Jon and Kate Plus 8, Official Thread--Part 7

[AlienBrain]

Just saw the Kate interview last night. My feelings:

1. I feel bad for Kate, just like I feel bad for any single mother.
2. The divorce was the fault of both Jon and Kate.
3. If she wants the Paparazzi to leave, she should end the show and not try to get into the acting business, as she claimed in the Q&A episode.
4. The Paparazzi are cruel.
5. The fact that her family turned on her and Jon turned on her prove to me that she definitely had to have SOME cause to Jon's change in behavior. In other words, it wasn't unprovoked.
6. She doesn't fully grasp the gravity of the reality TV show situation on the children's psychology when they grow up. Once the kids reach the age of 15 to 16, she might have to deal with some form of backlash from some of her children.
7. She had good intentions when deciding to do the reality show in the beginning. She didn't expect to get all the fame. Whether her intentions were selfish or not in the past 2 years is debatable.
8. I don't think she truly understands everything that occurred in the past 5 years. She seems like she is in somewhat of a whirlwind. I feel bad for her in that respect.
9. I think she has/will have some regret, but she will never admit it.
10. She justifies things by saying it is "for the children" way too much. For instance, in the Q&A episode she mentioned how she wants to get into acting because she is already getting a large amount of exposure. Then she quickly said ... you know, as a voice over for cartoons ... for the kids.


I feel bad for her, Jon, and the kids. It is very unfortunate. Looking at the older episodes, they were so happy and getting along quite well. I hope the best for their futures. I hope their kids don't have problems due to the reality show. I hope Jon and Kate can learn to communicate much better and have a better relationship. And I hope that Jon and Kate can find what they are searching for, because I don't think either of them have found it just yet.

 

[DMRick]

An open letter to Hailey from momlogic.

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/10/open_letter_hailey_glassman_jon_gosselin.php

 

[madge]

[/B]


The only way this will get weirder will be if Jon & Kate reconcile

and that won't surprise me one bit.

 

[TanyaLovesPooh]

Oh my...could this be any more like a soap opera?
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/11/80476/index.html

Jon continues to do one thing and then says another. This drama that they are enacting on television is disgusting and fake. Jon and Hailey are playing a game to make some cash. Nothing like selling yourself out I suppose. Yeah, that is really in the best interest of the kids.

It is hard to believe one word that Jon says after this stunt.

http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/gosselin_igoring_rabbinical_advice_eRTZt2CevNKssFQbcGomQK

Despite claims of a split, Jon Gosselin is still sneaking around with girlfriend Hailey Glassman. After being advised by Rabbi Schmuley Boteach to ditch her, Gosselin was out with her Saturday night at P.D. O'Hurley's on West 72nd Street.

One of the things I don't understand about Jon is why does keep going around all over apologizing to Kate (for weeks now) he apologizes to her, then he says he wants to apologize to her. Why doesn't he just do it already? Kate said in her interview she talked to Jon a couple days ago, did he apologize? Why does he keep saying it everytime he has a microphone on? Apologize already and move on, you sound like an idiot.

Because he is saying what he is supposed to say for the court of public opinion.

I agree. You know, I'm pretty certain that the episode TLC is talking about here is the one where Kate puts up the tents. Remember the paps were snapping pics and the headlines were something about Kate spending their 10th anniversary alone? It was around the middle of May. Doesn't that sound right?

You are right about the anniversary episode. So we will see some scenes that were originally cut from the backyard camping. Kate never mentioned the day being her anniversary to the kids.

 

[TanyaLovesPooh]

and that won't surprise me one bit.

If I remember right, you were one of the first to say that this could all be one big stunt and it would end up with them miraculously back together. This was a couple of threads ago and at the time I thought you were way off Madge, but It could very well happen.

 

[3prettyprincesses]

and that won't surprise me one bit.

Actually, didn't someone suggest that this was all a huge publicity stunt? That J&K will reconcile and the show go on? I thought I remembered reading that here on the thread.

Jon continues to do one thing and then says another. This drama that they are enacting on television is disgusting and fake. Jon and Hailey are playing a game to make some cash. Nothing like selling yourself out I suppose. Yeah, that is really in the best interest of the kids.

Because he is saying what he is supposed to say for the court of public opinion.

