JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[cabanafrau]

But does that really matter if it was written before or after she died? My point is, nobody except the Ramseys would feel comfortable enough to sit there and write such a long note on the Ramseys own pen and paper and then put everything back neatly. Even if they were in the house when the Ramseys weren't home, anyone could come home at any minute. Patsy or John could've forgotten something, their housekeeper could have shown up. Nobody would ever feel that confident. And the note was not folded, so it's unlikely they wrote it while in the house days before the murder and then took it with them.

Not if they've had the ability to slip in and out of the house undetected for some time, perhaps even having a hiding place, or two, where they've been able to observe the family and household undetected.

 

[LisaR]

But does that really matter if it was written before or after she died? My point is, nobody except the Ramseys would feel comfortable enough to sit there and write such a long note on the Ramseys own pen and paper and then put everything back neatly. Even if they were in the house when the Ramseys weren't home, anyone could come home at any minute. Patsy or John could've forgotten something, their housekeeper could have shown up. Nobody would ever feel that confident. And the note was not folded, so it's unlikely they wrote it while in the house days before the murder and then took it with them.

Why do you assume they wrote it IN the home? If this is a person who had the ability to come and go, isn't it possible they took the notepad home with them the day before, a week before, or even a month before, thoughtfully composed their note without any pressure, and then returned the notepad and pen the day of the murder?

 

[sunshinehighway]

I only asked the question in the first place because people in this thread were stating that it was unbelievable that the person would murder JBR and then take the time to compose a long note. I merely wondered why they were so sure JBR must have been dead when the note was written. Just because it was written in the house does not mean it had to be written after she died. Since some posters here took that as fact, I wondered what the basis for that fact was.

I'm less prepared than you to state that "nobody would ever feel that confident." I have no idea what delusions child murders live with.

The note could have been written while she ate the pineapple.

There's so many things about the whole thing that don't appear to make sense.
If the killer had planned out what he wanted to write then it really wouldn't have taken a huge amount of time to write it. Although what's the point of leaving it when she's been murdered
I'm not really sure it makes sense that Patsy wrote it either. What's the point? They called the police early. It's not like they were using it to buy time. The body was still in the house so it's not like they were trying to make it look like she was kidnapped and dumped somewhere.

Edited to add:
It was also a huge house, over 10,000 square feet I think. In a house that size, I would think, there's not as great of a fear of being heard and getting caught as there would be in a more normal sized house.

 

[cabanafrau]

It's not inconceivable that someone could even have a copy of a key to that house that no one knows about, or would even dream had a copy. Hypothetically, what if the housekeeper has a key to the house and someone close to her has the opportunity to take it without her being aware, have a duplicate made and replace her key without her having any idea? That person could have knowledge of the housekeeper's schedule and possibly some insight here and there into a general outline of the comings and goings of the family, leaving them opportunity to explore the house over an unknown period of time without being detected. If they're really clever, writing that ransom note with household items leaves much less of a trail leading anywhere else or to anyone else than bringing in a note would.

 

[Suger Mag]

The note could have been written while she ate the pineapple.

There's so many things about the whole thing that don't appear to make sense.
If the killer had planned out what he wanted to write then it really wouldn't have taken a huge amount of time to write it. Although what's the point of leaving it when she's been murdered
I'm not really sure it makes sense that Patsy wrote it either. What's the point? They called the police early. It's not like they were using it to buy time. The body was still in the house so it's not like they were trying to make it look like she was kidnapped and dumped somewhere.

I think writing a ransom note is a red herring, Instead of looking too carefully in the house, people are looking elsewhere for a kidnapped child... bus stations, trains etc... not for a body in the cellar.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

What's up with the pineapple scenario? They didn't talk about that much in the Dateline special.

 

[JaneBanks]

Pineapple was found in JB's digestive track (meaning that was the last thing she had eaten before she died; it hadn't been properly digested yet) and there was a half eaten bowl of pineapple on the table.

Why this is important -- The Ramsey's claim that JB fell asleep on the car ride home from the Christmas party they attended and was carried up in to bed and that JB didn't wake up. They don't know how the pineapple got there and when JB ate it since they claim the last thing she could have eaten was some crab at the Christmas party. Meanwhile, Patsy's and Burke's prints were found on the bowl so either she fed herself and ate out of a dirty bowl, they lied about going straight to bed that night or an intruder fed her pineapple before he killed her.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...The-Pineapple-in-the-Bowl-12-Days-of-JonBenet

 

[MataHari22]

Why do you assume they wrote it IN the home? If this is a person who had the ability to come and go, isn't it possible they took the notepad home with them the day before, a week before, or even a month before, thoughtfully composed their note without any pressure, and then returned the notepad and pen the day of the murder?

Because it wasn't thoughtfully composed, and they found other drafts of the note in the house. If they took the pad and pen outside of the house to write a well composed note, why would they return with the notes that they started and didn't finish and threw out? That makes no sense. Clearly, it looks like they were written in the house.

