Jon and Kate Plus 8, Official Thread--Part 7

[DMRick]

Just wondering because you speak like you "know" for a fact that the people understood. How do you know for sure that this is what happened?

I just do. Believe it, or don't..I just do. This is one of only two things I know for sure, but I don't care to expound. Is that how you spell that word? It looks so wierd.

 

[DMRick]

I am also curious what would lead you to believe that she may not have had a falling out with her dad. She's admitted it.

I said that I do not think that is why her dad and Kate had a disagreement..over the cribs, which was what I originally quoted..about the cribs. I did say I don't even know if it was a disagreement they had (as in an argument), but again, I was talking about the cribs. If they had a disagreement over the cribs.

 

[DMRick]

I wonder what our thread number will be by the time the kids are old enough to write, if they do. I bet we can keep this going until them.

Throw in the hot mess of tabloids, humiliating reality show clips, TV interviews and internet blather (no offense to us) and you've got the makings of estrangement and tell-all books like no other. Kate thinks SHE had reasons to distance herself from her parents? Hoo, doggies!

 

[redrosesix]

Oh my...could this be any more like a soap opera?
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/11/80476/index.html

 

[mookie]

Oh my...could this be any more like a soap opera?
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/11/80476/index.html

wow. wow. wow.

 

[WaltD4Me]

Oh my...could this be any more like a soap opera?
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/11/80476/index.html

I saw the interview tonight. It was incredibly weird. Mary Hart was interviewing Hailey. Jon is sitting off camera watching. Mary Hart invites Jon to come over and sit on the interview too. Then Jon and Hailey start going back and forth. Mary Hart says she felt more like a therapist than an interviewer. Hailey says Jon loves her and she loves Jon, but the relationship isn't healthy. Mary Hart asks Jon if he is getting angry, he says "No, fustrated."

Tomorrow night they show the rest of the interview and previews show Jon storming out in the middle of the interview. This happens I think after Hailey says..."When Jon says he is going to be honest, I roll my eyes like the rest of the world."

 

[mikki'smom]

These two aren't even good at faking it any more...they need money...ET wants good ratings this week... so they've come up with this stunt...I really think that this is just their parody of Kate's interview with Natalie...there is no way in the world that Jon can "fix" his image because he doesn't have the skills to do it...these people are all clowns...

 

[WaltD4Me]

One of the things I don't understand about Jon is why does keep going around all over apologizing to Kate (for weeks now) he apologizes to her, then he says he wants to apologize to her. Why doesn't he just do it already? Kate said in her interview she talked to Jon a couple days ago, did he apologize? Why does he keep saying it everytime he has a microphone on? Apologize already and move on, you sound like an idiot.

 

[mikki'smom]

One of the things I don't understand about Jon is why does keep going around all over apologizing to Kate (for weeks now) he apologizes to her, then he says he wants to apologize to her. Why doesn't he just do it already? Kate said in her interview she talked to Jon a couple days ago, did he apologize? Why does he keep saying it everytime he has a microphone on? Apologize already and move on, you sound like an idiot.

That's because he is an idiot.

 

[MAKmom]

I saw the interview tonight. It was incredibly weird. Mary Hart was interviewing Hailey. Jon is sitting off camera watching. Mary Hart invites Jon to come over and sit on the interview too. Then Jon and Hailey start going back and forth. Mary Hart says she felt more like a therapist than an interviewer. Hailey says Jon loves her and she loves Jon, but the relationship isn't healthy. Mary Hart asks Jon if he is getting angry, he says "No, fustrated."

Tomorrow night they show the rest of the interview and previews show Jon storming out in the middle of the interview. This happens I think after Hailey says..."When Jon says he is going to be honest, I roll my eyes like the rest of the world."

Mary Heart tries to stop him & he kind of pushes her hand away or does a twist away. This was real IMO. I think the honest remark is the other affairs he had.

