JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

I know, I was agreeing with you. I used to read WebSleuths. Until I started reading about a case that was local for me. That's when I realized that many of the people there come up with crazy theories and run with it.

I think most people would not believe how far off the mark the news stories they read or hear frequently are about what's going on in criminal cases in the courtroom. I regularly see news coverage of cases I am either familiar with or even at times have actually been in the courtroom at the same time as the reporters and later saw their reporting and realized they misunderstood what was taking place while they were observing. For the most part these are smart and capable people who work hard to do a good job. Most of the time they simply don't have hours or days to stay and observe everything because they have other responsibilities or they have to meet a deadline or be on the air while things are still going on in court.

I totally see how someone taking their cues from new reports from good reporters could get things in their head about a case that the evidence doesn't really bear out. I'm frequently surprised about cases that are bound over here that I'm aware of from news reports in the aftermath of the crime and from preliminary hearings they report on that wind up being significantly different from what the news reports lead me to think initially.
 
The special I watched stated that the noose that strangled her was used to torture her. It was tightened then loosened. Her nail marks were around it proving she was still conscious when she was strangled. Some say she was knocked unconscious from the hit in her head and then strangled, but she must've been hit over the head after she was dead. I can’t see her parents doing that or doing that much staging to clear Burke. JBR was tortured. I can’t see her parents torturing her.

Apparently that's not the police theory though. There was an AMA on reddit with the former Boulder Police Chief (at least I think it was the police chief). He ended up deleting his posts but you can still find most of it. He made it very clear that the police believe she was hit and knocked unconscious and the strangling was done after as staging.
I think that's a huge problem with the investigation. The police are so sure of their theory of the murder and it being a family member that they dismiss anything that doesn't fit.
Like you said, strangling her while she was conscious and fighting back is torture. It's hard to keep the theory that the parents or 9 year old brother could do something so brutual, instead they just dismiss it and insist she was hit first. Jonbenet being hit too hard on the head and someone panicking and staging everything to cover it up is much easier to sell than one of them deciding to brutually murder her while she was conscious and trying to get away.
 
Regarding the pineapple:

Did they find a fruit platter in the refrigerator? Is it normal for the family to keep cut up fruit in their refrigerator?

Was a can found from the pineapple? If so, where? Fingerprints?

Was it fresh pineapple? If so, that is definitely not something a child could cut up.

From Perfect Murder, Perfect Town

PMPT Page 433

"The police had to piece together the findings of the various pathologists, who had explained to them that when food is swallowed, it goes first to the stomach, then passes to the duodenum, and from there to the lower small intestine. Eventually, the digested food passes into the large bowel, from which it exits. Food found in the stomach and intestines can sometimes be used to estimate the time of ingestion and to narrow the time of death.

In the Ramseys' dining room, just steps away from the kitchen, the police had found a bowl with fresh pineapple in it. Meyer noted in his report that the pineapple in JonBenét's small intestine was in near-perfect condition -- it had sharp edges and looked as if it had been recently eaten and poorly chewed.

Based on the condition of the pineapple in her intestine, the experts estimated that JonBenét had eaten it an hour and a half or two hours before she died, most likely after the family returned home that night. If she had eaten the pineapple after 10:30 P.M., that made the approximate time of death not earlier than midnight."
 
Apparently that's not the police theory though. There was an AMA on reddit with the former Boulder Police Chief (at least I think it was the police chief). He ended up deleting his posts but you can still find most of it. He made it very clear that the police believe she was hit and knocked unconscious and the strangling was done after as staging.
I think that's a huge problem with the investigation. The police are so sure of their theory of the murder and it being a family member that they dismiss anything that doesn't fit.
Like you said, strangling her while she was conscious and fighting back is torture. It's hard to keep the theory that the parents or 9 year old brother could do something so brutual, instead they just dismiss it and insist she was hit first. Jonbenet being hit too hard on the head and someone panicking and staging everything to cover it up is much easier to sell than one of them deciding to brutually murder her while she was conscious and trying to get away.

But wouldn't the autopsy list what the medical examiner determined to be her cause of death? I would expect much could be learned from the medical examiner's report as to whether the head wound was a fatal one or whether the strangulation was in fact the cause of death.
 

