Kindergarten cut-off dates (could be a debate, I suppose)

NJ schools all have different cutoff dates. It's difficult when moving from town to town. I'd like to see a national cutoff date to try to help younger children who may end up in a classroom with much older children.

Some towns in NJ have parents who are so competitive that they'll hold a child back whose birthday is within 6 monthes of the cutoff date. While I understand and can appreciate the parents' concern, it's gotten a bit crazy around here. Using that scenario a child could potentially be a year and a half older than the youngest child in the class. That creates social, emotional and educational difficulties for everyone in the classroom in my opinion. It also skews testing scores. A classroom which has 1/3 of its students who have been held back one year will usually test considerably better than a classroom that doesn't. It creates a hugely competitive environment in an unlevel playing field. Someone is always trying to play catchup.

I'd love to see a half year program for kindergarten, and indeed, all of grammar school. Start a rolling admission on a six month basis with the oldest children grouped together. Six months later, do it again. This way, the younger children will be "entering" kindergarten at roughly the same age as the older. Half year classrooms could continue til a child reaches middle school years. Then they would gradually move into a middle school classroom which would meet their potential. It's a pie in the sky idea, though. No money for that many sets of classrooms.
 
Originally posted by BrerMom
When is the cut-off for your state and do you think we should have a national cut-off?

Michigan's date is December 1st. That means that a kid whose birthday is at the end of November can start school at age four. Way too young for most kids considering what is expected. If you haven't been in school for a while, what used to be expected in 1st or 2nd is now expected in K. If a kid isn't reading by the end of K, they are behind and repeating K is discussed.

Algebra is currently required for all eighth graders. If the currently proposed benchmarks are approved at the state level, Algebra will be moved to 7th grade for all students. Advanced math students will be taking algebra as 6th graders!

I'd like to see a national cut-off. With as mobile as our society is, it would be nice to have a kid transfer to a different state without being by far the youngest. For example, take a kid that has a November birthday in Michigan and transfers to Indiana. When my 8th grader started school, Indiana's cut-off was June 1st. If a November birthday transferred to IN, that student would be six months younger than the youngest student in the whole grade.

edited to change the title to reflect the debate potential. :p

I think sometimes parents are a little too eager to "push" their children into a grade they are not ready for. My DN (Michigan) has her birthday in September. Her parents started her in K5 the September she turned 5. A natural assumption that since every thing was great in preschool and she is really smart, that she would be OK in Kindergarten...well...She cried every time the bell rang..She was ready academically, but not emotionally mature enough. My DSIL and DBIL realized this right away, pulled her out of K5 back into K4, and had her "repeat" K5. Next year at age 6, she was totally ready, willing, and able to move forward. Better to hold them back at this very young age, than to have a stigma that they will remember if it happens in 4th or 5th grade.

I agree that a national cutoff makes a lot of sense, but I don't see it happening. States like to keep their "state level" powers. And as I said, it would make sense. So I wouldn't count on it happening.
 
I agree that is has to (or should, IMO) be decided on a case by case basis. Some kids are ready, some are not. Age is not necessarily a factory. If a child is socially/academically ready and has the maturity to handle kindergarten, then I feel they should be allowed to start school.

There are parents who push their children into kindergarten simply so they can stop paying for daycare. I think this is much more of a concern than the "younger than all the other kids" issue.

Start them when they are ready. Our two started high school classes in 6th/7th grade.... and have fit in extremely well.... but obviously that is not for everyone.
 
Scientifically, in order for all of the examples to be blamed on being held back or sent ahead, you'd have to take that same child and send them through the system at the previous or prior year and see how the developed. I have a Feb. birthday. I remember always hating that because I was right in the middle. That's my life story. I did develop sooner. I would have had to start kindergarten when I was 2 or 3 to be on average with the rest of the class. Other than fearing that I would someday be like Dolly Parton, it wasn't anything huge.

I do know that I always wanted to be older. DD will drive later and be younger at everything. But, I hope she remembers that the reason she is yuonger is because she is so smart. I hope that gives her the confidence she needs. It's so hard to say. If I would have let her stay in kindergarten, do you suppose that she'd be a trouble maker because she's so bored? Not likely my child. She would probably sit there and cry. It's very hard to say. We just have to do what we think is best for our children. I'm glad DD3 has a Feb birthday. It won't be an issue about making the choice because I know that I would hold her back.
 
