JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[msjprincess]

That's my point. People are taking speculation from TV shows and websites and treating them as if they are evidence, or even legitimate working theories of the case.

I know, I was agreeing with you. I used to read WebSleuths. Until I started reading about a case that was local for me. That's when I realized that many of the people there come up with crazy theories and run with it.

 

[JaneBanks]

Do you happen to have a link to that? I know that there indentations indicating a rough draft found in the same pad. I haven't heard of other notes being found around the house.

• Materials Used to Write RN. "the Ransom Note was drafted on paper taken from the middle of a pad of paper located at defendants' home and with a pen found at defendants' home. Additional sheets were missing from the pad and were never located at defendants' home. The pen used to write the Ransom Note was sourced to defendants' home and found placed back in its normal place by the phone. Finally, there was another page in the pad that had written on it "Mr. and Mrs. I," which many believe to have been an early "false start" of the Ransom Note. (PSDMF P 51.)" (Carnes 2003:24-25).

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682518/The Ransom Note

Taken from
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder
By Steve Thomas, Donald A. Davis

Steve Thomas was a detective on the case.

That's my point. People are taking speculation from TV shows and websites and treating them as if they are evidence, or even legitimate working theories of the case.

It is a working theory for those who believe an intruder committed the crime. Detective Lou Smit for example; although he is now deceased.

 

[wilkeliza]

I don't know much about the JonBenet Ramsey case because I was her brother's age when it happened. I remember it being every where and hearing that people thought the parents did it but never knew about the details of the crime.

What I will say is I know a little about crimes and DNA and how just because there is DNA it doesn't mean that a killer will be caught. I only know this because my mother's cousins (one of which was like her best friend from my understanding) were brutally murdered about 30 years ago. There was a ton of DNA evidence as the older sister was rapped as well as killed. They just caught the guy who did it last year. So they've had the DNA evidence for 30 years and the guy never went into the system. Oddly enough it was the guy who the police thought it was from the beginning but didn't have enough evidence to make him give a DNA sample. It took a friend of his cracking in jail to get enough information on the murder and the gun for them to finally get the warrant for the DNA. 30 years my family waited to find out who did it and most of the family closest to the case have sadly all passed away including my mom's aunt and uncle.

So it is indeed possible to have DNA and wait for decades to find out who was involved.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I can almost guarantee that every bowl and plate in my house has my fingerprints on it.


ETA
and it is possible for my kids to eat out of a dish and not get fingerprints on it, depending on what they're eating.

Even if they get the snack themselves?

Or was the snack already available for her, where ever she ate it?

 

[msjprincess]

I just remember that police said they found a “rough draft” of the note on the same pad of paper. So, I did phrase that wrong. I thought that meant actual half started notes. But you're saying it was just indentations on the pad? I have not seen these recent shows. I do have some scheduled to DVR. So, I suppose I should refrain from commenting. Apologies. Though, I still think the note was written in the house.

I may be wrong and it was a rough draft not just an indentation. My main point though was I thought you were saying other notes were found around the house, not the same pad. Which the person could have taken from the house and brought back.

 

[msjprincess]

Even if they get the snack themselves?

Or was the snack already available for her, where ever she ate it?

No one knows where it came from. The killer may have gotten the bowl and was wearing gloves. Or Patsy or Burke put the bowl on the counter.

I have no idea how it got there. But I don't think the lack of fingerprints points to a family member being the killer.

 

[JaneBanks]

But why lie and say everyone went straight to bed? If the family had some pineapple before going to bed, why lie about it? Because they said JB fell asleep in the car and she was put straight to bed. Why lie about that? Very confusing.

 

[pryncess527]

But why lie and say everyone went straight to bed? If the family had some pineapple before going to bed, why lie about it? Because they said JB fell asleep in the car and she was put straight to bed. Why lie about that? Very confusing.

Why are you so sure they lied? Maybe JBR woke up and fixed a snack. Maybe the person who tried to kidnap her fed her a snack. Maybe 50 things I haven't thought of happened. Again, you are acting like it is a fact they lied, and I just don't see conclusive evidence of that. Or even airtight logic.

I may be wrong and it was a rough draft not just an indentation. My main point though was I thought you were saying other notes were found around the house, not the same pad. Which the person could have taken from the house and brought back.

I found this old article online mentioning it: http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/09/us/report-tells-of-draft-note-for-ransom.html

 

[mi*vida*loca]

But why lie and say everyone went straight to bed? If the family had some pineapple before going to bed, why lie about it? Because they said JB fell asleep in the car and she was put straight to bed. Why lie about that? Very confusing.

I don't even remember exactly what I did last night. And I wake up to dishes in the sink or on the table every morning. My kids are always snacking.

And if the parents did it.....do people see it as her mother giving her a last meal???

 

[cabanafrau]

But why lie and say everyone went straight to bed? If the family had some pineapple before going to bed, why lie about it? Because they said JB fell asleep in the car and she was put straight to bed. Why lie about that? Very confusing.