The special I watched stated that the noose that strangled her was used to torture her. It was tightened then loosened. Her nail marks were around it proving she was still conscious when she was strangled. Some say she was knocked unconscious from the hit in her head and then strangled, but she must've been hit over the head after she was dead. I can’t see her parents doing that or doing that much staging to clear Burke. JBR was tortured. I can’t see her parents torturing her.
I have not read about this case in years but what you say gets me. I just don't understand how it can be anyone but a family member.

She was tortured, killed in her own home, fed pineapple by 'said kidnapper/killer' while her parents slept? Really?!! How long does this go on and the parents/no one in the house moves, makes a sound. Giving this killer all the time in the world? Including possibly writing a ransom note. If the killer wrote the note during a prior visit or took the pad out of the house and returned it at some point, that just doesn't sound plausible to me.
 
~5:30 AM John Ramsey Awoke. "Defendants assert they woke around 5:30 a.m. and proceeded to get ready for their trip. While Mr. Ramsey took a shower, Mrs. Ramsey put back on the same outfit she had on the night before and reapplied her makeup. (SMF P 15.)" (Carnes 2003: 7) John Ramsey reportedly awoke before Patsy, at about 5:30, and dressed after showering (Schiller 1999a:77).


~5:33 AM Patsy Ramsey Awoke. Patsy Ramsey awoke "a few minutes later;" dressed, put on make-up and went to 2nd floor to rinse out JBR jumpsuit and then went downstairs to kitchen (Schiller 1999a:77). Ramsey & Ramsey (2001:10) states she put clothes for trip into plastic bag (there is no allusion to rinsing the jumpsuit).


~5:45 Ransom Note Discovered. "Mrs. Ramsey then went down the backstairs towards the second floor, then the spiral stairs towards the ground floor, where, on a step near the bottom of the stairs, she discovered a handwritten note on three sheets of paper that indicated JonBenét had been kidnapped (the "Ransom Note"). (SMF P 16)." (Carnes 2003:7). Patsy Ramsey "told Det. Arndt that she found a note at the bottom of the staircase" at "approximately" 5:45 AM (Byfield 1997:1)


~5:45 AM JBR Found Missing. "As she descended the back stairwell, she discovered the Ransom Note and read only those few lines stating that JonBenét was kidnapped, but "safe and unharmed," and demanding $118,000 for her return. (SMF P 17; PSMF P 17.) Mrs. Ramsey immediately screamed and proceeded to check JonBenét's room, which was empty. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18)." (Carnes 2003:11-12). Patsy Ramsey discovered JBR missing at "approximately 5:45 AM" (Byfield 1997:1).


Before 5:52 AM Parents Checked on Burke. "After hearing Mrs. Ramsey's scream, Mr. Ramsey ran downstairs and met Mrs. Ramsey in the stairwell. Together, they checked on their son who appeared to be asleep in his room. (SMF P 18; PSMF P 18.)" (Carnes 2003:12).


Before 5:52 AM John Ramsey Read RN. "Mr. Ramsey then went downstairs to read the Ransom Note, while Mrs. Ramsey called the police, informing them that her child had been kidnapped. (SMF P 19; PSMF P 19)" (Carnes 2003:12).


5:52 AM Patsy Ramsey Made 911 Call. John told Patsy to call police; 911 call logged at 5:52 AM (Schiller 1999a:78). The Daily Camera places this call at 5:45 AM, as does Bardach (1997).


After 5:52 AM Ramseys Phone Family Friends. Fleet & Priscilla White and John & Barbara Fernie (friends of family) had been phoned "shortly after the note was found" (Byfield 1997:1). Schiller (1999a:78) states that Patsy had called Whites & Fernies "immediately after" the 911 call; Ramsey & Ramsey (2001: 12-13) states she called Fernies first and then Whites. Schiller places the call to the Whites at "at about 6:00 AM" with house guest Clif Gaston picking up the phone (1999a:44); since the call was placed before Officer French arrived, it must have been before 5:59 AM since that is the time Schiller has French arriving at the house.


