Just Back. Issue 1: Profiling at Park Entrance..

[policycobb]

Emptying your pockets, including cell phone and walking through a metal detector
That's it, unless you happen to set off the detector and then I suppose they wand, though I haven't experienced that myself

Exactly what they did to every person at the main gate of City Walk at Universal Studios the first week of March. The line was long but went quickly.

 

[smiths02]

Not to shatter your image of terrorists but they are NOT all men. Women and children have also been used as suicide bombers.

But the incidences of mass violence in the United States have almost always involved a man (or men) somewhere between 13 and 60.
Nobody said all, but checking men of a certain age demographic more than women, children, elderly would be more likely to catch the one trying to do harm.

Checking all people would make things safer, at least inside the park. I still think the resorts, Disney Springs, and park entrances (especially at park open) are not any more safe than they were before.

 

[Magpie]

Headed back home on our annual spring break, this is first of series of reports. I know that a lot has been written about random selection. Here goes our take: We think that Disney's policy is "Randomly" check suspicious people or those that might be concealing something. While you are at it, also "randomly" check everyone, particularly elderly, kids, women - those that look least likely to cause any problems.

I say this because on this recent trip, I was travelling with family - wife and kids. I am the only darker skinned person - family is your typical Midwest white suburban. I think that every time we went through a turnstyle, I was selected for the inspection. Everytime the security people just look you up and down and then make that determination. I think the one time that I escaped selection was when there was a more "suspicious" looking person that got flagged.

It does wear on you to get flagged repeatedly. Not saying that I agree or disagree with the policy, just reporting what we think - again, this is opinion.

Not sure what the right thing - if you are going to make it random, truly make it random and select every "nth" person. Or just check everyone.

We were just at Universal as well - now we did not go through the main gate (entered from the Hard Rock entrance - and they checked everyone. You did not have to have everyone place your stuff onto the baskets - just needed to carry phone and wallet in your hand as you go through the detector. Can't imagine that this would slow entrance to the parks (as you likely will have to wait to get your tickets scanned).

Again, not a big deal, but just a thought -Our opinion: check everyone or make it random. Or leave it the same - but own up and remove the "random" tag. Opinion - no flames please...

For what it's worth, we're here now (since last Friday) and my husband has got chosen about every second time, or more. He's French/Irish, pasty white as they come, and 50. But he wears button down short sleeves untucked over his khaki shorts, so I think they worry he might be a local trying to conceal carry.

We don't mind in the slightest, in fact one time, my husband assuming it was routine, actually walked up without being called over, which made the guards crack up. They joked about volunteers.

They've all been great guys, very nice.

 

[GeneralTso]

It is a fact there is a lot of racial profiling in this country. That can NOT be ignored. Is it happening at the pearly gates of Disney---sure.
I watched many people of color get selected, but so did many Caucasian people. They are not stupid enough to not select any white folks. Come on.

To imagine for a second that the profiling that happens every day, all day across this country isn't happening at Disney is magical thinking (pun intended)

 

[DiannaVM]

As....uncomfortable as this profiling may make some of us feel, a fact of life is that some level of judgement will be passed when people look (or dress) a certain way and even more so when it comes to security issues. As a PP said, when you look at statistics, there are certain details about people that make alarms go off in people's heads based on historical circumstances. This profiling isn't right on a personal basis (especially when those people are innocent) but its done for the greater good "just in case". Yes, sometimes dangerous people don't fit the cookie-cutter description of a "bad" person, but security takes the stance of "better safe than sorry" when they do their "random" selections. If we want to get into how this is discriminatory, then it wouldn't be random selection and everyone would need to undergo the strict checks.

My family is half Mexican, and so my dad has darker skin than the rest of us, and of course has a fairly common Mexican name. He has yet to travel into the US, without being flagged by the airline and checked out. Its to the point where he knows its going to happen so he takes it in stride because he knows he doesn't have any devious intentions.

