Kerry and Bush supporters. A question for y'all.

[Lebjwb]

Originally posted by dckiss
Lebjwb,

I'm not going to go through every one of the questions that I addressed but I will address one and that was the whole point of Bush Lied about the WMD's. READ THE 9/11 REPORT!!!!! Plus there is no reason to be rude to me or anyone else just because I don't happen to agree with you! This board is about opinions some of my opinions were backed with facts and some were not. I tried to state which was the case eiither way.

I am Republican however I don't believe that the Republicans have alll the answers. I do believe there are some very good Democrats Joe Lieberman being one. I do my best to be objective and choose, in my opinion, the best man based on voteing records and behavior in the public forum. However, if you disagree with my choice or opinions and you wish to state so I welcome your comments, who knows you might turn me around. But if your going to be rude and call me names that accomplishes nothing. After all this board is suppose to be about Disney. From my early days of watching the Mickey Mouse Club I learned to be polite and respect others. I would encourage you in future post to be polite.

Thank You and Have a Magical Day!

Dan

The thread is provacative in it's question. You're going to get passionate responses. This isn't the forum to come to if you want all warm and fuzzy.

Bush is a liar IMHO. His lies have caused misery for thousands. You support Bush and his policies, you help spread those half-truths.... you take some moral responsibility with that stand.

Bush is advocating an amendment to the Constitution that discriminates against a segment of our community. He advocates DISCRIMINATION. You support Bush, you are for discrimination. You stand up for him, you stand up for his policies. You better be prepared to take the heat.
Pre emptive strikes against soverign nations is not what this country is all about, I don't care how you spin it. It denegrates the country and that makes me angry and motivated.

If I come off as rude and ticked off... tough. This is the most important election in my lifetime...and I've seen some whoppers. IMHO if Bush weasels his way back into the WH, the country that I love, the country that my ancestors fought for, bled for, will cease to exsist. What comes out of the other end of 4 years of Bush will be the US of A in name only. Our open and inclusive society, those very values that made this country great will be no more. Anyone who speaks for this administration is fair game and I will use every legal resource at my disposal to attack them in anyway I can. This isn't "Pixie Dust" time Dan. I'm fighting for my kids future.

 

[disney4us2002]

As I predicted it is getting a bit deep.

Bedknobbery, I am not late to this topic yet I don't agree that the rudeness and mud-slinging is equally split among those who support Bush and those who support Kerry. I do not doubt that you will claim it is merely because I support Bush. So be it. I have a list that I started just for my own reference which includes many of the nasty comments made and by whom and that list is greater than the total number of Bush defenders in this thread and the others. I cannot possibly see how the number of mud-slingers can be equal. I've already been told that I am just too sensitive.

Then to make matters worse (or obvious I suppose) is that the poster above claims that anyone who supports the Bush administration is fair game for attack?? Please tell me how I have apparently misread his statement. I must have, right? I mean attacking on the Dis is clearly not permitted.

 

[BedKnobbery2]

I'm not claiming it is a more or less equal exchange because you support Bush; I'm saying it is a more or less equal exchange because, well, it is. I'm not talking about this thread particularly; I'm talking about the political threads here on the DIS, both on the CB and on the DB before its demise. If you don't think that there are people here who are equally as disrespectful and rude towards Kerry as there are those towards Bush, well, not sure what to tell ya except maybe you haven't seen all the posts I'm thinking of? Or perhaps you don't consider some things (i.e. "Kerry is a traitor") mud-slinging that I would consider as such.

Regarding Lebjwb, I suppose you could read it that way. I take it as he's saying that accusations and assertions won't go unchallenged by him if he thinks they are wrong.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Lebjwb
The thread is provocative in it's question. You're going to get passionate responses. This isn't the forum to come to if you want all warm and fuzzy.

Bush is a liar IMHO. His lies have caused misery for thousands. You support Bush and his policies, you help spread those half-truths.... you take some moral responsibility with that stand.

Bush is advocating an amendment to the Constitution that discriminates against a segment of our community. He advocates DISCRIMINATION. You support Bush, you are for discrimination. You stand up for him, you stand up for his policies. You better be prepared to take the heat.
Pre emptive strikes against sovereign nations is not what this country is all about, I don't care how you spin it. It denigrates the country and that makes me angry and motivated.

If I come off as rude and ticked off... tough. This is the most important election in my lifetime...and I've seen some whoppers. IMHO if Bush weasels his way back into the WH, the country that I love, the country that my ancestors fought for, bled for, will cease to exist. What comes out of the other end of 4 years of Bush will be the US of A in name only. Our open and inclusive society, those very values that made this country great will be no more. Anyone who speaks for this administration is fair game and I will use every legal resource at my disposal to attack them in anyway I can. This isn't "Pixie Dust" time Dan. I'm fighting for my kids future.

Just had to respond even though this reply wasn't to me.