5:59 AM Officer French Arrived. BPD officers Karl Veitch and Rick French are reported to have "responded to" 911 call at 5:52 AM, but it is not clear whether this denotes actual time of arrival at the house (Byfield 1997:1. "Office Rick French of the Boulder Police arrived at the defendants' home in a marked car a few minutes before six a.m., followed soon after by Detective Linda Arndt. (SMF P 21; PSMF P 21.)" (Carnes 2003:14). BPD Officer Rick French was the first law officer to arrive at Ramsey house at 5:59 AM (Schiller 1999a:77), i.e., 7 minutes after the 911 call (Schiller 1999a:78). Glick et al. (1998) concurs French arrived "just before 6 a.m." The Daily Camera has French and Veitch arriving at the Ramseys at 5:45 AM.


After 5:59 AM Officer French Read RN. In a story based on reading police reports, Newsweek reporters claim "French read the ransom note and later conducted a quick search of the house" although no timeframe is given for this (Glick et al. 1998). In contrast, Schiller claims French did the house search and then read the ransom note (Schiller 1999a:7; source and summary provided by Internet poster Athena). French himself stated in a Vanity Fair interview that after being greeted by Patsy on arrival, "John Ramsey directed me through the house and pointed out a three-page handwritten note which was laid on the wooden floor just west of the kitchen area" (Bardach 1997).


After 5:59 AM Officer Veitch Arrived. BPD officer Karl Veitch arrived before Fernies (Ramsey & Ramsey 1999a: 14). "Contrary to normal protocol, the police did not seal off the defendants' home, with the sole exception being the interior of JonBenét's bedroom. In other words, any person in the Ramsey house could, and often did, move freely throughout the home. (SMF P 21; PSMF P 22.)" (Carnes 2003:13).


After 5:59 AM John Fernie Arrived. John Fernie arrived at Ramsey house; his wife Barbara Fernie came "later" (Schiller 1999a: 44); Fernie was the first friend to arrive and he tried the patio door first (Schiller 1999a:78). This is consistent with the search warrant affidavit that Fernies were phoned "shortly after the note was found" and "immediately" come over. (Byfield 1997:1)


[paste:font size="6"]Athena).
Thomas provides a very similar account: "In the basement he also came to the white door at the far end of the that was closed and secured at the top by the wooden block on a screw. French was looking for exit points from the house and the door obviously was not one. No one could have gone through that door, closed it behind them, and locked it on the opposite side by turning the wooden latch, so he did not open it." (Thomas 2000:22-23).


This raises the question of how to resolve a 2-hour discrepancy between what might be viewed as "insider" accounts. Glick et al., do not provide an exact time, but it is clear that it nearly matches Schiller's rather than Thomas's as they flatly assert: "He noticed the latch was on the wrong side for a door leading out of the house. So he kept moving. Soon other officers arrived, including detectives and a forensics team that began dusting the house for fingerprints and searching for other clues" (Glick et al., 1998), so the search clearly was before the other detectives arrived, a flat contradiction of Thomas. Given that Glick et al. are professional reporters relying on police reports and produce a story consistent with Schiller, who conducted numerous interviews, their account probably should be accorded more credence than Thomas's even though he too in theory had access to the same police reports.


~6:03 AM Whites Arrived. Fleet & Priscilla White arrived at Ramsey house "minutes after" 6:00 AM (Schiller 1999a: 44). This is consistent with the search warrant affidavit that Whites had been phoned "shortly after the note was found" and "immediately" come over (Byfield 1997:1). Whites reportedly came "promptly" after being called (Carnes, 2003:12).


~6:06 AM Fleet White Searched Basement. Fleet White went downstairs to basement to look for JBR (Schiller 1999a: 44). This time is supported by Carnes (2003:14): "The Whites arrived at defendant's home at approximately 6:00 a.m., and Mr. White, alone, searched the basement within fifteen minutes of arrival. (SMF P 23; PSMF P 23.) Mr. White testified that when he began his search, the lights were already on in the basement and the door in the hallway leading to the basement "wine cellar" room was opened. (SMF P 25; PSMF P 25; White Dep. at 147, 151-52.)" (Carnes 2003:14).