I say all this to say this: I don't have a problem with "random selection" or profiling anywhere, if the right measures are being taken to keep me and my loved ones safe. Nothing in life is 100%, including safety inside the parks so I am totally aware that some people will fall through the cracks and something could STILL happen. But I rather know that they did their best to ensure everyone's safety, than to know that something happened because they didn't stop someone because they didn't want to profile somebody and therefore overlooked them.

 

[SnipsNSnails]

That's not good.

I would agree if I thought that the security was actually trying to be effective. The only way I can see it being truly effective, would be to set up screening points at each resort and DS so that bag checks are done before boarding a bus, monorail, or boat where every person goes through the metal detector. They would need to set up checkpoints before boarding the ferry or monorails at MK and for those coming in from the parking lots at the other parks, again with everyone going through the metal detectors. Only then would I believe that they are serious about security checks. Otherwise, what difference is it if someone can actively avoid screening, because many people enter without being screened. Obviously, anyone with intent would actively try to avoid being chosen. Since it's also been proven that you can deny being screened and not be ejected from the premises, then it follows that this type of security will do absolutely nothing to stop anyone with actual intent. Either they will decide to deploy their plans at the crowded checkpoint or try again later and possibly get through without being screened.

We all know that WDW isn't going to take it seriously unless something happens. It would take too much time and too many resources to set up security in a way that would make a difference. Guests wouldn't want to put up with it. Oh the complaining if they actually tried to have real security.

One other item to note about the random screenings - our family figured out how to avoid them altogether on this last trip. All you have to do is pull over to the side immediately after getting your bag checked (within a few feet, and not having separated yourself from the table area). Pretend to be securing your bags while not obviously looking up. During this time, security will be looking for someone exiting the bag check area for screening. Once they select one and begin walking toward the tents - time to move out. Worked for us flawlessly, and we all wear cargo shorts and are often "randomly" selected.

This was my experience as well, wait for them to choose someone else and then go.

 

[JimmyV]

Actually, you didn't disagree with me at all. We are saying exactly the same thing. The only thing that I question, (and I am not questioning you...I am questioning the internet's assumed premise), is:

Also, Disney is the one claiming that it is random - and it well might be, but we will have to disagree on the level of selection that they use to pick out people.

I don't know that Disney is claiming that it is random. What I see is internet chatter hearsay where people say that Disney says that it is random. Has anyone ever seen an internal Disney memo that instructs that the searches must be random?

 

[ps17]

Actually, you didn't disagree with me at all. We are saying exactly the same thing. The only thing that I question, (and I am not questioning you...I am questioning the internet's assumed premise), is:



I don't know that Disney is claiming that it is random. What I see is internet chatter hearsay where people say that Disney says that it is random. Has anyone ever seen an internal Disney memo that instructs that the searches must be random?

When I got "randomly" instances of entry I was with my family. the checker looked at our group (wife and kids), directly came over and said to me "you have randomly been selected....." . One of the times, he just said "randomly"....

No one has seen an internal memo

 

[JimmyV]

When I got "randomly" instances of entry I was with my family. the checker looked at our group (wife and kids), directly came over and said to me "you have randomly been selected....." . One of the times, he just said "randomly"....

No one has seen an internal memo

Thanks for the report. I guess they are trained to use that word to quell (most of the) anticipated blowback. I imagine that most people will take it at face value, until they are selected four times out of five, after which they will begin to start questioning the premise.

 

[JimmyV]

Obviously, this is anecdotal as I was only there for probably 20 minutes or so, but none the less, I think it would be fair to say there was a little discrete profiling going on interspersed with many efforts to guise it, but some might argue it's a matter of perspective.

