Kindergarten cut-off dates (could be a debate, I suppose)

[debster812]

Originally posted by Pembo
And don't get me started on parents who hold their kids back.

I'm another one who would like to know why holding a child back who is not socially, educationally and physically ready to start school, would generate an eyeroll.

My brother is a prime example. He made the cutoff by well over a month, however, my parents held him back. In hindsight, it was the ABSOLUTE correct decision. He is severly dyslexic, severly color blind, and had some reading issues that stemmed from his inability to 'cross the midline'. An extra year of preschool, extensive testing and therapy, and he was fine.

Our cutoff here is 9/1 so with DS being a June baby, he is towards the young end of the spectrum, but not the youngest by any means. I think it's good for him.

 

[debster812]

Pinnie said it much better than I did.

 

[disykat]

Here you have to be 5 prior to school starting. I think people should stick to the cutoff date unless there are extenuating circumstances. More than a year separation between students is VERY COMMON - mostly due to people holding their kids out.

I think it is more the other way - people don't think about the consequences of having 19 year olds still in high school.

I like the idea of a nationwide policy. When I was teaching 1st grade I had kids move up from California that were still 5 in first grade. Since it is very common here for parents to hold kids back there were also 7 year olds. While IMO a good teacher allows for the students to be developmentally different - it starts to get difficult when you've got over a two year spread!

 

[disykat]

Originally posted by debster812
[B. He made the cutoff by well over a month, however, my parents held him back.

A month is not a big deal IMO. Here it is very common for parents to hold kis back if they make it by 6 months. They want their child to be the smartest, tallest kid in the class so that he/she will more like be class president, etc.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I see no reason for a national policy.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Just wanted to add:

I certainly agree that children can be *ready* in one aspect and not others. And I think for children that fall into that category holding them back is the best thing. I just don't like to paint all children with a broad brush.

As I acknowledge the above does occur. The opposite occurs as well. There is a spectrum of possibilities. I must restate that I believe that displayed readiness and moving ahead is optimal (IMO).

I don't think of education as a *race* to the finish line. I think of it in terms of non restrictive learning.

I have a degree in education (NK-4) and have taught preschool. My neice's example illustrates my POV best.

 

[sammy66]

I'd like to see a National cut off date. Even state wide would be great.

When I started school in 1969, I was exactly 4 1/2. Started school in September and didn't turn 5 until the next March. Moved to a different city and needless to say, it caused problems my whole life.
My daughters were both born in 1989, one in Feb. and one in Dec. The cut off date in my city was December 31st. Now I have two daughters in 10th grade. Causes nothing but problems because the older one should have been held back every year. Now how can I hold back the oldest and let the young one go on.

My nephew who is three weeks older than my younger daughter is one year behind them both because he started school the next city over. Mind you, we all live in the same city.

Now for my son, he is the oldest in his class, born on July 2nd and the cut off date was Aug 31st. I chose to hold him back because he's so shy. I figured better to be the oldest than the youngest. Well guess what, he doesn't play sports with any of his school mates because of the sports cut off date.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if one city chooses to have an August 31st cut off, then why can't they all. And why are the sports cut off dates all July 1st instead of the same August 31 st as the school.

BTW. The cut off date in my city was changed in 1990 from Dec 31st to Oct 31st, then again in 1991 to Aug 31st. The next city, the one my nephew started school in is Sept 31st, always has been.

Oh, and if I wasn't so stupid and naiive at the time, I would have held my younger daughter back too, in case your wondering why I didn't.

 

[DVC Daisy]

Pinnie said it so well!

As the mom of a late fall DS I chose to give my son a "bonus year" as they call it here. He has 10 friends that have birthdays within weeks of him. Three are a grade ahead of him (Freshmen) and the balance are in 8th grade. EVERY ONE of the kids (both girls and boys) wish they were in or are glad they are in 8th grade. EVERY ONE. This is from the kids themselves. There are so many reasons besides schoolwork.

The main reason that all of these students want to be in the lower grade are for SOCIAL reasons. I guess it is more fun if you are the big kid then the small one. This seems to be true for both the girls and boys.

Other things to consider are sports (these kids do all play sports), going away to school as a 17 year old - yikes, and who wants their 13 year old daughter dating 18 year old men? A girl in 9th grade going out with a Senior - could happen.

The BIGGEST reasons to wait to send your kids to school do not seem to show up until much later than elementary school. My neice is one of the fall birthdays above and until the couple of years or so she (personally) thought it was "just fine where she was" (her words). Now within the last 2-3 years she is adamently opposed to her grade placement. She wishes she was in 8th grade.

 

[SRUAlmn]

I also agree with the comments that you should have to take a test to enter kdg and not just be a certain age. Like I mentioned before, I was MORE than ready for kdg at age 4, but my mom wanted to wait and send me the next year because she knew that as one of the youngest kids it would be harder for me socially. I did succeed, and I tested as gifted all throughout elem school. I was in the gifted program and loved it. Once I got to Middle School there was no gifted program. Once I was in 'regular' classes I got extremely bored. I didn't act out as another posted mentioned, but I did kind of give up. I never paid attention, I never studied, I never really had to.