After 6:06 AM Fleet White Searched Train Room. "He further testified that a window in the basement playroom was broken. (SMF P 26; PSMF P 26; White Dep. at 28, 152 & 154.) Under the broken window, Mr. White states there was a suitcase, along with a broken shard of glass. (SMF P 27; PSMF P 27; White Dep. at 28-29, 156-59, & 15 265.) He does not, however, remember whether the window was opened or closed. n11 (SMF P 28; PSMF P 28; White Dep. at 153.)" (Carnes 2003:14).


After 6:06 AM Fleet White Searched Wine Cellar Room. "Mr. White also opened the door to the wine cellar room, but he could not see anything inside because it was dark and he could not find the light switch. (SMF P 29; PSMF P 29; White Dep. at 159-61.)" (Carnes 2003:14).


Before 6:45 AM John Ramsey Calls Pilot. John Ramsey leaves message for his pilot Michael Archuleta who returns the call a few minutes later; Patsy answers the phone (Schiller 1999a:78).


6:45 AM Weiss, Barcklow and Reichenbach Arrive. BPD officers Barry Weiss, Sue Barcklow, and Sgt. Paul Reichenbach arrive at Ramsey house (Schiller 1999a:79); the search warrant affidavit confirms that Weiss was at the house when Arndt arrived at 8:00 AM (Byfield 1997:1).


6:45 AM Priscilla White called niece at White house (Schiller 1999a:44).


~7:00 AM Burke Ramsey is awakened and dressed (Schiller 1999a:45).


After 7:00 AM Rev. Hoverstock Arrived. Rev. Hoverstock from St. John's Episcopalian Church arrives at Ramsey house just before Burke left to go to White's house (Schiller 1999a:45); the search warrant affidavit states the pastor arrived "shortly after the note was found" (Byfield 1997:1).


After 7:00 AM Burke Ramsey Taken to Whites. Burke Ramsey is taken by Fleet White and John Fernie to pick up the Fernie children and then taken to the White's home (Schiller 1999a:45).


Between 7:00-8:00 AM John Ramsey Searched Basement. "at around ten a.m., Mr. Ramsey also searched the basement area alone. He testified he found the broken window partially open. (SMF P 30; PSMF P 30; J. Ramsey Dep. at 30.) Under the broken window, Mr. Ramsey also saw the same suitcase seen earlier by Mr. White. Mr. Ramsey testified that the suitcase belonged to his family, but was normally stored in a different place. (SMF P 31; 16 PSMF P 31; J. Ramsey Dep. at 17.) *1331 Mr. Ramsey then returned upstairs. Plaintiff Chris Wolf theorizes that Mr. Ramsey actually found JonBenét's body at this time. (PSDMF P 57.)" (Carnes 2003:14]. Internet poster Bluecrab claims he did more than just check the window. It appears that Carnes may have this time wrong. In his 1998 testimony, John Ramsey provides several different times for when he searched the basement on his own. He first states "It would have been that time period: seven to nine." (p. 155, lines 19-20) and later reiterates "it was probably some time between seven and nine" (p. 157, lines 12-13). When asked whether it was before or after Whites and Fernies arrived, John stated: "I think it was after, because they came fairly early" (p. 174, lines 1-2). He then reiterated: "The best I can do is, it was, I believe, after the police came. Because they had gone through the house before I figured out what I'm going to do. It was before ten o'clock. They had already done some preparation before that. So it would have been before. Probably before nine. So then somewhere between seven and nine." (p. 174, lines 5-11). But when reminded that the RN said a phone call would come between 8 and 10 AM, NOT 10-12 AM, as John had supposed, John made clear that he had visited the basement prior to that time since "When we were ready for the phone call and I was prepped about what I was going to say and I was getting the family ready. And so between that period of time we were just waiting for the phone call and I was near the phone. And I was either in the study or on the first floor. I just waiting for it." (p. 174, lines 22-25; p. 175, lines 1-3). In response to a query from Mike Kane, John Ramsey confirmed that his trip to the basement "would have been before that time period." (p. 175, lines 6-7). However, Internet poster Amber believes John must have visited the basement before either Fleet White or Officer French since he found a chair in front of the train room door and there's no good reason to believe White or French would have re-blocked the door with the chair after they entered the train room (which both did according to their own accounts). If so, John's trip would have been before 6:00 AM.


