Jon and Kate Plus 8, Official Thread--Part 7

[DMRick]

i'de be surprised if noone from a charity asked (dd and ds were/are both beneficiaries of different charitable kids medical organizations, we periodically get releases in the event they want to use the kid's images in materials, get asked to bring the kids to fund raising events)-i'm just guessing thegosselin's answer was either 'no' or came with a dollar figure

Ummm, umm, ummm, they might not have thought that Kate's voice would work

I don't think, before last January or February, they were big enough celebrities. Now that they are much more well known (most people I knew knew nothing about the show before the rag mags got the pictures) I'm thinking no charity wants to be hooked up with them.

In any case, it surely would just be a guess. I do think the charity places want really well known actors and actresses, even if it's a freebee.

But I do agree, that would have been a nice thing for them to do..too bad, now that they are well known, prob no one would have them.

 

[C.Ann]

I wonder what her relationships with her children will be like when they're adults. Kate seems to have a hard time maintaining any long-term relationships. Can you imagine her as a mother-in-law? Or with her girls? Think of how tumultuous mother-daughter relationships can be for adults, even under the best of circumstances. Throw in the hot mess of tabloids, humiliating reality show clips, TV interviews and internet blather (no offense to us) and you've got the makings of estrangement and tell-all books like no other. Kate thinks SHE had reasons to distance herself from her parents? Hoo, doggies!

That's a really scary thought - Kate as an MIL.. Think of all the threads we read here on the DIS about controlling MIL's.. It would not surprise me if at least some of the kids moved thousands of miles across the country -or even moved out of the country entirely to escape her controlling ways.. We've seen it happen on the DIS, and I've seen it happen in RL as well - anything to get away from a controlling parent or IL..

Oh my...could this be any more like a soap opera?
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/11/80476/index.html

Where is my big roll of duct tape when I need it? I swear - I'd like to visit Jon, Kate, and Hailey and wrap their entire heads in duct tape so they will SHUT UP!!

Just saw the Kate interview last night. My feelings:

2. The divorce was the fault of both Jon and Kate.
3. If she wants the Paparazzi to leave, she should end the show and not try to get into the acting business, as she claimed in the Q&A episode.
4. The Paparazzi are cruel.
5. The fact that her family turned on her and Jon turned on her prove to me that she definitely had to have SOME cause to Jon's change in behavior. In other words, it wasn't unprovoked.
6. She doesn't fully grasp the gravity of the reality TV show situation on the children's psychology when they grow up. Once the kids reach the age of 15 to 16, she might have to deal with some form of backlash from some of her children.
7. She had good intentions when deciding to do the reality show in the beginning. She didn't expect to get all the fame.
9. I think she has/will have some regret, but she will never admit it.
10. She justifies things by saying it is "for the children" way too much. For instance, in the Q&A episode she mentioned how she wants to get into acting because she is already getting a large amount of exposure. Then she quickly said ... you know, as a voice over for cartoons ... for the kids.


I feel bad for her, Jon, and the kids. It is very unfortunate. Looking at the older episodes, they were so happy and getting along quite well. I hope the best for their futures. I hope their kids don't have problems due to the reality show. I hope Jon and Kate can learn to communicate much better and have a better relationship. And I hope that Jon and Kate can find what they are searching for, because I don't think either of them have found it just yet.

I agree with the parts I have left intact above..

i think it's very telling and very sad that kate would publicly say that there are only 6 people in the world she trusts. i might not trust certain people with certain aspects of my personal life, and they might not be people i am constantly physicaly around but to say that i don't trust them? i have to have a certain level of trust to interact/associate with any individual-and certainly to a greater degree where my children are involved. that's an insult to all those that continue to support this family emotionaly-teachers, caregivers, spiritual leaders; and for me indicative of someone who is very one sided in their relationships.

I agree with the above as well.. No one who had even a semi-decent relationship with their friend, relative or adult child would stand by silently for all this time and watch Kate ripped to shreds without coming to her defense even once.. Adult or not, family is family and parents are parents.. Providing you have a good relationship with them, at some point someone is going to come forward and say, "Enough is enough! This is NOT who my friend/cousin/sister/daughter is.."

Does anyone know when the court date is for the suit that TLC has filed against Jon?

 

[walden]

Yep, I pretty much get that from the show. To me she seems to have most if not all of those qualities.

Why, thank you.

I'm glad I am not alone in seeing it on the DIS. Yes, the behaviors are definitely there to be seen on the show. Upfront and central with Kate. It saddens me that despite so many years of education on the types of abuse, so many people chose to ignore or excuse the typical characteristics.

So, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and try to keep educating. The Gosselin case is interesting because it is the woman who was primarily the abuser. Many people want to deny that women can also be abusive.

For those who want to dismiss my views out of hand -- I can only name abusive behavior when I see it, even from my armchair. And I have years of experience in working in Domestic Violence and many of my colleagues agree with me on the Gosselin situation.

Prevention is essential. So please think about it and educate yourselves. Take this well beyond Jon and Kate.

And for those of you who want to scoff at or deny abusive behavior. Please don't. It is unbecoming and denies the reality of many victims. Just saying.

 

[OhMari]

Knowing what we know now, I have little doubt that the plan (some months ago) was for Jon and Kate to go to therapy ... filmed for the show ... and would come to some sort of reconciliation and the series would end with a trip to Korea. Happily ever after. Kate could continue with her career and Jon could be released from his contract after that. Everyone would be happy, and the Gosselin brand would be intact. I really think that was the plan.

Unfortunately, life got in the way of that plan.

But, Jon did manage to stop the taping of the kids. But then again, the kids started school, and there is really nothing for TLC to tape for now.
On the interview, Kate confirmed that Jon is being sued by TLC for breaking his contract.
It is aggrivating, that they repeatedly said, if someone wants to stop taping, TLC would honor that.
I guess they meant the kids and not them.
I wonder how long it is going to take for the lawsuit to get to court,
or maybe your right Madge, and Jon will go back to taping.

I have to say I'm impressed at Kate's (and Jon's) cell phone carrier as well as their trash/recycle company for NOTHING leaking out! It's honestly amazing with everything else that we know about these people!

Didn't someone say, Jon tapped into Kate's phone, and he receives all her text messages and voicemails?

 

[whitneyNC]

Why, thank you.

I'm glad I am not alone in seeing it on the DIS. Yes, the behaviors are definitely there to be seen on the show. Upfront and central with Kate. It saddens me that despite so many years of education on the types of abuse, so many people chose to ignore or excuse the typical characteristics.

So, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and try to keep educating. The Gosselin case is interesting because it is the woman who was primarily the abuser. Many people want to deny that women can also be abusive.

For those who want to dismiss my views out of hand -- I can only name abusive behavior when I see it, even from my armchair. And I have years of experience in working in Domestic Violence and many of my colleagues agree with me on the Gosselin situation.

Prevention is essential. So please think about it and educate yourselves. Take this well beyond Jon and Kate.

And for those of you who want to scoff at or deny abusive behavior. Please don't. It is unbecoming and denies the reality of many victims. Just saying.

People do want to deny what they see. Maybe they don't want to unjustly accuse someone, maybe they aren't educated, maybe they are passive and just don't make an effort. This is why people end up living in a trash dump suburban back yard in tents with their two kids fathered by their abductor.

I am talking about domestic abuse GENERALLY, not comparing the highly publicized case of Jaycee to the Gosselin family. Yes, I agree with you that Kate is abusive (and a textbook narcissist). When someone acts the way she does (even in public) and has her social skills/track record it doesn't take a professional to see something is off.

 

[MAKmom]

Perhaps an idiot? Perhaps a fairly textbook case of survival from abuse?

Yes, I know many people here disagree with my conviction that Jon was abused, but here are the common symptoms of survivors of both genders: Isolation from others, feelings of low self-worth, depression, emotional problems, illness, increased alcohol or drug use, vulnerability to other abusive relationships . . .

And the characteristics of a verbally abusive wife/partner are here: http://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/male-victim-abuse.html


* She was verbally abused as a child, witnessed it in her own family, or was verbally abused by a previous partner.

Are you say Kate was abused by her parents?

* She has low self-esteem.

Kate does not have low self-eestem

* She has an intense temper, triggered by minor frustrations and arguments.

She has a temper I give you that. #1

* Her sense of power or control depends on her partner's acquiescence and his performance per her demands. She feels "in control" only if her partner is totally passive and giving in to all of her preferences and decisions.

On the show I saw her want hair bands & shoe for certain times like every other mother I know. She was always mothering. OCD maybe.

* She has rigid expectations or fantasies of marriage, partnership, or men, and will not compromise. She expects him to behave according to her expectations of what her partner should be like; perhaps the way her parents' marriage was, or its opposite. She demands that he change to accommodate her expectations.

I never saw this

* She projects the blame for all relationship difficulties onto her partner. She wouldn't get angry if only he would be who she wants him to be... She wouldn't drink if he didn't make her unhappy... She denies the need for counseling because there's "nothing wrong with her, only with him." She might not want him to get counseling because she's threatened by the threat of an outsider "taking sides" with him.