It is ridiculous. Jon, please please please stay off TV! And Hailey, you too. So stupid. How great that once again, the kids are going to have a video reminder of this whole painful mess. Look Cara & Mady, it's your dad and his girlfriend fighting on TV and he's not even divorced from your mom yet. Geez, it's like Jon, Kate and Hailey are allergic to privacy. What, are they going to break out in hives if they don't stay on TV??

 

[madge]

If I remember right, you were one of the first to say that this could all be one big stunt and it would end up with them miraculously back together. This was a couple of threads ago and at the time I thought you were way off Madge, but It could very well happen.

Knowing what we know now, I have little doubt that the plan (some months ago) was for Jon and Kate to go to therapy ... filmed for the show ... and would come to some sort of reconciliation and the series would end with a trip to Korea. Happily ever after. Kate could continue with her career and Jon could be released from his contract after that. Everyone would be happy, and the Gosselin brand would be intact. I really think that was the plan.

Unfortunately, life got in the way of that plan.

 

[barkley]

sorry if some of the stuff i'm referencing is several pages back-i'm catching up cuz our internet was acting wonky yesterday

someone asked if the pennsylvania kid's insurance program i posted about was a medicaid program-it's not. it's one specificaly for people whose income and or assetts keep them from qualifying for medicaid for their kids.


re beth's absence-i've wondered if one of the factors was'nt the mingling of buisness and personal relationships. it was realy odd that 'multiple blessings' was originaly promoted as a purely 2 person project between kate and beth. there are old pre-publication articles and interviews out there that have kate going on about how bob and jon would watch the kids so that she and beth could be locked away working on it, that it was something she and beth worked exclusivly on. before the book was published but when you could order advanced copies the cover (and all the promotional materials) clearly listed just kate and beth as authors-then *poof*, right before it's released jon's name appears as an author-and no mention of him having brought forth anything to contribute (and i don't think kate ever mentioned him in the book tour either-it was always like she was the sole author). i would presume that jon's name being added to the cover as a co-author would have a financial impact on how people were paid-it could be that there were hard feelings over this.

add into the mix that at the end of the one season when we've seen the gosselins in what seems like constant contact/interaction with beth/her family, and even when not, beth's name constantly mentioned, we see kate very excited (jon too) that he's going to work for beth's husband. but then at the begining of the next all mention/appearances of beth/her family are gone and kate makes the comment that jon is now 'working for himself'-and said something that at the time i thought was kind of telling, it was a comment that went something like 'now he can be his own boss and call his own hours around what we need'. at the time it was like one of the first episodes of that season so we did'nt yet know we were'nt going to not being seeing beth anymore but even so-it came off odd to me, it did'nt seem to be necessary to be said and was like an intentional jab. in hindsight with the absence of beth i have to wonder if the whole employment thing ended up blowing up.


beth always struck me as a very nice, down to earth woman. she obviously was'nt hurting financialy but she struck me as the modest type (she would look somewhat embarrassed in some of those scences when they filmed at her home and kate would just fawn over the house and the property). she also seemed like someone who was very down to earth and caring of others-i'll never forget the look on her face during the utah trip when she was in the kitchen with some of the kids and one of the twins just made a realy intentionaly hateful/hurtful statement to one of the little girls. she just looked floored that one child would say that to another-and then she looked shocked when she addressed (very kindly imho) it with the twin and they basicly blew her off. i have to wonder if she just saw/heard too much and she decided that the dynamics were something she did'nt want to expose her own younger kids to.


i don't know-i just can't buy into the idea that the reason there's no one out there publicly saying positive/nice things about kate is because the media's not interested in printing it. you look to when other celebs were going through high profile nasty divorces and the media did'nt exclusivly report the negatives about them-even when one was being portrayed as the 'villian'. i think back to when brad pitt and jennifer aniston broke up, angelina joille was definatly being portrayed as a homewreaker yet that did'nt stop the media from talking positivly about her philanthropic efforts or keep positive comments from people she encountered personaly (non celebs) or professionaly (crew members) from being published.

i think it's very telling and very sad that kate would publicly say that there are only 6 people in the world she trusts. i might not trust certain people with certain aspects of my personal life, and they might not be people i am constantly physicaly around but to say that i don't trust them? i have to have a certain level of trust to interact/associate with any individual-and certainly to a greater degree where my children are involved. that's an insult to all those that continue to support this family emotionaly-teachers, caregivers, spiritual leaders; and for me indicative of someone who is very one sided in their relationships.