This gets to the core of what I was suggesting earlier. In the aggregate, the selections seem random. At the granular level, they are less so. Assume that a security guard has been told to randomly select one out of approximately 10 guests for enhanced screening. Assume that they have been told that any type of profiling based on stereotyping is a fireable offense. And assume that there are closed circuit cameras trained on the entrance and everything that this guard does is being monitored and periodically reviewed by his/her supervisor. With that...the first person that the guard randomly selects is a white male between 20-30. The second person the guard selects is a white male around 40. When it comes time to select the third person, knowing that the first two selected were white, male, and under 50, the guard, not wanting to be accused of profiling, selects an elderly woman. And the one after that is a child of color. And then back to a middle aged white male. And so on. At the end of the shift, there will have been an equal number (or statistically representative number) of each demographic selected so as to give the appearance of randomness. But when the child of color was selected, the guard had in his/her mind that the next person selected was going to be a child, and going to be non-white so as to balance out the other selections that had been made. So when that kid got to the entrance he was not "randomly" selected at all. I suppose it could be said that he was randomly selected from all of the other children of color who passed through the entrance at about the same time that he did. But because the guard was intent on rounding out the selections, the element of true randomness gets diluted. I think that is what you saw with the elderly guests. Every so often, one has to be picked.

 

[ORD2KOA]

I came to see what everyone's saying about the metal detectors at WDW. I am a senior woman living in Orlando and I have been stopped on every one of my last five visits to Epcot and Hollywood Studios. If they think that grandmothers are a threat, they're out of their minds.

Also, I noted that all of the security personnel at the metal detectors are male, and that mostly women were being chosen for scanning. They're not picking the men wearing cargo pants with bulging pockets. I hate to think that this is a male power trip thing, but I'm going again this afternoon and will be taking a look at who is being scanned.

I've always thought that the bag checks at Disney were just for show and didn't make anyone a bit safer and I think this metal detector screening is exactly the same. If they were serious about screening, it should be done the way Universal is handling it: everybody goes through a detector.

 

[Kaler131]

I'm a white, middle aged woman (and I'm also a Cast Member) and I get selected a LOT! Every few times I enter MK and EVERY time I enter HS.

 

[STEAMBOAT209]

just back from a 8 day trip, my son-in-law was picked for scanning every time we entered a park. He was the only one in our party of 6, each park entrance, he was scanned. I carried his backpack once to see if that was the issue, no; he still got picked for scanning, i only had to open the backpack for inspection at the regular inspection tables. Not sure what the actual criteria is they are going by.

 

[AngiTN]

I came to see what everyone's saying about the metal detectors at WDW. I am a senior woman living in Orlando and I have been stopped on every one of my last five visits to Epcot and Hollywood Studios. If they think that grandmothers are a threat, they're out of their minds.

Also, I noted that all of the security personnel at the metal detectors are male, and that mostly women were being chosen for scanning. They're not picking the men wearing cargo pants with bulging pockets. I hate to think that this is a male power trip thing, but I'm going again this afternoon and will be taking a look at who is being scanned.

I've always thought that the bag checks at Disney were just for show and didn't make anyone a bit safer and I think this metal detector screening is exactly the same. If they were serious about screening, it should be done the way Universal is handling it: everybody goes through a detector.

There are plenty of women working security at the gates. I had them on 2 of the times I got selected for screening last week.
And the exact words used were "you've been selected for Random screening"
And I believe it's just that.
They walk up, grab someone, screen them, pass them on, walk up, grab the next person they see, screen them, repeat.
I do not believe they search the crowd for a specific type of person, grab them, screen them, search the crowd for a specific type, screen and repeat.
It's just who happens to be the next one through when it's that guards turn to pull someone.
Still, I don't think any of it would stop someone intent on harm. Actually, just the opposite. It creates a nice bottle neck of people to harm
I did notice the bag screening is taking longer and longer on each of my trips
I've gone out and bought sparkle skirts to wear exclusively in the parks so I can have pockets for phone, id, etc. Encouraged the rest of my party to do the same.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Hi all. OP here with some clarifications.