When I went to college I had horrible study habits because I never had to 'work' before (and it was difficult for me in some of the harder classes,) but most of the time I could skip class, not study, write papers the night before and still get As. Now, at age 26, it's hard because I have NO work ethic. I've had 3 different jobs in 3 years because I don't feel like anything challenges me and when it periodically does, I don't know how to handle it.

So my advice to you parents of the kids who you feel are 'gifted' is to always make sure they are being challenged and don't let the school system stifle their abilities. I totally agree that it is based on the individual child and not an age.

(I really don't mean to sound braggy, so sorry if I did. I just want parents to see how it is still affecting me as an adult.)

 

[Pinnie]

Originally posted by disykat

I think it is more the other way - people don't think about the consequences of having 19 year olds still in high school.

Yes, that does occasionally happen and parents need to ask themselves if they think that their 13 yr olds who started school as a 4 yr old will be ready to deal with those "older" students in HS? I know that there are many activities that 9th - 12 graders particpate in together such as marching band, school plays, teams, etc.

Again, school is MORE than just academics!

pinnie

 

[Madi100]

Originally posted by diznygirl
Every child is different - there should be no cutoff date. It should be based up skills. Maybe the preschool/kindergarten/1st grade thing needs to be rethought. Maybe a goup of these kids in one class until Jan and then split them up by ability.

My son turns 5 in December missing the Sept cut off date and can read and write - his friend who is 5 and in Kindergarten cannot read or write. My ds will have to wait a whole year until kindergarten - and who knows what he will be doing then!

Please know that I am not bragging - I just have seen too many kids labeled problems because they are bored by the work in school and make their own "fun" by acting out. I don't want my ds to become one of them. I'd rather he be in kindergarten right now being challenged by the work rather than in preschool learning his colors!!

I agree completely with this. I think the whole kindergarten cut-off is the most frustrating thing I have ever experience in my life. I think that we have excellent schools in this country. The whole new "No Child Left Behind" is a great concept. But, to me it seems that we are more concerned with children falling behind than we are about letting them excel.

Well, we have this lovely cut-off in Iowa for kindergarten, Sept. 12. I have a friend who planned her c-sections around that date so her kids could go to school early. One is on Septebmer 12. Our daugthers grew up together. Different personalities. Mine is shy, theirs is not. Mine is very sensitive, theirs is not. Physically, theirs is so far beyond mine. But, when my daughter is in 3rd grade there will still be 5 year olds who can run better than she can. Our little friend went to kindergarten when she was four. She turned five about a week later. My DD had to wait. So, we put her in a good preschool. We worked with her. She could read at age 4. We go to kindergarten orientation the next year, and they don't have a thing to teach her. They tested her reading level and stopped when they got to the 3rd grade reading level. So, they moved her to 1st grade. She skipped kindergarten. And, we had to fight for this. We could have just let her sit back and enjoy the ride, but she's smart, and she should not be held back.

Honestly, I think that nation wide we should test to go into kindergarten. Those summer birthdays should have to test, and in the extreme case, although younger to test also. And, if there is a five year old child that is not ready for kindergarten or first grade test them and handle the situation appropriately. Age doesn't make a person ready for an experience.

 

[mom2boys]

To enter the FCPS kindergarten program in August, a child must observe the 5th birthday on or before October 31, 2004. Maryland is phasing in a change in the minimum age of kindergartners. For 2005-06, students must be 5 on or before September 30, 2005. For 2006-07 and after, students must be 5 on or before September 1. Children entering first grade must have completed public kindergarten or a Maryland-approved alternate program.

(I posted this on another thread also).

My youngest has a June 29th birthday. Even though the cut-off for his kindergarten year was 12/31, I wish I had held him out another year. His maturity level just isn't there. I feel the extra year's maturity would have helped his self-confidence tremendously. After a year of 1/2 Kindergarten, I asked his school to place him in all-day kindergarten instead of 1st grade. No dice & since DH didn't feel strongly about it, I dropped the issue. Biggest child rearing decision I ever made. He spent the 1st 6 weeks of 1st grade trying to find ways to get out of the classroom. He just wasn't ready to sit a desk all day long.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Funny thing, I was a younger student. Graduated at 17. Never gave it a thought. Birthdays weren't a big deal. Didn't miss anything, didn't *discuss* being younger with other students. It just wasn't a big deal. I didn't feel different at all.