I never saw this

* Abusers are extremely possessive and jealous. They experience an intense desire to control their mates.

I never saw this.

* Abusers often have superficial relationships with other people. Her primary, if not exclusive, relationship is with her husband/boyfriend.

I never saw this.

* She may be described as having a dual personality -- she is either sweet or exceptionally cruel and sharp. She is selfish or generous depending on her mood.

I never saw this...Kate was bossy not cruel

* A major characteristic of abusers is their capacity to deceive others. She can be sweet, calm, charming and convincing.

I have no idea but who does

* The mate is usually a symbol. The abuser doesn't relate to her partner as a person in his own right, but as a symbol of a significant other. This is especially true when she's angry. She assumes that he is thinking, feeling, or acting like that significant other -- often her father (or other family member or authority figure).

I have not seen this


Seriously, do any of the above sound at all like Kate?

No? Really?

The Gosselin's dysfunctional marriage is being discussed in many psychology and social work classrooms today, and some of their interactions will be described in yet to be published textbooks.

 

[susykt4]

Walden, I agree that Kate certainly has issues. I question whether the abuse Jon endured was "bad" enough to "justify" his recent poor behaviors. It seems you are dismissing Jon's outrageous behavior because he's a victim of Kate's abuse. I guess I just can't give him that much credit. He's an adult and he's acting like an idiot.

 

[mhsjax]

And it can't just be that Beth didn't like the attention, or that she has gone back to school and wanted to concentrate on that? Or that Kate was no longer a SAHM and had other interests from Beth? Beth was a kind person, who volunteered to help when Kate needed her. They wrote the book together (one had the story, one had the skills). They are both going in different directions now. It doesn't have to mean anything sinister, or that Kate was using Beth. I have friends I've had for over 40 years. I had some that were friends when our kids went to nursery school together, who I don't see any longer..we just don't have the same things in common. I have friends that I only see when we are involved in certain programs, and I never see them unless we need each other's help.
I don't even know if they still talk to each other, since so far no one has posted the cell phone numbers that are used from Kate's phone. Maybe they are still friends...but again, maybe Beth doesn't want to be a part of this circus.

I guess there is some small very small chance. I am sorry but I don't like Kate and you can sugar coat everything that she does all you want, Kate is a self centered you know what. I like her at first, but not any more. And I know people like her, that love to name drop and cling onto anyone that has more than they do, and then drop them when it is no longer useful. Kate is a parasite that sucks the life out of everything that she touches. I am just sorry that so many people can't see through her. EDven know with her toned down personality, it seems so fake and rehearsed. I am usually spot on with my judgement of character even just watching people. I carefully watch their faces and if you really watch Kates face during book signings or when she is dealing with people on the show Ex: the organizor, the cupcake ladies on the tups birthday, the people doing her wedding in Hawaii, She had nothing but cold looks for them. Also HER statemnt about how she was so happy to be renewing her vows in Hawaii, because on the first wedding they wanted to do that, but their family either wouldn't or couldn't go to Hawaii for that. Wow, the nerve not being able to go to Hawaii for a wedding. She only thinks of herself. I just don't get the how people can think she is ok.

 

[mhsjax]

Walden, I agree that Kate certainly has issues. I question whether the abuse Jon endured was "bad" enough to "justify" his recent poor behaviors. It seems you are dismissing Jon's outrageous behavior because he's a victim of Kate's abuse. I guess I just can't give him that much credit. He's an adult and he's acting like an idiot.

I agreed with Walden, but just wanted to let you know that I think Jon is an idiot too. I don't think abuse gives anyone a right to behave like that. But I do agree that he shouldn't have put up with her nonsense.

 

[mhsjax]

I'm sorry, Kate not cruel, Gee how about threatening to throw a child favorite stuffed animal away because gum got on it, And the child crying and begging her not too. If that wasn't cruel I don't know what was. I could have reached through the tv and smacked that woman. Also not letting the older girls play with markers at crayola world and them begging her too, Um excuse me but those markers are washable, SHE IS CRUEL

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I guess there is some small very small chance. I am sorry but I don't like Kate and you can sugar coat everything that she does all you want, Kate is a self centered you know what.

*********

Wow, the nerve not being able to go to Hawaii for a wedding. She only thinks of herself. I just don't get the how people can think she is ok.

Noone excuses Kate's actions.

Noone is sugar coating anyone.

But you do seem to be taking your disdain to prove she is worse than she is.

That is the no different than sugar coating it.

Taking what you see, applying your opinions to it to spin it in the direction you want to go and voila--you have *proof* for your hypothesis.