7:30 AM Ransom Amount Assembled. John Ramsey collected the $118,000 demanded in the ransom note (AngelFire timeline).


Prior to 8:00 AM Reichenbach Briefs Arndt and Patterson. Sgt. Reichenbach meets with BPD Detectives Linda Arndt and Fred Patterson at the Basemar Shopping Center to brief them on the case (Schiller 1999a:79).


[paste:font size="6"]Byfield 1997:1); she monitored incoming phone calls to the Ramsey residence from approximately 0800-1300 hours (Byfield 1997:2). Patterson's arrival time is not mentioned in the search warrant affidavit, but Schiller (1999a:10) has him arriving with Arndt at 8:10 AM. "Detective Arndt and Patterson arrived at the Ramsey house at 8:10 a.m., and Officer Rick French gave them an updated briefing." (Thomas 2000:22).


Time Unstated Advocates Brought Food. "Early that morning, police had called in a team of victims' advocates, trained in helping families through traumatic situations, who arrived with bagels and coffee." (Glick et al. 1998).


Time Unstated Police Tapped Phones. BPD followed standard procedure by putting taps inside the house and at John Ramsey's office (Glick et al. 1998).


Time Unstated Arndt Instructed John Ramsey. "Linda Arndt told John Ramsey what to say if the ransomer called: demand to talk to JonBenét. John Ramsey took notes. "Must talk to JB," he scribbled." (Glick et al., 1998).


Time Unstated Advocates Cleaned Kitchen. "After using the kitchen, the advocates began tidying it up, a law-enforcement official told NEWSWEEK. One friend helped clean the kitchen, wiping down the counters with a spray cleaner--and possibly wiping away important evidence." (Glick et al. 1998).


8:36 AM JAR and MR Board Plane. John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey borded a Delta flight to Minneapolis (AngelFire timeline).


~9:30 AM Sergeant Whitson Arrived. BPD Sergeant Bob Whitson arrived at house, entering through rear exterior kitchen door (Byfield 1997:4).


[paste:font size="6"]Byfield 1997:2). "Police reports also show that officers did little to protect the integrity of the crime scene. Believing the crime was a kidnapping, the cops cordoned off JonBenét's bedroom with yellow and black crime-scene tape to preserve whatever evidence her abductor may have left behind. But strangely, they didn't seal the rest of the house--also potentially part of the crime scene" (Glick et al. 1998).


Time Unstated "In the early afternoon, after the forensics team and other officers had packed up and left, Detective Arndt stayed behind to wait with the Ramseys." (Glick et al. 1998).


Before 1:00 PM Arndt Tells John Ramsey to Search House. "The mood in the house was quiet and tense. John Ramsey milled anxiously around the living room; Patsy sat virtually motionless in a chair. Arndt noted in her police report that she wanted to give John Ramsey something to do "to keep his mind occupied." She pulled Ramsey and friend Fleet White aside and told them to conduct a "top to bottom" search of the house to see if anything seemed amiss." (Glick et al. 1998).



[paste:font size="6"]Byfield 1997:2). Other accounts make no mention of Fernie. "Later that afternoon, Mr. Ramsey and Mr. White together returned to the basement at the suggestion of the Boulder Police. (SMF P 32; PSMF P 32; White Dep. at 212-217; J. Ramsey Dep. at 17-20.) During this joint search of the basement, the men first examined the playroom and observed the broken window. (SMF P 33; PSMF P 33.) The men next searched a shower stall located in the basement. (SMF P 34; PSMF P 34.) Mr. Ramsey then noticed a heavy fireplace grate propped in front of a closet and Mr. White moved the grate so the closet could be searched. (SMF P 35; PSMF P 35.) Upon finding nothing unusual in the closet, the men proceeded to the wine cellar room. Mr. Ramsey entered the room first, turned on the light and, upon discovery of JonBenét's dead body, he exclaimed "Oh my God, my baby." (SMF P 36, 37; PSMF P 36, 37; White Dep. at 162-63, 193-93.)Ramsey & Ramsey (2001:21) reports only that John took Fleet White to the basement.


