Kids on shoulders

[BugsDaddy]

Sorry, but I disagree. I don't have kids and I think I have just as much right to see a parade or fireworks as the kids do. And if an adult waits until the last minute to put a kid on his or her shoulders, where am I supposed to move to?



Not true. Walt Disney created Disneyland as a place where parents and children could have fun together. He came up with the idea while sitting on a bench watching his daughters ride a merry-go-round.

Isn't that what I just said? Without kids and parents, there would be no Disneyworld. Disneyworld was created as a place for kids and parents to have fun. Parents support the world with their dollars and Disney keeps the fun rolling in. If Disney had to rely solely on the revenue of those adults without children looking to relive their childhood, the park would be bankrupt. So, it is not unreasonable to think that Disney probably bends over backwards to cater to their main audience. That being said, everyone should be able to appreciate Disney and have a good time. Maybe there should just be a little more consideration given to the 4 year old trying to watch their first parade as was probably given to you when you were their age.

 

[20yBWDW]

I guess we know now who are the ones putting the kids on their shoulders.


If you want to do that, it's fine. Just put them up when you arrive there so I know when I arrive whether I need to move. It's the people doing it at the last minute I have no patience with. It is completely self-centered, done by people who think their experience is more important than anyone else's.

You know darn good and well that by the time you hoist your kids up there isn't any room for most people to move to a new spot.

We are not kids on shoulders people. I don't think we have ever done it. Other than the one parade I mentioned above, we did not see any parades on our last trip. The one I mentioned was the one we tried to get in line ahead of time, after a whole week of missing parades because the good viewing spots are taken two hours in advance by adults who have longer attention spans and are more capable of going that long without a potty break. We have just accepted that my kids will wait until they are teenagers to see the MSEP. But I actually give a lot of credit to the people who do go ahead and hoist their kids. They may be less considerate strangers, but they are better parents than me.

 

[mom2rtk]

Isn't that what I just said? Without kids and parents, there would be no Disneyworld. Disneyworld was created as a place for kids and parents to have fun. Parents support the world with their dollars and Disney keeps the fun rolling in. If Disney had to rely solely on the revenue of those adults without children looking to relive their childhood, the park would be bankrupt. So, it is not unreasonable to think that Disney probably bends over backwards to cater to their main audience. That being said, everyone should be able to appreciate Disney and have a good time. Maybe there should just be a little more consideration given to the 4 year old trying to watch their first parade as was probably given to you when you were their age.

Or maybe you should find your spot earlier. Or hold your child on your hip.

That said, we have often let small children in front of us. But their parents have to be comfortable staying behind us.

 

[Sparkly]

Wow. You're not convincing anyone anything but you being a selfish person. You're part of the problem by being selfish and believing the world revolves around your kids and nothing else.

Also, lack of your planning on your part= not our problem.

 

[mom2rtk]

We are not kids on shoulders people. I don't think we have ever done it. Other than the one parade I mentioned above, we did not see any parades on our last trip. The one I mentioned was the one we tried to get in line ahead of time, after a whole week of missing parades because the good viewing spots are taken two hours in advance by adults who have longer attention spans and are more capable of going that long without a potty break. We have just accepted that my kids will wait until they are teenagers to see the MSEP. But I actually give a lot of credit to the people who do go ahead and hoist their kids. They may be less considerate strangers, but they are better parents than me.

But I don't agree that being inconsiderate to strangers makes you a better parent. Good parenting isn't about getting what your child wants if it is inconsiderate to someone else.

You might want to consider using a FP for MSEP viewing on your next trip.

 

[20yBWDW]

Wow. 20yBWDW, stop posting from multiple accounts to try and make it seem like there's more then one person who agrees with you. You're not convincing anyone anything but you being a selfish person. You're part of the problem by being selfish and believing the world revolves around your kids and nothing else.

Also, lack of your planning on your part= not our problem.

Huh? I only have one account.

 

[spritna]

I ask the dad nicely..if he doesnt comply..i then whisper in his ear "you can avoid a physical confrontation if you politely move..otherwise im going to throw u a beatn"

 

[Sparkly]

Huh? I only have one account.

My apologies then.

 

[20yBWDW]

But I don't agree that being inconsiderate to strangers makes you a better parent. Good parenting isn't about getting what your child wants if it is inconsiderate to someone else.

You might want to consider using a FP for MSEP viewing on your next trip.

It's not that being inconsiderate makes you a better parent, but being able to put your kids above strangers sometimes, when the strangers are putting themselves first, does.

 

[BugsDaddy]

Or maybe you should find your spot earlier. Or hold your child on your hip.

That said, we have often let small children in front of us. But their parents have to be comfortable staying behind us.

In Walt Disney's time, no one could probably even imagine an adult pushing a kid out of the way to watch the Mickey Mouse float go by. It just didn't happen. Now, people without kids seem to have some sort of irrational aggressiveness towards people with kids, even in places primarily designed for children. It amazes me when people go to a theme park built for the enjoyment of families and then complain about all the annoying kids. It is not even rational.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's not that being inconsiderate makes you a better parent, but being able to put your kids above strangers sometimes, when the strangers are putting themselves first, does.