 

[DMRick]

add into the mix that at the end of the one season when we've seen the gosselins in what seems like constant contact/interaction with beth/her family, and even when not, beth's name constantly mentioned, we see kate very excited (jon too) that he's going to work for beth's husband. but then at the begining of the next all mention/appearances of beth/her family are gone and kate makes the comment that jon is now 'working for himself'-and said something that at the time i thought was kind of telling, it was a comment that went something like 'now he can be his own boss and call his own hours around what we need'. .

I don't know if it was this board, or another I check in on, but there was a lot of talk about Jon being fired by Beth's husband. If that happened, I could see where a rift would start. Wife sticking up for husband, etc. Beth did say she didn't like the publicity, and was going back to school, so without knowing if they talk privately, I'm going to just assume they stopped having much in common.

As for the postive about Kate (or Jon) not being posted. There did use to be some posted. But it was usually mocked and said to be for the show, so I wonder if the rag mags decided that wasn't going to sell mags, so they went back to the negative stuff. I'm sure they keep a close watch to what sells the mags. And right now, Jon and Kate in court, Jon's girlfriend, Kate's "I can't pay the bill's, let me look at a diamond ring" is selling.

 

[mhsjax]

I don't know if it was this board, or another I check in on, but there was a lot of talk about Jon being fired by Beth's husband. If that happened, I could see where a rift would start. Wife sticking up for husband, etc. Beth did say she didn't like the publicity, and was going back to school, so without knowing if they talk privately, I'm going to just assume they stopped having much in common.

As for the postive about Kate (or Jon) not being posted. There did use to be some posted. But it was usually mocked and said to be for the show, so I wonder if the rag mags decided that wasn't going to sell mags, so they went back to the negative stuff. I'm sure they keep a close watch to what sells the mags. And right now, Jon and Kate in court, Jon's girlfriend, Kate's "I can't pay the bill's, let me look at a diamond ring" is selling.

Yeah they stopped having much in common, Beth probably got tired of her, And now Kate has her own McMansion with lots of land so she doesn't have to suck up to Beth to use hers.

 

[MAKmom]

Yeah they stopped having much in common, Beth probably got tired of her, And now Kate has her own McMansion with lots of land so she doesn't have to suck up to Beth to use hers.

I read somewhere Beth's husband did not want anymore attention & wanted her off the show. Also that Beth & her husband lost their house, they had to down size.

 

[Seahunt]

10. She justifies things by saying it is "for the children" way too much. For instance, in the Q&A episode she mentioned how she wants to get into acting because she is already getting a large amount of exposure. Then she quickly said ... you know, as a voice over for cartoons ... for the kids.

ITA!

Because it's starting to sound insincere. Even last night on one of the news shows the reporter said that when Kate was asked why she got the speeding ticket she answered that she was rushing home to the kids. Kind of makes you roll your eyes when you hear it used so often.

I have to ask, does Jon even have any PR people? If so, he should fire them ASAP because his non-image is getting worse daily (if that's possible).

 

[MAKmom]

Perhaps an idiot? Perhaps a fairly textbook case of survival from abuse?

Yes, I know many people here disagree with my conviction that Jon was abused, but here are the common symptoms of survivors of both genders: Isolation from others, feelings of low self-worth, depression, emotional problems, illness, increased alcohol or drug use, vulnerability to other abusive relationships . . .

And the characteristics of a verbally abusive wife/partner are here: http://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/male-victim-abuse.html


* She was verbally abused as a child, witnessed it in her own family, or was verbally abused by a previous partner.

* She has low self-esteem.

* She has an intense temper, triggered by minor frustrations and arguments.

* Her sense of power or control depends on her partner's acquiescence and his performance per her demands. She feels "in control" only if her partner is totally passive and giving in to all of her preferences and decisions.

* She has rigid expectations or fantasies of marriage, partnership, or men, and will not compromise. She expects him to behave according to her expectations of what her partner should be like; perhaps the way her parents' marriage was, or its opposite. She demands that he change to accommodate her expectations.

* She projects the blame for all relationship difficulties onto her partner. She wouldn't get angry if only he would be who she wants him to be... She wouldn't drink if he didn't make her unhappy... She denies the need for counseling because there's "nothing wrong with her, only with him." She might not want him to get counseling because she's threatened by the threat of an outsider "taking sides" with him.