1:05 PM JBR Body Found. "Mr. Ramsey entered the room first, turned on the light and, upon discovery of JonBenét's dead body, he exclaimed "Oh my God, my baby." (SMF P 36, 37; PSMF P 36, 37; White Dep. at 162-63, 193-93.)" (Carnes 2003:14). The time is listed as 1:05 in the Ramsey's account (Ramsey & Ramsey 2001:22). Newsweek reports John Ramsey as later stating ""All I could do was scream, to try to attract attention." he says." (Glick et al. 1998).



After 1:05 PM Duct Tape Removed. "JonBenét had black duct tape covering her mouth, a cord around her neck that was attached to a wooden garrote, and her hands were bound over her head in front of her; she was covered by a light-colored blanket. (SMF P 38; PSMF P 38.) ....Mr. Ramsey ripped the duct tape off JonBenét's mouth and attempted to untie her hands. (SMF P 39; PSMF P 39.)" (Carnes 2003:16-17).


~1:05 PM Fleet White Calls for Ambulance. "Within a few minutes" of going into basement, Fleet White came running upstairs, grabbed the telephone in the back office located on the first floor, and yelled for someone to call an ambulance (Byfield 1997:2). "Fleet White bounded up the stairs yelling for someone to "call 911."" (Glick et al. 1998).


1:05 PM Byfield Notified. BPD officer Jim Byfield is notified that JBR body had been found (Byfield 1997:1)
After 1:05 PM JBR Carried Upstairs "He then carried her body upstairs. (SMF P 39; PSMF P 39.)" (Carnes 2003:17). "Ramsey ripped the duct tape off JonBenét's mouth and carried her up the stairs, setting her down on the floor. Though it's unclear why, Arndt then picked up the body again and moved it to the living room near the Christmas tree where Ramsey knelt beside her, repeating "My little angel," over and over. Friends carried Patsy, too stunned to walk, over to the body. Police reports describe her throwing herself over JonBenét." (Glick et al. 1998).


After 1:05 PM Arndt Requested Backup. "Arndt quickly called for backup, declaring a "Code Black"--police lingo for murder--over the radio. The forensic team return to the house." (Glick et al. 1998).


After 1:05 PM Officers Weiss and Everett Arrive. Between 1:05 pm and 1:30 pm BPD officer Barry Weiss and Det. Michael Everett arrive at Ramseys (Schiller 1999a:21).


After 1:05 PM Everett Searched Basement. "After the discovery of the girl's body" Everett "walked through the basement area of the house to attempt to determine if any person were present in the basement" (Byfield 1997:2). This search includes the wine cellar (Schiller 1999a:21).


1:30 PM Walker and Mason Searched Basement. BPD officers Ron Walker and Larry Mason saw JonBenét's body in the living room and then searched the basement and the wine cellar; Mason decides to secure the house (Schiller 1999a:21).


1:30 PM Priscilla White Calls Niece. Priscilla White calls her niece at the White home, to report the murder (Schiller 1999a:46).


~1:30 PM John Calls Pilot. "Twenty minutes later after Arndt moves body, John is overheard placing a phone call to his pilot to ready the plane to head for Atlanta. Police instruct them not to leave town, so they stay at a friend's home in Boulder" (Crime Library timeline).


1:45 PM Ramseys Leave for Fernie's. The Ramseys left their home to stay with the Fernie's. Attorney friend Mike Bynum advised them to get lawyers (AngelFire timeline).


1:50 PM House Secured "It was only upon the discovery of JonBenét's body that the Boulder police began to secure properly the home as the crime scene. (SMF P 53; PSMF P 53.)" (Carnes 2003:17). Schiller lists the time this happened as 1:50 PM(1999a:23).

Patsy wakes up at 5:33, put on her makeup, gets dressed, and goes to rinse out a jumpsuit in 12 minutes. That seems like an awfully short amount of time for a woman who always wanted to look picture perfect.
I've read several books about JonBenet's murder over the years and I keep thinking Burke accidentally murdered JonBenet and his parents covered it up. John had already lost 1 daughter, now another daughter was dead, and he and Patsy didn't want to lose their son.
 
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But wouldn't the autopsy list what the medical examiner determined to be her cause of death? I would expect much could be learned from the medical examiner's report as to whether the head wound was a fatal one or whether the strangulation was in fact the cause of death.