It's teaching children that what they want is more important than what everyone else around them wants. It's setting a bad example.

In Walt Disney's time, no one could probably even imagine an adult pushing a kid out of the way to watch the Mickey Mouse float go by. It just didn't happen. Now, people without kids seem to have some sort of irrational aggressiveness towards people with kids, even in places primarily designed for children. It amazes me when people go to a theme park built for the enjoyment of families and then complain about all the annoying kids. It is not even rational.

Did I miss the part where someone was pushing kids out of the way?

I also find it perplexing when people complain about all the kids at Disney. But that's not what's happening here. People are complaining that others are being rude and self-centered.

 

[Sparkly]

It's teaching children that what they want is more important than what everyone else around them wants. It's setting a bad example.

Exactly!! I was taught that the world doesn't revolve around me early. I'm no important then anyone else and so isn't your kid.

 

[Love Tink]

When I was a kid, there is no way a kid would be blocked from seeing a parade/fireworks because all of the spots were taken two hours in advance by adults who wanted to see the parade and refused to give up the spot they waited for to appease a child. My memories of parades in childhood were always of adults standing back and allowing the kids to have the prime viewing locations.

We're definitely not shoulders people - if anything, I was a hip person, and my kids have always been, "Why are we watching a parade when there are rides to ride?" people. And I know you are in the minority.

But I think you've made an interesting and valid point here. People on here often write about how rude kids have become and how parents don't do their job anymore (a refrain heard from every middle-age-and-beyond demographic since the Renaissance). But when I imagine my grandparents at Disneyland 40 years ago, I know that they weren't resentfully boxing kids out from seeing the parade. They would have let the kids go in front without question.

 

[Mome Rath]

I have a degree in sociology and have studied psychology as well, could you expand on the data that proves that kids do not behave as well? How was this measured? Who were the researchers? Where can I read the studies?

I'm well out of grad school and don't have my books or papers any more, but you can Google for things such as "behavior problems reported in schools," look at percentages, etc... You can also dig into studies focused on generational differences. The percentage of behavioral issues and diagnosable problems is rising in grade schools.

I'm not talking about young adults out of high school. I'm talking about children.

I'm talking about the whole spread unfortunately.

And I think you missed my point. My point WAS that the freedom children were allowed to have in generations passed helped them work off the energy, and that today's children are frustrated and acting out from that frustration. It's not that they are not as well behaved. It's that they do not have an outlet where they can behave in ways that are now considered misbehavior.

But, that is my point as well... though I am indeed calling it misbehavior. The children are indeed frustrated, but that's an explanation, not an excuse. I think we are in agreement, though you seem to think I'm blaming the kids; far from it.

My children range from 4 to 8. I am around children in that age range every single day of my life, not just mine, but multiple children. I volunteer in the schools, we go out into public, I have coached sports, and I have never once seen a child "allowed" to hit an adult intentionally.

I've witnessed children hitting their own parents at Disney, as well as being on the receiving end of being stepped on and prodded by a child around 9 or 10 years of age. The kid knew they had done it, continued to do it, and the parents even saw it multiple times. Nothing was done, nothing was said, and I did indeed have to move to make it stop. I'm a slightly built, shy, 30 something polite female that doesn't like confrontation, nor do I like being on the receiving end of misbehaving children and parents. It's just seems to be part of the culture in some areas of the U.S. at this time.

When you were a child at Disney, others' comfort was just as important or more so to your parents, because the world we lived in then was that everyone put others' equal or above themselves. Those "others" were putting your comfort first, and your parents responded by putting theirs first. In today's world, people have absolutely no desire to put other people's children first, unless they themselves have children and understand. So it's left to the parents--if random stranger is putting random stranger first, and I put randoms stranger first, my kid gets the shaft. So if random stranger is putting himself first, then I can put my kid first to balance it out.

But that's my point; times have changed and everyone should be more cognizant of others' comfort. I readily invite kids to stand in front of me, invite kids and their moms to sit on the bus while I stand, etc... and I just happen to feel that it is indeed up to the parent to model proper behavior and manners to their kids. Pushing in front of me and my mother to watch wishes at the last minute and then putting your older child up on your shoulders to watch and me not having anywhere to move so that my mom can see isn't proper. I don't have kids of my own, but have a herd of nieces, nephews, and cousins, and they need correcting and corralling too. Often it isn't the misbehaving that's the problem, it is the lack of response from the supervising adult.

 

[20yBWDW]

It's teaching children that what they want is more important than what everyone else around them wants. It's setting a bad example.



Did I miss the part where someone was pushing kids out of the way?

I also find it perplexing when people complain about all the kids at Disney. But that's not what's happening here. People are complaining that others are being rude and self-centered.

That's the way of the world, though. When I was a kid, people put the young, the old, the disabled first. Today, everyone puts themselves first.