One of the things I don't understand about Jon is why does keep going around all over apologizing to Kate (for weeks now) he apologizes to her, then he says he wants to apologize to her. Why doesn't he just do it already? Kate said in her interview she talked to Jon a couple days ago, did he apologize? Why does he keep saying it everytime he has a microphone on? Apologize already and move on, you sound like an idiot.

Yet he appears on camera again with her.

My DH thought he looked clear last night. Not all doped up like he has been looking. He thinks the Rabbi is a first step for him.

The only way this will get weirder will be if Jon & Kate reconcile

 

[susykt4]

Wow. Jon is an idiot indeed! First he goes on national tv and allows Kate to treat him like crap, then he finds the "love of his life" in Hailey and allows her to treat him like crap on national tv. Here's Miss 22-yr-old telling Jon she doesn't believe a word out of his mouth and that he's not doing her family any favors by showing up to Thanksgiving. Even if it is a stunt, Jon is looking like the biggest pansy doofus on tv.

I used to wish Jon and Kate would fade from public existence, but now I hope Kate does get her talk show. I hope she's somehow popular enough to keep up her standard of living on her own because at this point Jon appears too stupid to financially help the family in any way!

 

[newtodis]

Well can I just send you a big

I can also understand not being "close" to family. I learned, and so did my husband even earlier, that we, ourselves, could not rely on family. Some friends have disappointed us too. But not being "close" with and cutting them off from all contact from children are two different things.

With both our families we have had to set firm boundaries, but we have always stayed in contact. My feeling is that you can and should cut off all contact if, and only if, such contact is really dangerous. Think violence, sexual abuse, acute alcoholism. Not because of a snit or disagreement.

Back to the Gosselins:

Unless Kate's parents were really malign, it makes no sense to me to cut them off totally from the grandchildren. Apparently Kate's Mom looked after the twins when she was on bed-rest for the tups, so I guess her parents were not truly awful . . . They were trusted with Mady and Cara.

It is not the lack of closeness displayed by Kate that bothers me. It is the all or nothing . . .

She now "only trusts 6 people." 4 of whom are supposedly the Neilds. Are the other two also paid employees? That is so sad.

Thanks for the hug

When we moved from MI I stayed in contact with NO ONE except 1 friend who I can honestly call a friend. I cut everyone else off....just quit returning voice mails, answering emails and everything else. I've never really "connected" with anyone but my kids who I love more than anything. Everyone else in my life is kind of in the "come or go" category with me. If you're here that's fine on my terms but if you're not, I'll be ok without you. I honestly believe that raising myself and my brother kind of brought me to this point and I've always had to be very independant. So no I'm not really "close" to anyone but have cut people out totally with no looking back really either....

I went through some of those situations which is another piece to my puzzle and again, why I think it's easier to let people just come and go in my life.

As for Kate's parents watching the twins, maybe that was an "opprotunity" (I don't think that's the right word)?? Who else would have been available to watch both girls for that length of time (I don't know all the details but I think Jon was around too when he wasn't working or with Kate at the hospital right?)

I thought she said two were the Neilds and I don't recall her saying a specific number but when I was watching it last night my darn kids kept talking!

I really am truly sorry about your family, and I DO believe you, things do happen. I see Kate as the problem not her family and with the limited info that you have given me and with you tone of your posts I would say that in your case it is your family that is the problem and not you. Viva la difference, (sorry I flunked French). lol

Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate that.

Thanks for thinking I'm not the problem. Sometimes I tend to think otherwise I'm just trying to show that there's another side to things - we all know there are so many different angles with this story!

Holy cow! I've been gone to Disney for only 10 days and there's over 60 pages to read! You all have been busy.

Welcome back! Glad you had a good time!!

I think they always replay Mondays show... I watch later in the week.

TLC, like the Food Network, replays everything over and over and over again....

Did anyone think it was weird when they showed the picture/clip of the crew? The crew was the old crew, the one that is now with the Duggars.