I'll talk about parents that hold their kids back and I think this is what Pembo is getting at. If not, Pembo, my apologies, but here goes.

There are well to do parents in the best neighborhoods in the best school districts who will hold their children, mostly boys, out of school to ensure that they are the largest in their class. This leads to some being nearly seven at the conclusion of kindergarten. That's absurd. These are not immature children who need extra time. These are parents searching for yet another way to give their kid a leg up. As if the ballet and violin lessons aren't working.

These will enjoy athletic and social success and will be leaders in their class simply because they are tall.

I was one of the oldest in my class and developed early to boot. It was miserable. I suspect for boys it's not a burden, but to become different when no one else is is awful for a young girl.
 
I think the idea of a national cut off for K entry would be very hard because not all school start and end at the same time. Here on the Dis there were posters who kids started school at the very beginning of August (if not very end of July) while others kids don't start until the first or second week of September.
 
Originally posted by disneychrista
I think the idea of a national cut off for K entry would be very hard because not all school start and end at the same time. Here on the Dis there were posters who kids started school at the very beginning of August (if not very end of July) while others kids don't start until the first or second week of September.

Excellent point. And, there are very valid and various reasons for the difference in start dates region by region.
 
Here in NY the cut off is Dec 1st (I am assuming places in NY have different cut off dates since another poster said she was in NY and her cut off was Dec 31).
My daughter is 4 and makes it by a few days and while I had planned on keeping her back since she was born as time went on it was obvious that holding her back was not going to work. She was in for kindergarten testing this past year and was testing THEN at a 7 year old level in many things. She reads, adds, subtracts and has an extensive vocabulary. She is taking Spanish enrichment classes and taught herself sign language from charts and books. I am sending her on Wednesday to Kindergarten knowing that she can keep up academically and just hope she can do as well socially.
I am all for holding your kids back if you feel they are not ready for school but what is happening is the parents, mainly of boys, are holding them back just so they have the edge in sports and I feel that is wrong.
 
Originally posted by aprilgail2

I am all for holding your kids back if you feel they are not ready for school but what is happening is the parents, mainly of boys, are holding them back just so they have the edge in sports and I feel that is wrong.

I agree. As I said I am holding my son back. He could start this Tuesday but he just turned 5 a few weeks ago. I don't think he is REALLY ready to sit in a classroom all day yet. Although I think he would do "OK" in kindergarten, I can see some tiny stuggles, which in time as he gets into the older grades will become a big problem. I would rather hold him back now at this age, then have to have him repeat a grade & watch all his friends move on!

Kids grow up too fast as it is.....so he will be going to a "young 5" program 3 days a week. I think that is the best choice for him.
Giving him one more year to mature socially & emotionally isn't going to hurt. I believe it will benefit him in his school years to come.

BTw--my son is already very tall for his age, so I know he will be one of the tallest in his class. He is taller then some kindergarteners I know now! But it is also a fact that kids are bigger then they were "back then" & they are developing sooner, so I don't think that will be a big issue for him.

I do not agree with holding kids back just because a parent wants them to excel in sports/etc.

I don't have a problem with parents with kids whose birthdays are in the summer/fall holding them back, but anything sooner then May...I think they would have to have a real good reason as to hold the child back (behind developmently, etc)
JMO
:teeth:
 
I live in NH and in our district the cutoff date is September 30th. Your child has to be 5 by that date or they can't start Kindergarten. :)
 
This has been an interesting thread. My oldest DS is 5 and started Kindergarten in July because of the year round school system. He has an April birthday and our cutoff is September 15th.

There are kids in his class that will be seven in January of 05 so there is over a year age difference. Most of the kids in the class can already read but the biggest difference is the social and emotional readiness of the kids. Most of the older kids that were held back were not socially ready and still have difficulty in the classroom. My son is right in the middle and after two years of fulltime preschool more than ready for the school environement.

I am more concerned about DS2 who has an October birthday. We still have a few more years but at almost three he can already write his name and recognize most of the letters of the alphapet. With the current cutoff he will not go to Kindergarten until he is almost six and I am definately worried about boredom. However, there is so much more to Kindergarten than just academics. If a child is not emotionally mature enough to handle the school environment I think it is better to wait a year.

I was a young student starting K at almost 4 and graduating at 17. It is definately tough being the youngest and the last of your friends to get to do things (drive etc.). It did not hurt me academically but definately hurt me some socially.
 