 

[msjprincess]

Because it wasn't thoughtfully composed, and they found other drafts of the note in the house. If they took the pad and pen outside of the house to write a well composed note, why would they return with the notes that they started and didn't finish and threw out? That makes no sense. Clearly, it looks like they were written in the house.

Do you happen to have a link to that? I know that there indentations indicating a rough draft found in the same pad. I haven't heard of other notes being found around the house.

 

[lovin'fl]

And to add to the pineapple story. It is thought an intrude used a stun gun to render JBR immobile to take down to basement. So how could he use a stun gun on her and then feed her pineapple while he wrote the ransom note?

 

[fly girl]

Pineapple was found in JB's stomach (meaning that was the last thing she had eaten before she died) and there was a half eaten bowl of pineapple on the table.

Why this is important -- The Ramsey's claim that JB fell asleep on the car ride home from the Christmas party they attended and was carried up in to bed and that JB didn't wake up. They don't know how the pineapple got there and when JB ate it since they claim the last thing she could have eaten was some crab at the Christmas party. Meanwhile, Patsy's and Burke's prints were found on the bowl so either she fed herself and ate out of a dirty bowl, they lied about going straight to bed that night or an intruder fed her pineapple before he killed her.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...The-Pineapple-in-the-Bowl-12-Days-of-JonBenet

I'm just rediscovering this case and my opinion changes minute to minute, so my question is not meant as a debunk but a real legit query.

Wouldn't it be plausible that their prints could be on the bowl from putting away dishes?

The note and the pineapple are the two things that completely perplex me.

 

[cabanafrau]

And to add to the pineapple story. It is thought an intrude used a stun gun to render JBR immobile to take down to basement. So how could he use a stun gun on her and then feed her pineapple while he wrote the ransom note?

"It is thought"? I think even the stun gun is speculation, no?

 

[msjprincess]

I'm just rediscovering this case and my opinion changes minute to minute, so my question is not meant as a debunk but a real legit query.

Wouldn't it be plausible that their prints could be on the bowl from putting away dishes?

The note and the pineapple are the two things that completely perplex me.

I can almost guarantee that every bowl and plate in my house has my fingerprints on it.


ETA
and it is possible for my kids to eat out of a dish and not get fingerprints on it, depending on what they're eating.

 

[pryncess527]

Meanwhile, Patsy's and Burke's prints were found on the bowl so either she fed herself and ate out of a dirty bowl, they lied about going straight to bed that night or an intruder fed her pineapple before he killed her.

Or Patsy and Burke unloaded the dishwasher, transporting their fingerprints to a clean bowl?

 

[msjprincess]

"It is thought"? I think even the stun gun is speculation, no?

I'm pretty sure it's just a theory that has never been proven.

 

[JaneBanks]

Whoops! I forgot to quote. IE the bowl with Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints: Sure, it is possible. Anything is.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm pretty sure it's just a theory that has never been proven.

That's my point. People are taking speculation from TV shows and websites and treating them as if they are evidence, or even legitimate working theories of the case.

 

[pryncess527]

"It is thought"? I think even the stun gun is speculation, no?

Yes, it is. And the marks on her body from the autopsy which led to the stun gun speculation were determined NOT to match stun gun prongs in either shape or distance from one another. The Forensic Pathologist who did the autopsy -- the ONLY person with the qualifications to make that determination, said they were abrasions. Not stun gun burns.

 

[MataHari22]

Do you happen to have a link to that? I know that there indentations indicating a rough draft found in the same pad. I haven't heard of other notes being found around the house.

I just remember that police said they found a “rough draft” of the note on the same pad of paper. So, I did phrase that wrong. I thought that meant actual half started notes. But you're saying it was just indentations on the pad? I have not seen these recent shows. I do have some scheduled to DVR. So, I suppose I should refrain from commenting. Apologies. Though, I still think the note was written in the house.

 

[sunshinehighway]

What's up with the pineapple scenario? They didn't talk about that much in the Dateline special.

Pineapple was found in JB's stomach (meaning that was the last thing she had eaten before she died) and there was a half eaten bowl of pineapple on the table.

Why this is important -- The Ramsey's claim that JB fell asleep on the car ride home from the Christmas party they attended and was carried up in to bed and that JB didn't wake up. They don't know how the pineapple got there and when JB ate it since they claim the last thing she could have eaten was some crab at the Christmas party. Meanwhile, Patsy's and Burke's prints were found on the bowl so either she ate out of a dirty bowl or they lied about going straight to bed that night.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...The-Pineapple-in-the-Bowl-12-Days-of-JonBenet

Even the pineapple thing is so odd.
First it was a big bowl of pineapple with a large serving spoon. Who's giving that to a kid? I can't imagine her parents would have given it to her like that.
Besides why lie about it? What do they gain from that? Even if they deny feeding it to her they could still say they had left it out. It could then be easily explained as she ate a few pieces because it was out on the table.