1) Racially profiling was probably not the right term. We think it is more that they may have as a policy been instructed identifying persons that are risk factors and checking that. It is our opinion that in profiling, those individuals selected for that reason tend to be more "aggressive looking", tougher, whatever - that is fine, but we think that race, descent, middle eastern looking does play a part.

2) Clarify that this is an opinion - and will have to respectfully agree to disagree. Also stated that as general procedure, they will go ahead and pick true random people including those that appear least likely or capable of causing issues. This does not preclude them from identifying "riskier" people for screening

3) I understand that most responders disagree and think that there is no profile or security screening going on, but consider this: You are non-Caucasian and in a group of "standard" family. The screener looks at the entire group and cuts in and pulls you out for screening - if this happened to you repeatedly, you might feel otherwise.

4) Those checkpoints for no-bag entrance are not heavily staffed since they are choke points. There appear to be just one or two "selectors" - they don't screen every person. The times that I was not selected was because the selector was in the process of identifying and selecting someone else. So in those cases, I was trumped or foddered from others ahead that they may have already selected for any reason.

5) I have no problem with being screened or selected because I understand that security is paramount. Still of OPINION that they should just screen everyone or make it truly random (next time, pick my wife or one of our kids).....

OP: I just want to say, I hear you and am sure they are picking on certain factors. Which ones, we don't and won't know. Also, I understand where you are coming from that just because it happens often to white people and they don't feel othered, it doesn't make you feel less othered. My brown husband is picked often for the screenings, but we won't know if it's because he's clearly military or that he's brown.

I'm actually inclined that they read some crazy post on here about military bringing guns in all the time so they can be "good guys with guns" and now they pick the military guys to make sure they aren't concealed carrying. Who knows though?

 

[Yahweh]

Is this just me or isn't possible that if you want to inflict the most damage on the most amount of people, you don't do it inside the park, but outside while people are all waiting to get into the park. I know it's different with airplanes because you can use an airplane as a tool for greater destruction, but I personally don't feel safer with these extra security measures while I'm waiting to get into the park

 

[mom2rtk]

Is this just me or isn't possible that if you want to inflict the most damage on the most amount of people, you don't do it inside the park, but outside while people are all waiting to get into the park. I know it's different with airplanes because you can use an airplane as a tool for greater destruction, but I personally don't feel safer with these extra security measures while I'm waiting to get into the park

I've been saying this from the get go. I think these steps just create an even more dangerous situation. An incident right outside the gates of the Magic Kingdom would be just as devastating as one right inside the gates.

 

[gwynne]

There were a several days where I was screened every time I walked into a park. It was like it was open season on women over the age of 50. It got to be sort of comical. Two other ladies who looked to be the same age looked at me and one said, "Is this happening to you every time, too in every park?" as we waiting to walk through the screener. "Yes indeed!" We agreed we thought it was bizarre. No younger folks in line with us, just people who looked like they could be grandparents. Sheesh.

 

[woopig]

First things first, Disney does do a good job keeping us safe. However, I think Disney is profiling by not profiling. I was chosen at every park and I am a middle aged white male. I spoke with several cast members about it and received several different answers. Some stuck by the story that it was random. Others said it was the black backpack I was carrying. Considering the rules of probability I shouldn't have been chosen at every park. My daughter's boyfriend is Marshallese and he was chosen as well. My feeling is they saw us coming into the park together and didn't want to single him out. Simply put, they should screen everyone if safety is the issue

 

[kandb]

It is a fact there is a lot of racial profiling in this country. That can NOT be ignored. Is it happening at the pearly gates of Disney---sure.
I watched many people of color get selected, but so did many Caucasian people. They are not stupid enough to not select any white folks. Come on.

To imagine for a second that the profiling that happens every day, all day across this country isn't happening at Disney is magical thinking (pun intended)

This is YOUR opinion and IMO is totally off base. I often wonder where people get these idea. I guess from the media. If you look at the majority of the population in WDW it is white. Wonder why they are doing security at all then, heh?