I have been debating this for over a year now with preschool teachers vs pediatricians. My boys will be eligable for Kindergatren next September. Here the cutoff date is September 1. And thier Birthday is August 19th. Clearly they both seem to be academically ready. One more socially apt to sit through a long day than the other though.
It is a very tough choice for me. If we had a half day kindergarten program I would not hesitate another minute. I have no doubt they would be ready. However we have a full day program here and all of them go full day it is not optional. The full day I am not so sure of.

As of right now. My pedi is suggesting to go against the preschool directors advice. and enroll both in kindergarten. as he feels they will get much more out of the full day kindergarten program than standard preschool. And if at the end of KINDERGARTEN year if we feel it will benefit them, Then that is the point in which we will keep them back. not prevent them from going in the first place. We will simply switch teachers and put them in for another year of K. If I have to make my descison today I will go with that choice, rather than a blanket statement that says they should not because they will be the youngest. If is very hard to know the right thing to do. We can only try not to screw up to badly.::yes::
 
If people would quit pushing their kids into school before they
were ready, the cut off date would not be an issue. Readiness
as opposed to age is the real question. Still in third grade,
it is evident who's birthday is near the cutoff in DS's class. These
kids are emotionally behind and the first ones to disrupt education with shenanigans, crying, sulking or simply not understanding instructions. I feel sorry for the kids, they are
the victims here and I understand that parents need to
get back to work/stop spending so much money on childcare or
whatever but- the little girl/boy with big behavior problems and an
August birthday would have benefitted from an extra year in
preschool/day care. School does not settle an immature child.
 
"And if at the end of KINDERGARTEN year if we feel it will benefit them, Then that is the point in which we will keep them back. not prevent them from going in the first place. "

This is your decision of course but you might want to reconsider that option.

I don't believe it would be fair to start you children only to hold them back later on if it can be avoided. To me it would be unfair to put a child in the position of being a failure. They will not be able to proceed into the first grade with their peers and friends. I think that this would affect them socially and emotionally.
 
Originally posted by shortbun
Still in third grade,
it is evident who's birthday is near the cutoff in DS's class. These
kids are emotionally behind and the first ones to disrupt education with shenanigans, crying, sulking or simply not understanding instructions.
Really? So if my DD, an October birthday, was in your DS's class, she'd be the ONLY one NOT disrupting the class with shenanigans, crying, sulking, or not understanding instructions??? Because she was always at the top of her class and is one of the youngest in her grade. Interesting.

I can think of a couple of close friends of hers offhand (they're now HS freshmen)...Kim, B-day Oct 6th, Corrinne, B-day Oct 10th too...who were always very bright and at the top of the class with my DD, and are Honors students in HS as well. However, I can also think of at least one child a year behind who still struggles to read, and another TWO years behind who is pretty darned scarey, behavior-wise.

{{{shrug}}}

I'm a big fan of John Rosemond, and I think he's got it right about giving a child the benefit of the doubt if there aren't HUGE reasons to believe it's not best to start them in school. My DS was bouncing off the walls as a toddler, and didn't test particularly well before Kindergarten. I sent him anyway. He absolutely blossomed in school, has always done well, is a straight A student and just entered middle school.

And I'll say it again...there will ALWAYS be kids whose birthdays are right before the cut-off, no matter when that cut-off is, and there will always be parents who don't want their child to be the youngest in the class, so they'll hold them back, and as Gina said, create classrooms with a 1 1/2 year age difference.
 
I think it is more the other way - people don't think about the consequences of having 19 year olds still in high school.

I'm so glad there are so many armchair psychologists on this thread...:rolleyes:

This is what gets my shorts in a bunch sometimes here.... people think that because they do something a certain way, it's the only correct and proper way. Each and every child is different, each and every situtation is different. There is no correct decision - it is individualized, folks.

And for the record - I have two children, 19 and 16. Well, my DD will turn 19 in two weeks. She just started her freshman year of college. My son was 16 the end of April and just began his sophomore year at the HS last week. So - he will turn 19 and then graduate HS in just a little over a month later.

Contrary to popular belief here, I did not hold my children back so they would be the tallest (DD is only 5', DS is 5'9", so they would have to be held back quite a few grades for that to happen ;)), the smartest (although they are high honor students and in the top 10 percent of their class) or to be Class President (nope, DS is on the JV Golf Team and in his own words, "the worse player on the whole team, but I sure do have fun." and DD was a cheerleader and also on the danceline.) Holding my kids back did not give them an advantage for making these teams - 14 years of dance enabled my DD that chance and showing up for every practice 3 days a week earned my DS a slot on the team, just like the boys who are a whole year younger than him.