The fact you are taking what people say here and stating that we must think her actions are okay--seems that once again, you are taking what you read and spinning it to fit in with what you believe.

Lots of people who seem to "support" Kate (or refuse to condemn her, anyway) would agree that she is not a nice person and don't "excuse" what she does. In fact many of us have stated she has done many inappropriate things. But for some reason that gets missed completely b/c we refuse to be mean about it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm sorry, Kate not cruel, Gee how about threatening to throw a child favorite stuffed animal away because gum got on it, And the child crying and begging her not too. If that wasn't cruel I don't know what was. I could have reached through the tv and smacked that woman. Also not letting the older girls play with markers at crayola world and them begging her too, Um excuse me but those markers are washable, SHE IS CRUEL

In Kate's mind it was ruined.

But folks seem to say "oh poor Jodi--she was just being nice to the kids and let them play with gum b/c that mean old Kate is just too controlling and wont' let the kids have fun."

And Jodi's kindness resulted in a toy getting "ruined". So why not place the blame where it belongs??? Jodi ruined the toy--perhaps Jodi should have offered to replace it. But no, she keeps the gum incident a secret and Kate finds it in the toy and unable to clean it.

Gum doesn't wash out--it can be cut out, but we don't know how much of the toy would have been ruined in doing that.

I can't call it completely cruel. Sorry. Especially since Jodi helped create the incident, but noone can seem to remember that. Sometimes, things get ruined and have to be pitched.

Cruel to not play with markers???

Then I'm cruel on a daily basis. My kids get it all over their clothes still and all over the dining room table. Washable markers don't wash out of everything. So they stay out of the way and I always say "no". B/c I don't feel like cleaning up the mess.

 

[mhsjax]

Noone excuses Kate's actions.

Noone is sugar coating anyone.

But you do seem to be taking your disdain to prove she is worse than she is.

That is the no different than sugar coating it.

Taking what you see, applying your opinions to it to spin it in the direction you want to go and voila--you have *proof* for your hypothesis.

The fact you are taking what people say here and stating that we must think her actions are okay--seems that once again, you are taking what you read and spinning it to fit in with what you believe.

Lots of people who seem to "support" Kate (or refuse to condemn her, anyway) would agree that she is not a nice person and don't "excuse" what she does. In fact many of us have stated she has done many inappropriate things. But for some reason that gets missed completely b/c we refuse to be mean about it.

Maybe I wasn't speaking about you, there are some on here, that no matter what Kate does, there is a reason, and it doesn't involve Kate doing anything wrong. I am not being mean about anything, this is the way that I see her and I am expressing my opinion. I never said I had proof, however, there have been posters here that say they know things to be true in favor of Kate. And I am sorry but there are people here that excuse Kates actions.

 

[C.Ann]

Here's an interesting article - written by a divorce lawyer.. Don't let the title scare you off - she is giving a balanced opinion of her views on Jon and Kate both..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karen-thalacker/pity-party-cry-a-thon-may_b_343684.html

What I found interesting is that she herself no longer allows her children to watch this show - and advises Kate to find a way of supporting her children that does not include having her children on tv.. It isn't stated in a mean spirited way at all - just basically saying the same thing that all of us who are "Team Kids" have been saying for a long, long time now..

 

[mhsjax]

In Kate's mind it was ruined.

But folks seem to say "oh poor Jodi--she was just being nice to the kids and let them play with gum b/c that mean old Kate is just too controlling and wont' let the kids have fun."

And Jodi's kindness resulted in a toy getting "ruined". So why not place the blame where it belongs??? Jodi ruined the toy--perhaps Jodi should have offered to replace it. But no, she keeps the gum incident a secret and Kate finds it in the toy and unable to clean it.

Gum doesn't wash out--it can be cut out, but we don't know how much of the toy would have been ruined in doing that.

I can't call it completely cruel. Sorry. Especially since Jodi helped create the incident, but noone can seem to remember that. Sometimes, things get ruined and have to be pitched.

Cruel to not play with markers???

Then I'm cruel on a daily basis. My kids get it all over their clothes still and all over the dining room table. Washable markers don't wash out of everything. So they stay out of the way and I always say "no". B/c I don't feel like cleaning up the mess.

I sorry, I never said Jodi wasn't part of it, but she wasn't punishing Jodi now was she? I have three of my own, and you can get enough gum out of stuff that you can still keep it, and as far as washable markers, I haven't yet jfound anything that I can't get it out of. So I standby MY opinion.

