Jesus wasn't resurrected

[my4kids]

Thank you, but of course with the exception of Jesus, every other religion can say the same things. Heck, I send Christmas cards, and I am not "Christian" per se. Buddhists practice mindful living. They live each day seeing and feeling gods grace around them. I think that is as valid as mindfully living and seeing Jesus's grace around us.

And I can honestly say, that the whole dying on the cross thing... I am not really sure I want to worship a God that would require that sort of sacrifice. I understand that was supposed to be him showing love, but ... erk... I just cannot get past that. Does not seem like a kind loving god to me.

Yeah, that's where that tricky little thing called faith comes in. There are a lot of mysteries. I have faith because I truly feel the Holy Spirit in me. No one can talk you in to being a Christian. But maybe if you just say, "Ok - God, I'm not sure I believe this whole Trinity thing , and if it is true, I really don't like the whole thing abuot how your Son had to die for us, but I am going to open my heart and listen, and if it is true, please show me the way. " That's all you can do. If you don't get any answer, well nothing lost. If you do, it may be life changing.

 

[magicmato]

Yeah, that's where that tricky little thing called faith comes in. There are a lot of mysteries. I have faith because I truly feel the Holy Spirit in me. No one can talk you in to being a Christian. But maybe if you just say, "Ok - God, I'm not sure I believe this whole Trinity thing , and if it is true, I really don't like the whole thing abuot how your Son had to die for us, but I am going to open my heart and listen, and if it is true, please show me the way. " That's all you can do. If you don't get any answer, well nothing lost. If you do, it may be life changing.

Oh, I have, for more than 15 years. I have learned about as many faiths as you can imagine and have found beauty in most of them, but no revelations. I guess God is on the other line and I should hold as my call is very important to him. lol

 

[my4kids]

Oh, I have, for more than 15 years. I have learned about as many faiths as you can imagine and have found beauty in most of them, but no revelations. I guess God is on the other line and I should hold as my call is very important to him. lol

Uh huh, He's worth holding for. Well there's a reason for it. The beauty you have found in religions is God. Well, at least enjoy the music while you're on hold. You can even dance a little to it.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Oh, I have, for more than 15 years. I have learned about as many faiths as you can imagine and have found beauty in most of them, but no revelations. I guess God is on the other line and I should hold as my call is very important to him. lol

I remember that feeling. I went from Catholic, to agnostic, to New Age, to nothing and back to Catholic. There was no major event, no getting knocked off a horse like the Apostle Paul, I just kind of found my way there and when I got there I realized I was home.

You'll find your home too. I have faith in that.

 

[magicmato]

I remember that feeling. I went from Catholic, to agnostic, to New Age, to nothing and back to Catholic. There was no major event, no getting knocked off a horse like the Apostle Paul, I just kind of found my way there and when I got there I realized I was home.

You'll find your home too. I have faith in that.

Well, I started Catholic, then my dad broke with the church and we were agnostic and I have tried everything from New Age to Buddhism. None of them really did it for me, but I know I will never go back to Catholic (heretic that I am). I have way too many philosophical differences with the actual Church.

 

[cardaway]

I did.

 

[cardaway]

Right, because we all know anyone who is not christian is too dumb to understand abstract concepts? What a lovely thing to say!

But at least it's back on topic.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Well, I started Catholic, then my dad broke with the church and we were agnostic and I have tried everything from New Age to Buddhism. None of them really did it for me, but I know I will never go back to Catholic (heretic that I am). I have way too many philosophical differences with the actual Church.

Sometimes it's all about the journey and what we learn along the way. I learned things during my agnostic period that still help me now. I learned things from the New Age that I find useful still as well. Now, this is a PERSONAL opinion, so take it as that comes, but I think that the journey itself is part of God's plan. I think that I was led down a certain path, met certain people and I'm still being led every day.

 

[cardaway]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070228135009.htm

Most claim that Jesus was never married, but scholars of 1st century Judaism now argue that one had to be married to preach in the synagogue, and that is something Jesus did on many occasions (Luke 4:16). The single implication of the Talpiyot findings that strikes traditional Christianity at its root is that, if indeed this is Jesus of Nazareth's ossuary and bone fragments, then Jesus was not raised from the dead. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15: 13-14: "But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain."

 

[Fitswimmer]

I'm partial to this section of the article myself:

"Is there no way out of the dilemma for the believing Christian?" asks Flinn. "Do Christians, if they accept these harsh historical facts, have to give up all belief in resurrection? I believe they do not. In the Epistle to the Romans Chapter 4, where Paul talks about the physical condition of Abraham and Sarah, he does not say that they were infertile or barren, as many translations have it, but that they were "dead" in the womb and the loins. When Isaac was born, they experienced a resurrection of the flesh in the most literal sense of the term. Likewise, when the Prodigal Son returned to his grieving father, the father said to his resentful brother, 'For this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.' I call this the resurrection of everydayness. Christianity seems to have lost all sense of this dimension of life. The recent discoveries about 1st century Palestinian Judaism have forced many Christians to rediscover the Teaching of Jesus rather than to place all emphasis on the later teaching about Jesus."

"Many devout Christians are speaking up loudly saying the Talpiyot Tomb story is another hoax, like The Da Vinci Code," Flinn continues. "To them I give a word of caution: Dan Brown wrote fiction that had everso fragile filaments to the truth but ossuaries are ossuaries, names are names and bones are bones. I choose to remain interested but joyfully skeptical about all the new discoveries."

