite all the "concerns" from management, there was never a reverse course. There was no price drop. In fact, the people who bought in on Day 1, paid the best price Disney ever offered for the Grand Floridian.

    I'm not saying Riviera is the Grand Floridian, that the the resort itself offers all the same things the Grand Floridian does, or that high point charts are of equal detriment to the ecosystem as the resale restrictions. I'm only saying that most buyers won't care, and that Riviera will sell out. And just as the market became acclimated to the high point charts (PVB continued that trajectory - and save for the VWL affect, CCV probably would've done the same), resale restrictions aren't going to go anywhere and buyers will only know the new reality.

    Now more than ever, "buy where you want to stay" is sound advice. If Riviera checks all your boxes, buy it. If incentives make prices go down at all, it will be a the cost of a lost UY by standing on the sidelines waiting for any rumors/buzzing to come to fruition. More likely, prices will just keep climbing.

    With every new resort that comes online this will be the new normal, and with every new owner that comes into the system, this "new normal" will be just the way Disney's timeshare works.
    I can’t see this article Bing where is it?
     

    Bearval

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Dec 31, 2017
    Interesting read on DVCNews about the latest resort selling badly and rumblings about management concern about high point cost, insane point charts, and relative room costs in the same area affecting sales.

    The article states:

    "According to a Disney Vacation Club source, the decrease in [New Resort] sales has executives very worried. Late last week, conference calls were held with members of the sales staff in an attempt to identify reasons behind the weak performance. Despite luxurious accommodations and spacious rooms, feedback from potential buyers suggests that they are most troubled by the high acquisition cost of the points and the number of points required for each night in [The New DVC] villas. The resultant "points shock" has left interested parties considering other vacation club properties, investigating the resale market or foregoing DVC altogether."

    I can believe that there is chatter about concerns around sales. Pete Werner has mentioned it several times on his show and I have no reason to doubt his sources; I just don't put much stock in that leading to any meaningful change or a reversal.

    Full article can be found here:

    Despite all the "concerns" from management, there was never a reverse course. There was no price drop. In fact, the people who bought in on Day 1, paid the best price Disney ever offered for the Grand Floridian.

    I'm not saying Riviera is the Grand Floridian, that the the resort itself offers all the same things the Grand Floridian does, or that high point charts are of equal detriment to the ecosystem as the resale restrictions. I'm only saying that most buyers won't care, and that Riviera will sell out. And just as the market became acclimated to the high point charts (PVB continued that trajectory - and save for the VWL affect, CCV probably would've done the same), resale restrictions aren't going to go anywhere and buyers will only know the new reality.

    Now more than ever, "buy where you want to stay" is sound advice. If Riviera checks all your boxes, buy it. If incentives make prices go down at all, it will be a the cost of a lost UY by standing on the sidelines waiting for any rumors/buzzing to come to fruition. More likely, prices will just keep climbing.

    With every new resort that comes online this will be the new normal, and with every new owner that comes into the system, this "new normal" will be just the way Disney's timeshare works.
    DVD will reach a saturation point or at least a temporary one where the amount of points available is going to exceed the price point on what potential buyers are willing to pay. They may be reaching this now and if that is the case removing the restrictions is not going to improve the sales, what will improve the sales is a lower price . Either by lowering the price per point or the number of points needed to book, they cannot lower the yearly dues since this is supposed to be breakeven with a portion of the funds in a reserve.
     

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