I did think that was really strange but maybe it's because Kate had mentioned the crew in the beginning? It would have seemed like a LOT of staff if they showed the first crew, the current crew and anyone else in between. People who only watching and didn't really follow (like us) wouldn't have gotten that it was several different crews I don't think.

Yeah, I get that, but celebrating your 10th wedding anniversary WITH YOUR KIDS when you are going through a divorce? That isn't confusing at all.

Didn't she just spend the day with them? I can't imagine her telling them that it's her anniversary - especially with everything else going on! I think there were pics and stories from this time frame so no new info for us!

If she has no one in her life, it's because she shoved them out..

Like I tried to point out above and in several other posts, that might not be the case. I understand that's how you look at it, but I'm just saying there are other options.

The most telling part (besides the silver platter statement; or was it gold??) last night was when Kate said the only sibling she was close to growing up was her little brother Kevin. They got along because he "took the blame for her misbehaviors, and even took her punishments." He was literally her whipping boy! One last thought, why does Kate keep referring to herself as a rule follower? I do not understand her numerous proclamations. During the Morales interview, she convaluted this more by saying how much trouble she stayed in as a kid. What?

I don't think she said they got along because he took the blame for her - I think her point was that he'd always stood up for her and how hurt she was that he'd "sold her out" to the tabloids.

As for the "rule following" and being in trouble as a kid, I'm sure I was in my fair share of trouble - whether actually from something I did or just being accused and punished for it - and am a very strict rule follower in some aspects of my life now that I'm "grown up".

they'll continue with new episodes through sweeps. I think, after that, they'll be done.

Didn't Kate say on Monday that it was a "sad goodbye" or something like that? I guess I took that to mean the show was finished.

Oh my...could this be any more like a soap opera?
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/11/80476/index.html

This is no worse that Radar or any of the other places taking this interview and streching it day after day after day.....ugh!

 

[walden]

Wow. Jon is an idiot indeed! First he goes on national tv and allows Kate to treat him like crap, then he finds the "love of his life" in Hailey and allows her to treat him like crap on national tv. Here's Miss 22-yr-old telling Jon she doesn't believe a word out of his mouth and that he's not doing her family any favors by showing up to Thanksgiving. Even if it is a stunt, Jon is looking like the biggest pansy doofus on tv.

I used to wish Jon and Kate would fade from public existence, but now I hope Kate does get her talk show. I hope she's somehow popular enough to keep up her standard of living on her own because at this point Jon appears too stupid to financially help the family in any way!

Perhaps an idiot? Perhaps a fairly textbook case of survival from abuse?

Yes, I know many people here disagree with my conviction that Jon was abused, but here are the common symptoms of survivors of both genders: Isolation from others, feelings of low self-worth, depression, emotional problems, illness, increased alcohol or drug use, vulnerability to other abusive relationships . . .

And the characteristics of a verbally abusive wife/partner are here: http://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/male-victim-abuse.html


* She was verbally abused as a child, witnessed it in her own family, or was verbally abused by a previous partner.

* She has low self-esteem.

* She has an intense temper, triggered by minor frustrations and arguments.

* Her sense of power or control depends on her partner's acquiescence and his performance per her demands. She feels "in control" only if her partner is totally passive and giving in to all of her preferences and decisions.

* She has rigid expectations or fantasies of marriage, partnership, or men, and will not compromise. She expects him to behave according to her expectations of what her partner should be like; perhaps the way her parents' marriage was, or its opposite. She demands that he change to accommodate her expectations.

* She projects the blame for all relationship difficulties onto her partner. She wouldn't get angry if only he would be who she wants him to be... She wouldn't drink if he didn't make her unhappy... She denies the need for counseling because there's "nothing wrong with her, only with him." She might not want him to get counseling because she's threatened by the threat of an outsider "taking sides" with him.

* Abusers are extremely possessive and jealous. They experience an intense desire to control their mates.

* Abusers often have superficial relationships with other people. Her primary, if not exclusive, relationship is with her husband/boyfriend.