Why does the pineapple prove they lied? How does it prove they lied? They may well have told what they know truthfully and simply be unaware of the circumstances that resulted in pineapple being found in her system and the bowl being found out on the table. Even the fingerprints of family members being found on everyday objects in the home proves nothing in particular.

 

[lovin'fl]

"It is thought"? I think even the stun gun is speculation, no?

I actually don't believe it was a stun gun, that made the marks.

 

[cabanafrau]

People touch things everyday without leaving fingerprints behind. Even if there is evidence left behind that someone has touched or picked up an object readable fingerprints are routinely not left to be collected, analyzed and reveal an identifiable print.

 

[sunshinehighway]

But why lie and say everyone went straight to bed? If the family had some pineapple before going to bed, why lie about it? Because they said JB fell asleep in the car and she was put straight to bed. Why lie about that? Very confusing.

What do they gain from lying about it? If they are saying someone came in the middle of the night and took her what would it matter if they gave her pineapple before she went to bed? It still would have been somewhat early and not an unusual time to put her to bed. There's no obvious reason to lie about it so that means it's just as likely that they don't know what the pineapple was doing on the table.
It would be different if they got home super late and the time of death was determined to be shortly after that. They would have a reason to lie about going right to bed if that were the case, it's not though.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

The special I watched stated that the noose that strangled her was used to torture her. It was tightened then loosened. Her nail marks were around it proving she was still conscious when she was strangled. Some say she was knocked unconscious from the hit in her head and then strangled, but she must've been hit over the head after she was dead. I can’t see her parents doing that or doing that much staging to clear Burke. JBR was tortured. I can’t see her parents torturing her.

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't know much about the JonBenet Ramsey case because I was her brother's age when it happened. I remember it being every where and hearing that people thought the parents did it but never knew about the details of the crime.

What I will say is I know a little about crimes and DNA and how just because there is DNA it doesn't mean that a killer will be caught. I only know this because my mother's cousins (one of which was like her best friend from my understanding) were brutally murdered about 30 years ago. There was a ton of DNA evidence as the older sister was rapped as well as killed. They just caught the guy who did it last year. So they've had the DNA evidence for 30 years and the guy never went into the system. Oddly enough it was the guy who the police thought it was from the beginning but didn't have enough evidence to make him give a DNA sample. It took a friend of his cracking in jail to get enough information on the murder and the gun for them to finally get the warrant for the DNA. 30 years my family waited to find out who did it and most of the family closest to the case have sadly all passed away including my mom's aunt and uncle.

So it is indeed possible to have DNA and wait for decades to find out who was involved.

That had to have been horrible for your mother's family.

Obviously in that case the police had no probable cause to obtain a search warrant ordering collection of DNA from the suspect and his DNA was not in CODIS (the national criminal DNA database) to make a comparison with the DNA collected from the crime scene.

 

[LisaR]

Because it wasn't thoughtfully composed, and they found other drafts of the note in the house. If they took the pad and pen outside of the house to write a well composed note, why would they return with the notes that they started and didn't finish and threw out? That makes no sense. Clearly, it looks like they were written in the house.

Okay, thoughtful was the wrong word to use. I have a friend who composes ridiculously long rants on FB. I am far from a grammar Nazi, but she has horrendous grammar! I'm guessing, in her mind, her posts come off as thoughtful.

It's a 10,000 sq ft home. The person could have sat there for three hours while the family was gone and made multiple drafts until they put together what they felt was the perfect note.

My mom was just reminding me of an old neighbor we used to have who was mentally ill. He used to hide in the rafters of their attic for days on end. The home was about 900-1000 sq feet. If he could do that and it took months for the family to find his hiding spot, I'm guessing anyone could hang out in a 10,000 sq ft home even if the entire family was there.

 

[Tasha228]

Here is what I want to know. Why are people suspecting Burke? I'm not saying he's innocent. I just don't know. This case has been bizaare and had so many unanswered questions for so long that I don't know fully what I think anymore. But why Burke? I'm not saying a 9 year old wouldn't or couldn't do such a horrible thing. Unfortunately, I know there are child killers, albeit rare. But why is he suspected? What made people suspicious? Do they suspect a motive for why he would do that? Just curious. I truly hope one day this case is solved.

 

[JaneBanks]

This whole pineapple lie/not a lie is just too fishy to me when added up with everything else we know. But, that is my gut and years of reading and discussing.

 

[LisaR]

Regarding the pineapple:

Did they find a fruit platter in the refrigerator? Is it normal for the family to keep cut up fruit in their refrigerator?

Was a can found from the pineapple? If so, where? Fingerprints?

Was it fresh pineapple? If so, that is definitely not something a child could cut up.

 

[wilkeliza]

That had to have been horrible for your mother's family.

Obviously in that case the police had no probable cause to obtain a search warrant ordering collection of DNA from the suspect and his DNA was not in CODIS (the national criminal DNA database) to make a comparison with the DNA collected from the crime scene.

It was. If you are into true crime stories it may be one you are familiar with actually. It comes up in several searches of cold cases and had a thread on some of the internet sleuth websites.