It would be easy for me to stoop to your level, but I won't. I understand that people can and should be passionate about their convictions. But to get nasty about is uncalled for.
And since you don't care for ilk like me, heck, I've never been called ilk before, it probably won't matter what I say. I believe what I believe. I know what I know. I can separate the BS from the truth (most of the time). I don't hate Kerry, I don't trust that he would be right for the country at this time. Probably never as a matter of fact.

If you feel that 4 more years of Bush would be the end of the USA as you know it. That's your choice. I completely disagree. If Bush wins again, lets check back here in 4 1/2 years to see how things turned out.

But for now, it's a complete was of my time to try and have a civilized discourse with you.

Have a great day!

 

[dckiss]

Its a shame when people can't discuss things rationally. Rational Discussion is the means to solveing issues. I don't mistake rudeness for passion. Rudness is what uneducated people resort to when they get shown up. I am not saying that I have shown you up I am simply stateing that People tend to get mad when they are asked to look at things a different way and they don't want too. You are right this is an important election and there are some important issues on the table. However, I would point out that reguardless of who is elected most of our lives are not going to change much if at all. No matter who is president he will still have to deal with congress. The decisions that congress makes has a lot more to do with our lives than what the president does. I am not saying that the President is not important he is but we have more than one branch of government. I remember when President Clinton was running for his 2nd term I heard people running around much like you are now saying the sky is falling the sky is falling. And guess what we have moved right along.

My final and last point in this form will be this. I have not insulted you one time. I've just disa/greed with you. And to be honest I really question how informed you are. Most of what you have stated has been off of commercials and sound bites. I would encourage you to read the 9/11 report. I would also encourage you to read Unfit for command by the Swift Boat Captains. Then turn around and read a book that bashes Bush. Research the information try and keep an open mind while you gather the facts. Read the official Documents for your self don't trust someone else. You know what you probably willl still vote for Kerry because of your hatred of our President but you will be informed and you will hate our President for the right reasons. I respect your opinion reguardless if you take my advice or not. I just don't feel like you should be rude to others if you don't agree with them. You win more flies with Honey than you do Vinager. Hatred breads Hatred. This is all I have to say on the subject. You can have the last word or two if you wish. And by the way I stand by my Mickey Mouse Club comments. Respect for others!

Im out Have a Magical Day,

Dan

 

[Lebjwb]

DCKISS...Your comments regarding my being un-educated and repeating sound bites off of commercials are baseless. I get my news from literally hundreds of different sources daily, the least of which are the ABC,FOX,CNN,NBC crowd. I own probably 200 books on American History and have read hundreds more.


Bush is a liar IMHO. His lies have caused misery for thousands. You support Bush and his policies, you help spread those half-truths.... you take some moral responsibility with that stand.


I'll stand by the above statement 'til the cows come home.

This is the last I'm going to say on the subject...If you back Bu$h, trumpet him as some sort of warrior hero, you are morally responsible for the misery he causes and that's a bigger insult then anything I've tossed out on this forum.

 

[jrydberg]

Just a word of advice here, but in my opinion outbursts, while they may be satisfying, do not help one's arguments. In my view, they weaken them considerably.

A good, strong position does not need name calling and insults to buttress it. It stands on its own.

 

[Rokkitsci]

amen

 

[Rokkitsci]

It is a human failing that when confronted with something distasteful, one may lash out at the offending entity - whether it be another person, an animal, or an inanimate object such as a lawnmower that just won't start.

HOWEVER - when one has time to sit and collect one's thoughts, it appears to me to be a reflection of the shallowness of their arguement if all that they can summon up is insult, and smear.

I can assure you that I have reached the boiling point several times reading the genuinely insipid remarks - made by both sides but overwhelmingly by the "ilk" of Peachgirl, Lebjwb, and others.

I continue to think that one should ignore anyone who they think is blathering or lying. I try to remember what my mother once told me:

"Son - don't rassle with pigs - you both get dirty and the pig actually enjoys it."

My only mission here is to try to discern the messages that seep out from all the angst, and to try to articulate my position concerning those issues. Anyone who thinks I am lying, or making things up, or parroting someone else are of no interest to me. My opinions - and the logic they are based on - are all written in as clear a manner as is possible for me to accomplish.

Take it or leave it - if you disagree, then perhaps we can have a logical discussion about the differences. Calling me a liar or a parrot has the same effect as spitting into the wind.

 

[peachgirl]

And here I was thinking how calm things had become on the CB in the last day or so....

HOWEVER - when one has time to sit and collect one's thoughts, it appears to me to be a reflection of the shallowness of their arguement if all that they can summon up is insult, and smear.

Well then apparently you didn't have time to sit and collect your thoughts before you posted because your post is a perfect example of what you complain about.

I can assure you that I have reached the boiling point several times reading the genuinely insipid remarks - made by both sides but overwhelmingly by the "ilk" of Peachgirl, Lebjwb, and others.