* She may be described as having a dual personality -- she is either sweet or exceptionally cruel and sharp. She is selfish or generous depending on her mood.

* A major characteristic of abusers is their capacity to deceive others. She can be sweet, calm, charming and convincing.

* The mate is usually a symbol. The abuser doesn't relate to her partner as a person in his own right, but as a symbol of a significant other. This is especially true when she's angry. She assumes that he is thinking, feeling, or acting like that significant other -- often her father (or other family member or authority figure).



Seriously, do any of the above sound at all like Kate?

No? Really?

The Gosselin's dysfunctional marriage is being discussed in many psychology and social work classrooms today, and some of their interactions will be described in yet to be published textbooks.

 

[DreaGirl]

Didn't she just spend the day with them? I can't imagine her telling them that it's her anniversary - especially with everything else going on! I think there were pics and stories from this time frame so no new info for us!

Here is the episode description.

Episode: Nov. 16

Kate shares never before seen footage from the cutting room floor. The family decides to get passports for a big trip, Kate celebrates her 10th wedding anniversary with the kids, Jon tries to train the dogs and Kate hits the road for her book signing.

Spending the day and "celebrating" are two different things IMO.

 

[mikki'smom]

I used to wish Jon and Kate would fade from public existence, but now I hope Kate does get her talk show. I hope she's somehow popular enough to keep up her standard of living on her own because at this point Jon appears too stupid to financially help the family in any way!

Yep!

 

[DMRick]

Except from my armchair, I just don't really know Kate well enough to see if most of these things fit her. I just see an edited TV show and read a couple gossip boards. I certainly wouldn't know if their marriage is being disected in classrooms. I mean, how would they be able to, only seeing them on TV? I certainly don't believe that everyone who is a control freak has been abused or is an abuser. I think their personality is what it is. I agree with the poster who said Jon is acting like an idiot. I think he is what he says. A person who missed his 20's, and he's trying to get them back. I think they were doomed early in the marriage, and I think Jon wants to go back to when he was having fun.

Perhaps an idiot? Perhaps a fairly textbook case of survival from abuse?

Yes, I know many people here disagree with my conviction that Jon was abused, but here are the common symptoms of survivors of both genders: Isolation from others, feelings of low self-worth, depression, emotional problems, illness, increased alcohol or drug use, vulnerability to other abusive relationships . . .

And the characteristics of a verbally abusive wife/partner are here: http://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/male-victim-abuse.html


* She was verbally abused as a child, witnessed it in her own family, or was verbally abused by a previous partner.

* She has low self-esteem.

* She has an intense temper, triggered by minor frustrations and arguments.

* Her sense of power or control depends on her partner's acquiescence and his performance per her demands. She feels "in control" only if her partner is totally passive and giving in to all of her preferences and decisions.

* She has rigid expectations or fantasies of marriage, partnership, or men, and will not compromise. She expects him to behave according to her expectations of what her partner should be like; perhaps the way her parents' marriage was, or its opposite. She demands that he change to accommodate her expectations.

* She projects the blame for all relationship difficulties onto her partner. She wouldn't get angry if only he would be who she wants him to be... She wouldn't drink if he didn't make her unhappy... She denies the need for counseling because there's "nothing wrong with her, only with him." She might not want him to get counseling because she's threatened by the threat of an outsider "taking sides" with him.

* Abusers are extremely possessive and jealous. They experience an intense desire to control their mates.

* Abusers often have superficial relationships with other people. Her primary, if not exclusive, relationship is with her husband/boyfriend.

* She may be described as having a dual personality -- she is either sweet or exceptionally cruel and sharp. She is selfish or generous depending on her mood.

* A major characteristic of abusers is their capacity to deceive others. She can be sweet, calm, charming and convincing.

* The mate is usually a symbol. The abuser doesn't relate to her partner as a person in his own right, but as a symbol of a significant other. This is especially true when she's angry. She assumes that he is thinking, feeling, or acting like that significant other -- often her father (or other family member or authority figure).