* Abusers are extremely possessive and jealous. They experience an intense desire to control their mates.

* Abusers often have superficial relationships with other people. Her primary, if not exclusive, relationship is with her husband/boyfriend.

* She may be described as having a dual personality -- she is either sweet or exceptionally cruel and sharp. She is selfish or generous depending on her mood.

* A major characteristic of abusers is their capacity to deceive others. She can be sweet, calm, charming and convincing.

* The mate is usually a symbol. The abuser doesn't relate to her partner as a person in his own right, but as a symbol of a significant other. This is especially true when she's angry. She assumes that he is thinking, feeling, or acting like that significant other -- often her father (or other family member or authority figure).



Seriously, do any of the above sound at all like Kate?

No? Really?

The Gosselin's dysfunctional marriage is being discussed in many psychology and social work classrooms today, and some of their interactions will be described in yet to be published textbooks.

This does not sound like Kate, thinking that is crazy. You get this from the show....... please

 

[barkley]

you know-it's funny that she mentions voice over work.

just last nite i was watching tv and saw a commercial for some kind of animal charity and it never showed the actress who was doing the voice over (but i reccognized who it was)-then at the very end you hear "i'm such and such and i support x charity which would realy appreciate your support". it struck me at the time (probably b/c i had been on this thread earlier in the day) that with all the charitable organizations that have historicaly helped the gosselins (easter seals, salvation army, church groups...) it would have seemed naturaly and a tremendous way of giving back had kate (or jon) back before this mess but still celebs getting lots of media coverage-had loaned just so much as their voice and identity to a commercial of this nature.

i can't imagine any charity (and esp. one that deals with kids) that would'nt have been thrilled to have the most high profile parents of a large family on t.v. saying they had some personal link to their charity promoting it.

there's no way on earth tlc would have been against something like a spot for easter seals with kate saying how they had helped out with a couple of their children through the generous support of contributions from the public-it would have created great goodwill (and i'm not sure how it works but it might be a tax writeoff for a network that airs them).

i'de be surprised if noone from a charity asked (dd and ds were/are both beneficiaries of different charitable kids medical organizations, we periodically get releases in the event they want to use the kid's images in materials, get asked to bring the kids to fund raising events)-i'm just guessing thegosselin's answer was either 'no' or came with a dollar figure

 

[mhsjax]

This does not sound like Kate, thinking that is crazy. You get this from the show....... please

Yep, I pretty much get that from the show. To me she seems to have most if not all of those qualities.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This does not sound like Kate, thinking that is crazy. You get this from the show....... please

I don't see that either.

Jon does many characteristic things a victim would NEVER do in the throws of abuse.

Armchair psychology--there's a reason why psychologists don't do it.

 

[mhsjax]

I read somewhere Beth's husband did not want anymore attention & wanted her off the show. Also that Beth & her husband lost their house, they had to down size.

Well, much like a lot of people here say, YOu can't believe everything that you read.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yep, I pretty much get that from the show. To me she seems to have most if not all of those qualities.

I can find many other psychiatric conditions and apply what I have observed to her on the show as well.

Unforunately, it does not make it so.

 

[DMRick]

Yeah they stopped having much in common, Beth probably got tired of her, And now Kate has her own McMansion with lots of land so she doesn't have to suck up to Beth to use hers.

And it can't just be that Beth didn't like the attention, or that she has gone back to school and wanted to concentrate on that? Or that Kate was no longer a SAHM and had other interests from Beth? Beth was a kind person, who volunteered to help when Kate needed her. They wrote the book together (one had the story, one had the skills). They are both going in different directions now. It doesn't have to mean anything sinister, or that Kate was using Beth. I have friends I've had for over 40 years. I had some that were friends when our kids went to nursery school together, who I don't see any longer..we just don't have the same things in common. I have friends that I only see when we are involved in certain programs, and I never see them unless we need each other's help.
I don't even know if they still talk to each other, since so far no one has posted the cell phone numbers that are used from Kate's phone. Maybe they are still friends...but again, maybe Beth doesn't want to be a part of this circus.

 

[newtodis]

since so far no one has posted the cell phone numbers that are used from Kate's phone.

I have to say I'm impressed at Kate's (and Jon's) cell phone carrier as well as their trash/recycle company for NOTHING leaking out! It's honestly amazing with everything else that we know about these people!