Keith Olbermann

[Notatourist]

The mormon church gave n o monmey to this cause; members of the church did individually, but the church did not.

I'm sorry, you are incorrect there, they gave plenty to the twin brother of this hateful law, Amendment 2 here in Florida.



Oh, while I'm at it..

http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/?appSession=36747947066128

That's to the SF Gate Newspaper, which has a contribution calculator put together by the AP for Prop 8. Type in "Church of Latter Day Saints" which is the offical name of the Mormon Church. It will surprise you and sicken you.

It just wasn't Amendment 8 folks, 2 took away civil unions in Florida, not just for same sex couples but for hetero too...

And that's the problem. There needs to be a law that allows couples who don't want or can't go through the religious marriage to at least have the same rights. Without that, there is predjuice and that is wrong.

And good for Keith. Take a moment and read what he said or re-watch the video. He's right. It was only 41 years ago that there were laws against skin color and marriage.

 

[crcormier]

Many fear that allowing gay marriage will lead a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah of sorts. Unnatural sexual acts were occurring there, and many believe that allowing gay marriage legitimizes it and shows God that we endorse it.

Personally, at the moment, I think I will stay out of their business. Something would have to seriously change my mind on that, which is why I say at the moment.

Just as a note, the evil of Sodom and Gamorrah was about gang rapes and murders, not about homosexuality. It's been twisted by the opponents of homosexuality to be a story against it.

And do all the opponents of gay marriage also support an amendment to make divorce illegal? Both ideas defend 'traditional' marriage.

 

[LuvDuke]

Just as a note, the evil of Sodom and Gamorrah was about gang rapes and murders, not about homosexuality. It's been twisted by the opponents of homosexuality to be a story against it.

And do all the opponents of gay marriage also support an amendment to make divorce illegal? Both ideas defend 'traditional' marriage.

Why let facts get in the way of a good pontication?

 

[LuvDuke]

I'm sorry, you are incorrect there, they gave plenty to the twin brother of this hateful law, Amendment 2 here in Florida.



Oh, while I'm at it..

http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/?appSession=36747947066128

That's to the SF Gate Newspaper, which has a contribution calculator put together by the AP for Prop 8. Type in "Church of Latter Day Saints" which is the offical name of the Mormon Church. It will surprise you and sicken you.

It just wasn't Amendment 8 folks, 2 took away civil unions in Florida, not just for same sex couples but for hetero too...

And that's the problem. There needs to be a law that allows couples who don't want or can't go through the religious marriage to at least have the same rights. Without that, there is predjuice and that is wrong.

And good for Keith. Take a moment and read what he said or re-watch the video. He's right. It was only 41 years ago that there were laws against skin color and marriage.

Never underestimate the power of Floridians to screw themselves, then wake up in disbelief and try to make amends.

 

[Notatourist]

Never underestimate the power of Floridians to screw themselves, then wake up in disbelief and try to make amends.

Sadly that's so true Duke.

 

[Saxsoon]

Just as a note, the evil of Sodom and Gamorrah was about gang rapes and murders, not about homosexuality. It's been twisted by the opponents of homosexuality to be a story against it.

And do all the opponents of gay marriage also support an amendment to make divorce illegal? Both ideas defend 'traditional' marriage.

NIV Genesis 19: 4-5 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom- both young and old- surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Sanchez]

Geez, who do gays think they are ................... fellow human beings with civil rights protected by the Constitution? How dare they think they should be first-class citizens just like everyone else. The nerve.

Prop 8 is the last gasp of a group who have finally found the last group they can successfully discriminate against in this country. That will end with the next generation.:

It is not just the religious right responsible for this travesty. Religious groups and their members as a whole share the responsibility. If you include black and hispanic voters in the religious right then perhaps you are correct.

The numbers do not appear to be in dispute:

Black: 70% in favor
Hispanic: 53% in favor
White/Asian: 49% in favor



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/05/state/n111547S31.DTL

http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1378391.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/1...OTC-RSSFeed&source=RSS&attr=Horserace_4578832

It appears reasonable to believe that "new" voters in favor of Obama helped push this over the edge. It is shameful that we are celebrating the election of a black President while at the same time denying rights to many Americans. I cannot help but think Obama's own position on this issue was a factor.

This passed in California. Seems reasonable that it would pass by a large margin in my state.

 

[crcormier]

NIV Genesis 19: 4-5 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom- both young and old- surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Seems pretty clear to me.

Not men. Angels. It was about trying to usurp the power of angels that had come to visit Lot.

 

[lsyorke]

Gay Couples Can Start to Marry in Connecticut
Connecticut judge issues final judgment allowing same-sex marriages to begin Wednesday
By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN Associated Press Writer
NEW HAVEN, Conn. November 12, 2008 (AP) The Associated Press
A judge cleared the way Wednesday for gay marriage in Connecticut, a victory for advocates stung by California's referendum that banned same-sex unions in that state.........

continue at link

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=6235098

 

[Saxsoon]

Not men. Angels. It was about trying to usurp the power of angels that had come to visit Lot.