Seriously, do any of the above sound at all like Kate?

No? Really?

The Gosselin's dysfunctional marriage is being discussed in many psychology and social work classrooms today, and some of their interactions will be described in yet to be published textbooks.

 

[newtodis]

Here is the episode description.

Episode: Nov. 16

Kate shares never before seen footage from the cutting room floor. The family decides to get passports for a big trip, Kate celebrates her 10th wedding anniversary with the kids, Jon tries to train the dogs and Kate hits the road for her book signing.

Spending the day and "celebrating" are two different things IMO.

Right - I saw that posted earlier. I can "celebrate" my anniversary with my boys even though DH's at work. I guess I don't think of celebrating an anniversary like celebrating a birthday (unless it's like a milestone anniversary). I can celebrate lots of things "with my kids". I'm still celebrating the event but they might not know about it at all. It's hard to explain I guess... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the episode brings.

Here's the "story" from that weekend. I recalled as soon as I saw the pictures because "the girls" are falling out of the dress and I'm pretty sure this is also when you could see more of Kate in other places than you wanted to as well...

Kate Gosselin films another episode of her hit TLC reality show, Jon & Kate Plus 8, by putting up a bouncy castle on Friday afternoon (June 12) in her front yard in Reading, Penn.

The 34-year-old mom and Jon Gosselin celebrate their 10th wedding anniversary today. Happy Anniversary!

Also spotted in the yard: daughters Cara and Hannah as well as the family dogs, two German Shepherd dogs named Shooka and Nala.

http://justjared.buzznet.com/2009/06/12/kate-gosselin-celebrates-10th-wedding-anniversary/

 

[3prettyprincesses]

Oh my...could this be any more like a soap opera?
http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/11/80476/index.html

Oh good grief! This is awful. Why go on camera to discuss your issues for the world to see? Sad, sad, sad. Hailey is a flake if she can't see that by doing this, she looks like an idiot. And Jon? What more can be said? I think he needs to dump Hailey, spend some more time in therapy and spend tons of time with his kids. He really strikes me as someone who has absolutely no direction in his life. Perhaps Rabbi what's his name will be able to help.

Here is the episode description.

Episode: Nov. 16

Kate shares never before seen footage from the cutting room floor. The family decides to get passports for a big trip, Kate celebrates her 10th wedding anniversary with the kids, Jon tries to train the dogs and Kate hits the road for her book signing.

Spending the day and "celebrating" are two different things IMO.

I agree. You know, I'm pretty certain that the episode TLC is talking about here is the one where Kate puts up the tents. Remember the paps were snapping pics and the headlines were something about Kate spending their 10th anniversary alone? It was around the middle of May. Doesn't that sound right?

 

[mikki'smom]

Just wanted to post #3000

 

[susykt4]

I'm not sure if I go along with the abuse thing or not... My mother is a lot like Kate. She was a stay at home mom and was never satisfied with her position in life. She treated my dad poorly. Nothing he did was (or is) ever good enough. I always felt like she wanted me to be a prize showdog who would do her bidding rather than be myself. She has been awful to my youngest brother for his not living up to her expectations.

My dad has a very successful business and has always provided well for the family. He's one of those easy-going people that everyone tends to like. My youngest brother is very intelligent but hasn't taken his college degree as far as my mother wishes. I was a tomboy and very independent rather than being a girly-girl who liked to stay in the house and sew. I am in the camp with those who maintain a relationship with their mother for the sake of my children. I don't actively and obviously fight with her, but I do avoid going to lunch or shopping just the two of us.

I'm obviously leaving tons of stuff out, but are we abuse victims? I actively work on NOT treating my husband and kids as I was treated growing up. Is being belittled for 10 years an excuse for acting like a complete idiot now? Would it be ok for me to not work and do idiotic things publicly and hurt my family because I was emotionally abused by my mother? Or would that be my choice and I would just be an idiot?