 

[jimmiej]

But the majority of the Bible is about a group of people who had never heard of Jesus Christ, didn't believe in Him, didn't ask Him to be their Savior, etc. It's hard for me to say the Bible is narrowly focused on Jesus Christ, when most of it, and most of the people in it, commune with God without having ever heard of Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that he was "the way". Many Christians take that to mean that Jews and Muslims and Buddhists are all going to burn in Hell. But Jesus did not say that. It's one thing for people to say, "Jesus said He is the way; I think that means Buddhists are going to burn in Hell". It's another thing to say, "Jesus said Buddhists are going to burn in Hell."

Personally, I don't think the fundamental message of Christianity is that if you don't say a salvation prayer to Jesus, you are going to burn in Hell. If that were the message, wouldn't Christ have said it?

Here's what He said just prior to His ascension:

Mark 16

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

[jimmiej]

Be careful when listening to folks who think they've figure out Biblical prophesy. If God wanted us to understand something, I think he would have just told us rather than burring it in a puzzle and forcing us to try and figure it out.

Just as an aside, Revelation 1 says:

1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

 

[salmoneous]

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Do you believe? Let's go with the full quote...

17And these signs shall follow them that believe: In My name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Taken literally, this would indicate that anyone who can't cast out devils or isn't immune for poison is condemned. And what does condemned mean? Well two verses earlier, Jesus is chewing out his Disciples for not believing. Does that mean he was condemning them to hell?

If you believe that all Jews, Muslims and Buddhists are going to hell, you find confirmation in that passage for what you already believe. But the verse is far from clear in stating that. Believe what? Believe it when? Do you get more than one chance to believe? Jesus certainly gave his disciples more than one chance - after they didn't believe, he showed up in person and said, in effect, "now do you believe?" Will he do that with everyone on Earth? And what is up with the snake handling and poison drinking? If we can't do those things, does that mean we aren't believers?

I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers. I have opinions about what the Bible is saying, but I don't *know*.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers. I have opinions about what the Bible is saying, but I don't *know*.

And that's where my frustration with some Christians is. They KNOW. Well, I don't think that we humans CAN know. That is God's job, to KNOW. Unless some of these folks were granted the power to be omnipotent while I was out of the room, I'm thinking they don't KNOW either.

 

[aquinas]

Just an update. Here is a variety of sources compiled in one location by a blogger commenting about the credibility or lack thereof of Cameron's latest piece of science fiction:

http://www.dennyburk.com/?p=628

 

[rockbottomsound]

Thank you, but of course with the exception of Jesus, every other religion can say the same things. Heck, I send Christmas cards, and I am not "Christian" per se. Buddhists practice mindful living. They live each day seeing and feeling gods grace around them. I think that is as valid as mindfully living and seeing Jesus's grace around us.

And I can honestly say, that the whole dying on the cross thing... I am not really sure I want to worship a God that would require that sort of sacrifice. I understand that was supposed to be him showing love, but ... erk... I just cannot get past that. Does not seem like a kind loving god to me.

I have a personal theory that I can't prove, but may make sense. I think that it is a possibility that Jesus volunteered to come down to earth to die to save humans. Not that he was forced too.

The whole debate could have centered around something like this between God and Jesus, "Why should I allow a murderous and warmongering race like that a chance to live where we do?" Jesus: "Well what if I volunteered to save them" God: "Well if you want to go for it."

Just a theory, of course, but it would make more sense as to why Jesus is the savior of mankind.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I have a personal theory that I can't prove, but may make sense. I think that it is a possibility that Jesus volunteered to come down to earth to die to save humans. Not that he was forced too.

That's interesting. It's more of a sacrifice if it was His choice. That's my argument about legislating religious rules. If it's illegal, it's not much of a sacrifice to avoid it.

 

[aquinas]

I have a personal theory that I can't prove, but may make sense. I think that it is a possibility that Jesus volunteered to come down to earth to die to save humans. Not that he was forced too.

The whole debate could have centered around something like this between God and Jesus, "Why should I allow a murderous and warmongering race like that a chance to live where we do?" Jesus: "Well what if I volunteered to save them" God: "Well if you want to go for it."

Just a theory, of course, but it would make more sense as to why Jesus is the savior of mankind.

You would have to disregard Mark 14:32-42 to come to that conclusion. Jesus says:

"Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will."

and disregard Mark 15:34, where Jesus cries out to God, "why have you forsaken me"

 

[jimmiej]

I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers. I have opinions about what the Bible is saying, but I don't *know*.

Here's the part of your post I was responding to:

Personally, I don't think the fundamental message of Christianity is that if you don't say a salvation prayer to Jesus, you are going to burn in Hell. If that were the message, wouldn't Christ have said it?

When taken in context with other passages such as John 14, Matthew 25, & other Biblical passages, it appears that may be exactly what He's saying.

I'm curious, what DO you think the fundamental message of Christianity is?

 

[The_Horned_King]

Again Aquias...why should I read someones blog??

Denny Burk is a no one...too top it off the "sources" are mostly from biblical scholars! Of course they are against it!!! (a few "popular media" links too. But even many of them come from places such as Christianity today and the Jerusulam News!!!!)

Where are the Historical Scholars??