 

[SRUAlmn]

I just read what Pinnie said about his/her son. I was on the other side of that 'argument.' As a girl who went to kdg at age 5 almost 6 I was always one of the oldest. I got my period in 4th grade and was made fun of to no end. I started getting breasts in 4th grade and was teased like you wouldn't believe. I was taller than everyone ALWAYS. I stood out because I was developing and no one else was. I still, to this day, have a horrible body image and am VERY self conscious about how I look because I was teased so much. I started to gain weight in 4th grade because I was teased and humiliated and my body was changing and since then have struggled with my weight my whole life. So I guess there is really no right answer. Kids will always feel different and left out. I guess it's just a matter of being left out of 'older' things or being left out of 'younger' things.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

The cutoff date was recently changed to Sept 1 from Dec 31. Thank God my kids started school before this. I would have sent my October birthday DD to a private school for as long as I had to to establish her grade if they had changed it before she started. She's always been well-behaved, mature and bright, and is now a straight A student in the Honors program at the high school. Had she stayed back a year, she'd have been bored to tears.

I agree with disykat about how many parents keep their kids back a year so that they're the oldest, and "smartest". Amazingly enough, there will ALWAYS be a youngest kid in the class...if it's my kid, that'd be fine with me.

Pinnie, the fact that there will be way more 19 year olds in high school, so therefore I should hold my own chld back academically, is hardly a valid argument. The school systems are creating the 19 year olds still in high situation, they better be able to deal with it. Next thing you know, there will be more and more people whose child has a "just before the September/August/July/June cutoff" birthday who don't want THEIR child being the youngest or least "smart", and THEY'LL hold THEM back, and on and on and on. I repeat...there will always be a youngest child in a class.

 

[diznygirl]

SRUalmn has lived it. So has my brother - and his son is living it now. The reports always state "Does not apply himself." Once the first grade teacher saw the test scores of my nephew half way through the year, she noticed he was smarter than he ever let on. She gives him extra work and he is doing great. But it's up to the teachers to do this.

Not to slam teachers, because I have a bunch of close friends teaching, but it makes the teacher's job easier if they don't have to treat one kids special. It is easier to teach everyone the same thing, whether it is too easy or too hard for them. Meanwhile, once you are in class with a group, they want to be able to keep the group together, thus the phenomenon of "social advancement" - not holding the struggling kids back who could benefit from repeating a grade.

This debate is a nice diverson from watching Frances coverage!

 

[Crankyshank]

My parents had 2 children born less than a week before the cutoff date (myself born dec 29th when the cutoff was dec 31st, and my sister born Aug 26th when the cutoff was moved to Aug 31st). They sent me to kindergarten at 4, and my sister was held back a year.

I can honestly tell you that sending me to K at 4 was a horrible decision. I could read at 3 and there was no pre-school option at the time, which is why my parents sent me to private school. Academically I was among the top of my class, but it was a constant social struggle for me.

I had the same problems SRUAlmn had. Only to make it worse I was the youngest in the class (the other Dec kids were all held back before K except for 1 other girl), I was the tallest in the class, and I still developed 2yrs earlier than everyone else did. Try being a year younger, almost a foot taller than your male classmates, and being a D cup when you're 13. Not a pleasant social experience for an all ready introverted child and the horrible body image is still with me. and I also have problems applying myself because of the ease in which I found classes to be. I especially have difficulty applying myself in subjects I find boring and struggle with (math).

My sister, born 10yrs after me, is almost the complete opposite. She had seperation anxiety so my parents decided to hold her in pre-school another year. She graduated 2mos before her 19th birthday. She was a social success, an academic success, and an athlete. Most of her friends, and her high school boyfriend, were/are almost a year younger than she is but it never affected her at all. For her, being held back was the right decision. But don't get me wrong, she also has problems applying herself because she never had to work at her studies

 

[padams]

In Georgia, the cut off is 9/1. In the metro Atlanta area, many parents, especially parents of boys, try to hold their children back so they won't be the youngest. No one around here that I know of tries to get their child in early.

There is a boy in DS' 1st grade class with an April 1 birthday (he'll be 8 next spring). His parents held him back because they didn't want him to be in the middle of the class academically, socially, and in sports. They want him to be at the top of the class on everything. He is older than some of his classmates by more than a year.

I have a friend who has been trying to talk the school into holding back her Feb. born son who is short so he won't be the shortest in the class (he's a 1st grader).

DS has a Dec. birthday, and he is one of the youngest in his class because holding back is so common here.

 

[Microcell]

Originally posted by DisneyNutMary
Dec 31st in New York. That way all kids born in a certain year are together.

I think that works out fine, all kids in 1993 are now entering 6th grade, it's easy to remember.

The problem with that back in 1978 is that my mom had a choice to put me in as a December B-day and for emotional reasons she thought I needed to wait a year. I was always the oldest in class. Is that true today?

Our cut off is July 31st

 

[katerkat]

I think it depends on the child. My sister had a November bday, I was August. My parents started my older sister when she was almost 6, and me after I had just turned five. My sister would have done much better if she had started a year earlier, I would have been better if my parents waited a year.

Now, I'm so anal-retentive that this was one of the things I planned for my kids. I wanted a spring baby so this wouldn't be a debate at all. Flybaby should be 5.5 years old when s/he goes to kindergarten, right in the middle.