I don't think they could determine which happened first. Apparently the head wound was fatal but not immediately.
 
I have not read about this case in years but what you say gets me. I just don't understand how it can be anyone but a family member.

She was tortured, killed in her own home, fed pineapple by 'said kidnapper/killer' while her parents slept? Really?!! How long does this go on and the parents/no one in the house moves, makes a sound. Giving this killer all the time in the world? Including possibly writing a ransom note. If the killer wrote the note during a prior visit or took the pad out of the house and returned it at some point, that just doesn't sound plausible to me.

Again, that house is HUGE and most of the floors are a labyrinth of rooms. The Master Bedroom was on the third floor and isolated. The kids' bedrooms (including bedrooms for the adult children and one play area) were one floor below that. The first floor had something like 30 windows and 5 or 6 entrance/patio doors and several rooms. Think of something "Open Concept" on HGTV and then think of the opposite. That was the Ramsey house. LOL

Then the basement was a warren of areas and windowless cement areas. At least it was then. I recall seeing some pictures once that it has since been remodeled.
 
Again, that house is HUGE and most of the floors are a labyrinth of rooms. The Master Bedroom was on the third floor and isolated. The kids' bedrooms (including bedrooms for the adult children and one play area) were one floor below that. The first floor had something like 30 windows and 5 or 6 entrance/patio doors and several rooms. Think of something "Open Concept" on HGTV and then think of the opposite. That was the Ramsey house. LOL

Then the basement was a warren of areas and windowless cement areas. At least it was then. I recall seeing some pictures once that it has since been remodeled.
I don't care how big the house is, if my child is being woken by someone they don't know in the middle of the night and carried away to be tortured, you bet I'll hear them screaming their little heads off. It doesn't make sense that this was some random stranger and no peep from anyone?
 
From Perfect Murder, Perfect Town

PMPT Page 433

"The police had to piece together the findings of the various pathologists, who had explained to them that when food is swallowed, it goes first to the stomach, then passes to the duodenum, and from there to the lower small intestine. Eventually, the digested food passes into the large bowel, from which it exits. Food found in the stomach and intestines can sometimes be used to estimate the time of ingestion and to narrow the time of death.

In the Ramseys' dining room, just steps away from the kitchen, the police had found a bowl with fresh pineapple in it. Meyer noted in his report that the pineapple in JonBenét's small intestine was in near-perfect condition -- it had sharp edges and looked as if it had been recently eaten and poorly chewed.

Based on the condition of the pineapple in her intestine, the experts estimated that JonBenét had eaten it an hour and a half or two hours before she died, most likely after the family returned home that night. If she had eaten the pineapple after 10:30 P.M., that made the approximate time of death not earlier than midnight."

Why would the police have to be piecing together the work of several pathologists? That is a very strange statement in and of itself.

The medical examiner(pathologist) performs the autopsy and gives their findings. Occasionally a defense attorney will engage the services of another pathologist to review the official findings, which includes extensive photographs performed during the post mortem examination and all laboratory results from tests run. The second pathologist may be called as an expert witness by the defense to attempt to show the death did not occur in the way the prosecution and the medical examiner say that it did. In rare instances a second autopsy is performed because matters are in great dispute.

There was a case like this in the Detroit area not all that many years ago where a coroner actually missed a bullet in a body that was subsequently uncovered in a second autopsy by the coroner or another county. If I remember correctly there is a dispute whether or not the case was suicide or murder, but I do not believe anyone has ever been charged with a crime and I don't even remember hearing a suspect has ever been named.
 
I don't care how big the house is, if my child is being woken by someone they don't know in the middle of the night and carried away to be tortured, you bet I'll hear them screaming their little heads off. It doesn't make sense that this was some random stranger and no peep from anyone?

Who said she was screaming her head off? How difficult would it be to put a hand over a sleeping child's mouth and carry them away, unable to make a peep? What if it was someone she was familiar with who was able to spin the child either a believable explanation to come with them or even if a stranger make enough of a menacing threat to keep the kid quiet until they had her two floors away from her sleeping parents? Elizabeth Smart was older than Jon Benet and was able to be silenced with a threat in very similar circumstances.