I call the above lashing out, so I suppose it is simply a reflecton of the shallowness of your argument when all you can summon up is insult and smear.

Calling me a liar or a parrot has the same effect as spitting into the wind.

And calling my remarks insipid and by inference calling me a liar, comparing me to a pig and saying I'm blathering will get the spit blown right back in your face as well.


The "ilk" of Peachgirl???? Just what exactly is my "ilk"????

By the way, if reading posts on the Dis get you to the boiling point, you're taking internet bulletin boards much too seriously.

Although I have to admit that blatant hypocrisy does tend to make me a bit angry.....

 

[Rokkitsci]

PeachGirl =

Simmer down Petunia. You may have noted that I have never bothered to address any comments to you directly until now.

I prefer to discuss issues, but you have jumped in my face once too often. Begone.

now for a bath

 

[peachgirl]

You may have noted that I have never bothered to address any comments to you directly until now.

Yes, I did and I am sooooo hurt!....


Actually, the thought never occurred to me one way or the other.
But what that has to do with your whine about people being insulting while you proceed to be insulting yourself is beyond me.

I prefer to discuss issues, but you have jumped in my face once too often

And am I ever sorry I did, boy you sure taught me a lesson!

Begone?

Don't count on it.......

 

[faithinkarma]

I just want to add about #3 that I could care less what Bush did to avoid Vietnam. I don't care what he did in the National Guard. I think his avoidance of overseas service shows wisdom.

Holy cow, I hardly know where to start. Wisdom???? Using one's connections to avoid danger is now called wisdom? Does that mean all those who died in this war were unwise? If those who were drafted and died for their country were unwise, I guess that makes those who volunteered down right stupid.

Leads me to wonder.....where would this country be if all were as wise as Bush?

 

[Rokkitsci]

Here is a good rule for those who wish to enter into a rational discussion. Certainly, if one wishes to have me join into the debate, here are the rules:

1) decide if the person has any credibility on the issue discussed in the message. If not, ignore - and move on to another person, issue, or time. Responding to a non-credible source just adds heat, not illumination.

2) read what the person is TRYING to say and respond to that. Assuming that the person is credible (see rule 1) then take up semantics and imagery under a different issue. Respond to the issue that you feel you are credible on, giving your reasons for your stance.

3) avoid looking for things to get upset about. When you are reading an opposing viewpoint (again assuming credibility) you will miss the entire dialog if you INTENTIONALLY look for something that matches some pre-conceived notion of the "political image" you have of the group you oppose so you can deliver a canned response. If you look for that you will probably find it.

4) when you write something, check to see how it would sound if you reversed the primary names - i.e. Bush for Kerry or vice versa. If, when you make that conversion, your statements sounds like an insult, then it probably is an insult. If I am the reader, I invoke rule 1.

5) avoid land mines in your response. Spelling Bush as "bu$h' for example, degrades your message to a triviality. Likewise if you put something like "coward" or "traitor" in front of Kerry's name.
If you want to discuss the wealth of the two candidates - fine, make your point. If you want to discuss heroism - fine, make your point.

6) remember that almost everyone is really a good person. I have met very few people who match the venality of their posted messages in the way they actually live thier real lives. Few GOPers want to starve children. Few Democrats want to surrender to France.

7) don't run with scissors.

 

[Viking]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
.

Leads me to wonder.....where would this country be if all were as wise as Bush?

It would be empty, because most of you had died of Pretzels

 

[Grog]

Nice suggestions Rokkitsci, but most here will ignore them. It's not about rational discussion, but how many times you can zing the opposition.

 

[dckiss]

Hey has anyone been to Disney World Lately?

I say we close this board down and ALL head over there right now!!!!! That's right all Democrats, Republicans & Indipendants. Bush Haters, Kerry Haters & Nader Haters. As soon as we get to the Magic Kingdom lets head over to spash mountain that ought to cool everybody off! I don't think anybody is going to change their minds about the election or their love for Disney so lets go have fun. Come on over here Lebjwb (hug) I'm sure your a fine American lets get the wives and the kids together and you an I will debate wich is better those cool Mickey Mouse Icecream bars or else a sunday from the Icecream shop on Main Street U.S.A.

Love all over you reguardless of your point of view!!!

Dan (oh and by the way Lebjwb Please call Me Dan my friend)

 

[peachgirl]

That's Really One Long List!!

 

[disney4us2002]

Well, PG did it take you long to come up with that?

Hmmm, insipid? Definition per Webster's - lacking in qualities that interest, stimulate, or challenge.

Others can reach their own conclusion.

 

[Laz]

I'm sure your a fine American lets get the wives and the kids together and you an I will debate wich is better those cool Mickey Mouse Icecream bars or else a sunday from the Icecream shop on Main Street U.S.A.

FOOD FIGHT!!!!!!