They don't know they are angels, and neither does Lot at this point in the story.

 

[MossMan]

NIV Genesis 19: 4-5 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom- both young and old- surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Seems pretty clear to me.

Listen to what Olbermann is saying. Sure, he puts some of the blame on religion.

But that isn't the point of the commentary. What Olbermann is doing is drawing a connection between the marriage rights of slaves and the marriage rights of homosexuals.

The reason he is doing this is to delicately rebuke african americans for not supporting gay rights. When Olbermann rebukes Mormons or any other religious organization, he doesn't feel the need to couch his criticisms with such delicacy. But since he is rebuking blacks for overwhelmingly supporting prop 8, he is being as careful as he can go make his point.

Lets face it, the reason prop 8 passed is because an unusually large number of African Americans showed up to vote because of Obama. But they overwhelmingly voted against gay rights. If Hillary had been running instead of Obama there wouldn't have been so many African Americans voting and prop 8 would have probably failed without their help.

We can turn this thread into a discussion of religious bigotry when it comes to homosexual rights. But the real story is the bigotry shown by African Americans to gays. That's what Olbermann was carefully getting at and it's worth a discussion by those who would like to tackle this issue forthrightly.

 

[RickyinNYC]

Cograts to the State of Connectiicut for doing the right thing.

 

[RickinNYC]

Sounds like drug users complaining their rights are being violated by the laws...

Don't like it??? Move to a country that has laws that fit your lifestyle..

And in a list of Top Ten wack jobs, Olbermann is right near the top, that guy is a goof ball..

So comparing gay marriage to drug users. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[RickinNYC]

No, the law states that NOBODY is allowed to have a same sex marriage, not sure what law you are reading..

This is truly the most ridiculous stance I've heard to date.

 

[RickinNYC]

I wouldn't call you ignorant, but if thats how you see yourself, thats too bad..

Perhaps we should also do away with DUI laws, shouldn't drunks be allowed to drive just like the rest of us?

And drunks. Nice.

 

[RickinNYC]

Hate? Where's the hate? Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean there's hate.

But the vilification of the "haters" is well documented.

How about homophobic then? You're homophobic. Does that make you feel any better?

 

[LuvDuke]

They don't know they are angels, and neither does Lot at this point in the story.

Honestly, since when do we base public policy on fictitious characters in fictitious books? When it comes to public policy, it wouldn't make a bit of difference if they were angels or chimpanzees.

Americans were denied their civil rights, via equal protection under the law, by their fellow citizens. For far too many, that was religiously based.

Geez, maybe the old Southern Baptists should've been allowed to a vote on whether or not to extend equal rights to blacks? It wasn't that long ago, 1995 to be exact, the Southern Baptists finally renounced racism. I wonder how they would've voted in 1965.

This entire argument of denying citizens their civil rights because of religious beliefs is a crock. People can believe whatever they want within their church. When they leave that church, the law is the Constitution.

But that isn't the point of the commentary. What Olbermann is doing is drawing a connection between the marriage rights of slaves and the marriage rights of homosexuals.

The fact is, it was religious groups who financed prop 8 and prop 2. It is particulary ironic that blacks would support an amendment financed by groups, specifically the Mormon church, who not so long ago considered them 2nd class citizens. It wasn't until 1978 that the Mormon church decided to allow blacks to join. It wasn't until 1995 the Southern Baptists renounced their racist past.

 

[RickinNYC]

You're asking the wrong person ..

Not necessarily. You're making it clear here and in other posts on other threads that you feel sexuality is a choice one must make. With that logic, you've had to make a conscious effort to live your life as a heterosexual (assuming you are).

On another note, why in the world are you always posting on every single thread that deals with anything gay? You seem to be more preoccupied about homosexuality than most of the gay men from the GLBT portion of the DIS. Why is that?

 

[LuvDuke]

Not necessarily. You're making it clear here and in other posts on other threads that you feel sexuality is a choice one must make. With that logic, you've had to make a conscious effort to live your life as a heterosexual (assuming you are).

On another note, why in the world are you always posting on every single thread that deals with anything gay? You seem to be more preoccupied about homosexuality than most of the gay men from the GLBT portion of the DIS. Why is that?

Looks like 10 points to me.

 

[RickinNYC]

Prop 8 is the last gasp of a group who have finally found the last group they can successfully discriminate against in this country. That will end with the next generation.

I disagree wholeheartedly. This country has historically always had a group that it has vilified:

African americans
Chinese
Irish
Italians
Jews
Japanese
Women
Overweight
Disabled
The list goes on

Once this whole mess with equality in marriage (or, to appease those that are fixed on word usage, civil unions) is resolved, there are those out there that will find yet another group to disdain and disparage. It's the way some folks' minds work. In order to gain leverage in their own small minds, they are compelled to find someone else to focus their dislike. Many of them can see themselves in the list above.

It's much easier to relieve one's small mind by focusing your own frustrations in your own inadequacies onto those you feel are the "other."