Hopefully your children are never in a situation to test your very confident words.
 
I don't care how big the house is, if my child is being woken by someone they don't know in the middle of the night and carried away to be tortured, you bet I'll hear them screaming their little heads off. It doesn't make sense that this was some random stranger and no peep from anyone?

But you don't know that it was a random stranger. It could have been someone she knew from her activities or school, or one of her parents' employees. You also don't know that she wasn't restrained, gagged, immobilized or even stunned. The stun gun is a hypothesis, never really proven or completely disproven. You don't even know that she made noise. Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her bedroom at age 14 by a man with a knife who told her to be quiet and nobody would be hurt. Her sister, in the same room, woke up and feigned sleep but her parents in their own bedroom heard nothing. She certainly would have been capable of making a much louder alert than a 6 year old little girl.
 
But you don't know that it was a random stranger. It could have been someone she knew from her activities or school, or one of her parents' employees. You also don't know that she wasn't restrained, gagged, immobilized or even stunned. The stun gun is a hypothesis, never really proven or completely disproven. You don't even know that she made noise. Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her bedroom at age 14 by a man with a knife who told her to be quiet and nobody would be hurt. Her sister, in the same room, woke up and feigned sleep but her parents in their own bedroom heard nothing. She certainly would have been capable of making a much louder alert than a 6 year old little girl.

Jinx, you owe me a coke!
 
Who said she was screaming her head off? How difficult would it be to put a hand over a sleeping child's mouth and carry them away, unable to make a peep? What if it was someone she was familiar with who was able to spin the child either a believable explanation to come with them or even if a stranger make enough of a menacing threat to keep the kid quiet until they had her two floors away from her sleeping parents? Elizabeth Smart was older than Jon Benet and was able to be silenced with a threat in very similar circumstances.

Hopefully your children are never in a situation to test your very confident words.
So the person threatened her and then fed her pineapple? She quietly ate without alerting someone before the torture began. None of it makes sense.
 
I don't care how big the house is, if my child is being woken by someone they don't know in the middle of the night and carried away to be tortured, you bet I'll hear them screaming their little heads off. It doesn't make sense that this was some random stranger and no peep from anyone?

We don't know if she was screaming. If the murderer entered her room while she was sleeping he could have easily covered her mouth, maybe even put the duct tape on it right there.
Maybe she woke up in the middle of the night, went downstairs and ate the pineapple on her own and he was there.
I don't think them not waking up and not hearing anything means they must have been guilty.
 
But you don't know that it was a random stranger. It could have been someone she knew from her activities or school, or one of her parents' employees. You also don't know that she wasn't restrained, gagged, immobilized or even stunned. The stun gun is a hypothesis, never really proven or completely disproven. You don't even know that she made noise. Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her bedroom at age 14 by a man with a knife who told her to be quiet and nobody would be hurt. Her sister, in the same room, woke up and feigned sleep but her parents in their own bedroom heard nothing. She certainly would have been capable of making a much louder alert than a 6 year old little girl.
I just don't know how the child wouldn't be confused if a friend of the family came by in the middle of the night and woke her up. Either stranger or family friend/coworker scenario makes me completely baffled. No way would that not raise a red flag. If she was immobilized how did they feed her pineapple?

The only way I could see this play out is if the little girl went down stairs, made the snack her self right when the kidnappers decided to strike. Which I guess is possible.
 
Regarding the pineapple:

Did they find a fruit platter in the refrigerator? Is it normal for the family to keep cut up fruit in their refrigerator?

Was a can found from the pineapple? If so, where? Fingerprints?

Was it fresh pineapple? If so, that is definitely not something a child could cut up.

My grocery store sells plastic containers of fresh cut pineapple, the deli puts it together daily. She did not necessarily have to cut it up, nor did a potential intruder.
 
We don't know if she was screaming. If the murderer entered her room while she was sleeping he could have easily covered her mouth, maybe even put the duct tape on it right there.
Maybe she woke up in the middle of the night, went downstairs and ate the pineapple on her own and he was there.
I don't think them not waking up and not hearing anything means they must have been guilty.
Well, when I say family member, I don't mean just the parents. Family, close friends, etc. Random stranger just has me baffled.
 












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