I held my DS back because he was immature and didn't like to sit still. My DD had a fall birthday and the cutoff date was Sept. 1st and we abided by it. When we saw how much she benefited by it, and after talking to DS's preschool teachers and also teachers in the school district, we chose to wait an extra year for our son. Both kids have never regretted our decision for a moment.

It is up to the parents on whether to send their child or not. They know the child best. I do encourage parents to talk with the teachers and receive their input.
 
I am so glad that my son's Kindergarten AM (half day) teacher and I talked about not promoting him yet to 1st grade. He was one of the youngest boys in his class. He was not socialy prepared and academicaly not quite there yet. So the teacher and I decided to put him to Kinder again, but Full time.

We did the right thing. And I am so happy with that decision. He is doing very well in school and he is socializing real nicely with other kids. He is happy with his class and also happy to know that he is one of some of the oldest students in the class. He feels good about that. He is now in 2nd grade and he loves school! (just a side note: He is not going to be thrilled once he finds out that he will miss 4 days of school when I take him and his sister to the Disney Cruise)

I would never "push" my kids just because. We do what's best for them. We have very dedicated caring teachers. And they will try to make sure that every each individual will succeed in school. So, if repeating Kinder is a must to achieve the goal...then repeat.

Sometimes holding a child back for just a year is not a bad thing.
 
"I am so glad that my son's Kindergarten AM (half day) teacher and I talked about not promoting him yet to 1st grade. He was one of the youngest boys in his class. He was not socialy prepared and academicaly not quite there yet. So the teacher and I decided to put him to Kinder again, but Full time."

That's how to do it - not based on age or some arbitrary cut-off date. Talk to an educator, figure in all the factors, know your own child, and then do what's best. The director of my DS's preschool has already commented on this, but I'll wait until the fall testing, then the spring testing, and then I will talk to the elementary school, and all together we will be able to make a well-informed decision.

I don't think I'm being an arm-chair psychologist when it comes to my own child. After all, I live with him - I think I know him pretty good. I'll do what's best for him. And I think it is coming out here that every child is different. Problem is - the education system doesn't treat them that way. There are kids that perfectly able to attend kindergarten even tho they were born a week, a month, or like my ds three months past the cut-off date.
 
My youngest DD was born on September 15th. Cutoff date is Sept. 1st.....but, because she had a speech problem she was in a private preschool early (they took her to get her the speech therapy she needed). At that point her hearing was fine (we think).....she went to preK early, and other than expressive language (she started all words with a "t") she was doing fine. Teachers and pediatrician recommended petitioning to let her into a regular kindergarten. We sent her to the local parochial school. She did horribly socially and in terms of following directions. Academically she did okay- not great, particularly in phonics, but okay. Teacher thought she might be ADHD since she had so many problems following group instructions and seemed to follow the other kids rather than start when instructions were given, and she was weak in terms of social skills. Had a horrible time with phonics/sight words but excelled at math and was always pulling on the other kids/adults and in their faces. We didn't agree with the ADHD, as it seemed that it was just a social skills/immaturity issue. Decided to hold her back because she was "young". Interestingly, same problem the next year- only now she was way ahead of the other kids in math and most academic areas, but still lagged way behind in social skills/direction following and phonics.....finally we took her in to be evaluated. The "young" issue had blinded all of us- our daughter has a moderate hearing loss. She now will use an auditory listening device/fm unit in school. We are waiting for her hearing to stablize before getting the hearing aids. She is in first grade, and is definitely the oldest. Interestingly, she is academically working on the second/third grade level except for phonics work and some reading issues- and no one knows quite what to do with her. In a way, I blame the "early" entry- we were so worried about her age we missed the obvious!!!!!

Moral of the story- don't assume that any developmental issues are due to "age"! Check out those eyes, ears, etc.- then decide what to do about class placement. If I could only rewind the clock-we are still not sure when Lyssa lost her so much of her hearing but it was most probably at a very young age. I kick myself for being so distracted on the age issue and not catching the obvious. Hopefully, when she is old and grey she will forgive me- even if she is a head taller than everyone else in her class.
 












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