This is what I am talking about, Kate can be justified when she threatens to throw the poor kids stuffed animal away. Oh and by the way, she didn't bend down and explain it nicely, and Say I'm sorry but this is what happens and if we can't get it out then we will have to throw it away, NO she has one of her famous temper tantrums screaming at the kid about how it is going in the trash.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I sorry, I never said Jodi wasn't part of it, but she wasn't punishing Jodi now was she? I have three of my own, and you can get enough gum out of stuff that you can still keep it, and as far as washable markers, I haven't yet jfound anything that I can't get it out of. So I standby MY opinion.

This is what I am talking about, Kate can be justified when she threatens to throw the poor kids stuffed animal away. Oh and by the way, she didn't bend down and explain it nicely, and Say I'm sorry but this is what happens and if we can't get it out then we will have to throw it away, NO she has one of her famous temper tantrums screaming at the kid about how it is going in the trash.

She was miffed--and she did "punish" Jodi with a scathing phone call and that's when Team Jodi began.

No--I didn't "justify" Kate in "how" she did it. Kate doesn't explain things nicely. But then again, neither do I. I guess I'm Kate. Uh oh--we're in trouble. But she had her reasons for tossing the toy and if she considered it ruined, unless you were there personally to examine it we have to go with what Kate thought.

It's great you can get markers out of everything--I guess that's an indirect way of saying I suck at housekeeping.

 

[walden]

Walden, I agree that Kate certainly has issues. I question whether the abuse Jon endured was "bad" enough to "justify" his recent poor behaviors. It seems you are dismissing Jon's outrageous behavior because he's a victim of Kate's abuse. I guess I just can't give him that much credit. He's an adult and he's acting like an idiot.

Oh yes, Kate has issues. Major issues.

IMO, Jon is sucked out, dry and so damaged he can't quite be completely faulted on his (admittedly) totally disgusting behavior. I do not "like" him. Nor do I want to excuse him totally.

I'm just saying that I have dealt with so many victims who were similarly rudderless, but have eventually come through. With the right help.

But then there are those succubi who are taking advantage. TLC, Hailey and Rabbi Whatsit, I'm naming you. I'm not sure Jon Gosselin has the right help.

Frankly, the whole Gosselin debacle is problematic.

I hang in here because I see legal precedents in the offing, for the protection of the children. Gosselin/Dionne. That is where we are.

And heaven help those poor kids if their dysfunctional parents do get back together and continue to sell their lives on TV.

So sad.

 

[mhsjax]

She was miffed--and she did "punish" Jodi with a scathing phone call and that's when Team Jodi began.

No--I didn't "justify" Kate in "how" she did it. Kate doesn't explain things nicely. But then again, neither do I. I guess I'm Kate. Uh oh--we're in trouble. But she had her reasons for tossing the toy and if she considered it ruined, unless you were there personally to examine it we have to go with what Kate thought.

It's great you can get markers out of everything--I guess that's an indirect way of saying I suck at housekeeping.

Oh yes the scathing phone call when she said in her whinny voice, please no more gum. And I say whinny not in a bad way, but I do think she didn't want to yell at Jodi. But truly, she didn't yell at her like she did Collin or Joel, can't remember which one it is. And I am truly sorry, but I don't have to go with what Kate thought because by her own admission she is over the top germaphobe and germaphobes are clean freaks. Also on a lighter note, I certainly can't accuse anyone of sucking at housekeeping, I just said that I have never had any trouble getting those markers out of stuff. If you were to see my house now, well lets just put it this way, Nobody is getting in my house right now until I clean it up, which better be before hubby gets home or he will have a fit, because I really have nothings else to do tonight, and he will know that I have been on the DIS boards too long.

On a last note, People here will just have to accept that fact that I really don't like Kate, and its funny because although I do have moments when I think that she isn't so bad, I come on here and see some of the posts that so obviously defend her every move it just makes me realize that I really don't like her. And on that note, I don't like Jon either, I think they are both way beyond screwed up.

 

[C.Ann]

and its funny because although I do have moments when I think that she isn't so bad, I come on here and see some of the posts that so obviously defend her every move it just makes me realize that I really don't like her. And on that note, I don't like Jon either, I think they are both way beyond screwed up.

As someone else previously mentioned, I do believe there are several of Kate's PR people posting here - or at least they think they are her PR people..

Or maybe they are among the "6 people she can trust" group??

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Oh yes, Kate has issues. Major issues.

IMO, Jon is sucked out, dry and so damaged he can't quite be completely faulted on his (admittedly) totally disgusting behavior. I do not "like" him. Nor do I want to excuse him totally.

By his and Kate's account--he was a player before he got married and had that "bad boy" image....seems he has returnd to his roots--and yes, he can be completely faulted for that.