We do not teach our children to look out for themselves first, by the way. I require my children to be more considerate of others. What I teach my children has basically turned them all into doormats. They are constantly asking me why they have to do x,y,z to be considerate of others when nobody has to do it for them. And frankly, I have wondered if I have set them up for failure because I am trying to raise them with the values that my parents raised me. Which are values that worked in a world where everyone was learning them, but not everyone is now. Which is evident by adults who sit on curbs 2.5 hours before the parade starts, then stand up in front of children at the start of the parade, and adults who jump into the spot a child vacated momentarily to ask their mom a question, while mom stood back behind the crowd to leave more room for other children and adults without children who really, really wanted to see the parade enough to push children out of the way. And even adults who just stand there in a group, knowing they are blocking the way of every child behind them, and not caring at all. Or my personal favorite, the one adult who saved a spot for seven, and never bothered to mention it when our kids sat down behind them, only to have the seven stand and block the view. I still require my children to just accept the disappointment as we find something else to do, but I cannot at all judge the parents who choose to put their kids on their shoulders to see the parade, because I think they are being good parents to look out for their kids in a world that no longer sees it as something we should all do.

 

[BugsDaddy]

We're definitely not shoulders people - if anything, I was a hip person, and my kids have always been, "Why are we watching a parade when there are rides to ride?" people. And I know you are in the minority.

But I think you've made an interesting and valid point here. People on here often write about how rude kids have become and how parents don't do their job anymore (a refrain heard from every middle-age-and-beyond demographic since the Renaissance). But when I imagine my grandparents at Disneyland 40 years ago, I know that they weren't resentfully boxing kids out from seeing the parade. They would have let the kids go in front without question.

And I bet your grandparents wouldn't have ever had a thought come in to their heads that, "I paid to be here too, why should I let this little kid get in front of me."

Maybe some of these adults reliving their childhood while standing in front of a small child at the parade should learn a very simple lesson that children will learn how to be considerate only when someone shows them consideration.

 

[glvsav37]

I ask the dad nicely..if he doesnt comply..i then whisper in his ear "you can avoid a physical confrontation if you politely move..otherwise im going to throw u a beatn"

I seriously hope you are being sarcastic, if not, i would love for you to try this to me one day. Please I hope you are behind me and try this ****, trust me it would be the last time. Who the F gives you any more right to get physical with anyone over their right to hold their child any GD way they choose

Tell me...what exactly would you do to someone physically while they were holding their kid?

And everyone says people with kids on their shoulders are the entitled ones?????



If you have not guessed by now, yes, I have no problem with my 3 year old on my shoulders. But I would only do it if I am behind or in the middle of the crowd where there is absolutely no way for him to see. If we were in the front row for parades, we all sit. But the is no "front row" for wishes or any fireworks. And while it's not ALL about the kids, trust me they have a hell of a harder time being 40 inches tall and trying to see around full grown adults then it is for you to see around the extra foot and a half on my shoulders.


"but why don't you carry them on yo hip?". Have you ever held 45lbs of anything on your hip for close to an hour??? In the hot and sticky Florida humidity ??

Having them on my shoulders is no joy either, but it's a lot better then on the hip. Plus, they are filling the spot between me and the person next to me, exactly where the row behind us should be looking.

Not to mention, there is no place else I want him during the god awful stampede out after wishes where he could get swept away or trampled by the hordes of people who absolutely must make th next monorail.

I love how everyone screams the I am stupid, ignorant, lack respect, whatever for holding my kid on my shoulders, yet you have no issue telling anyone else how YOU WANT them to behave. I'm sorry if you are disabled or otherwise, I have no problem working out a solution with you if you ask kindly, heck I prob did not realize you were behind me. But you bigger issue is with WDW and why there is no disabled viewing areas.

What I am thankful is that there are places my family can view the fireworks from where I don't have to deal with the people who feel its their right to tell me that I'm wrong bc I'm ruin their enjoyment. Its worth the extra cost.

 

[Sparkly]

This topic sure has brought out the entitlement in people

 

[mom2rtk]

That's the way of the world, though. When I was a kid, people put the young, the old, the disabled first. Today, everyone puts themselves first.

Yes they do. Sadly. Including the ones who believe they should continue riding rides while I sit on a curb, then push me out of the way so they can have a good place to watch too.

 

[20yBWDW]

Regarding the behavior problems reported in schools--I have no problem believing that there are more reported, but I am shocked at some of the things my friends' kids have gotten written up for. When I was in fifth grade, the whole grade had a 3-month spree of "depantsing" each other and nobody was written up. Do you know what would happen if someone tried that now? One of my kids' friends lost recess for a week because he pulled on the hood of someone sweatshirt. Another lost it for a day because he skipped instead of walked in the hallway. And then kids being expelled for things like the finger gun, taking bubbles shaped like a gun or saying "I'm going to kill you" in the way that we used to say for "I'm mad". An increase in reported behavior problems is NOT a reflection of an actual increase in behavior problems. Kids get in trouble a lot more frequently in my kids' school than they ever did in mine, but most of the kids look like Stepford children in the school every time I am there to volunteer.