Jesus wasn't resurrected

[magicmato]

What is that, if not a foundation?

My personal belief is that the book of Mark is the only true gospel. In the original ending, Jesus concluded that people were not ready for his message, and the women who saw him resurrected were too scared to speak of it to anyone.

And that's what I think actually happened.

We don't want it to be as simple as loving God and loving our neighbor. First, because loving our neighbor isn't all that simple when you think about it - because if you love your neighbor as yourself, you would be compelled to fight against poverty, injustice, hunger, crime, and all our other worldy tribulations.

Second - because people have some sort of need to separate themselves, to create exclusivity, to create ritual, to create the US and the unspecified "THEM" on whom all our hurts, big and small, can be blamed. "THOSE people" sometimes use the alias of "illegal immigrant" or "welfare cheat" or "non-believers". But they all boil down to the Other, the Not Like Me, the THEM.

Jesus wanted us to love our neighbor as ourselves, but I think he meant that everyone was our neighbor, not just the people we choose.

Wow, I really like what you said!

 

[jimmiej]

When Jesus was asked, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" he replied, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind' - this is the great and foremost commandment, and there is a second like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'. The whole Law and Prophets hang on these two commands."

This is what Rick Warren teaches in his book "The Purpose-Filled Life." Why are we here? To love God & love others.

I just think a fundamental message is something you come out and say - not something you have to piece together looking at verses all over the place and drawing some conclusions after which is appears that it may be what he's saying.

I honestly don't think Christianity has a single fundamental message. I don't think God wants us all to find the same message. If he did, he would have written a *much* more straightforward book.

Jesus did say somethings very clearly. For instance:

I believe the fundamental message of Christianity is REDEMPTION. More specifically, we have been separated from a holy God (our Creator) because of our sin. God sent His Son Jesus to take our punishment on the cross. We can now be righteous in the Father's eyes if we believe & accept Christ's sacrifice. I think that's overwhelmingly obvious in the gospels.

 

[Amity 3]

I believe the fundamental message of Christianity is REDEMPTION. More specifically, we have been separated from a holy God (our Creator) because of our sin. God sent His Son Jesus to take our punishment on the cross. We can now be righteous in the Father's eyes if we believe & accept Christ's sacrifice. I think that's overwhelmingly obvious in the gospels.

I wish it was a much simpler and better directed message like:

"Love all, Serve all"

the Hard Rock Cafe' made this up and invented a better mission statement then the bible did.

 

[The_Horned_King]

Playing devils advocate....what you all say about the gospels is great and all but what if you believe that the bible is nothing more then a made up story. No truth at all???

You keep quoting them as fact, but some may not believe that they are fact.

Man this thread is way off from the original topic.

 

[JoyG]

I believe the fundamental message of Christianity is REDEMPTION. More specifically, we have been separated from a holy God (our Creator) because of our sin. God sent His Son Jesus to take our punishment on the cross. We can now be righteous in the Father's eyes if we believe & accept Christ's sacrifice. I think that's overwhelmingly obvious in the gospels.

I agree.

 

[aquinas]

Looks like they found more in the tomb:

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDIyZjZkZjUzOWNiY2IwYmVjYzczNGE3NTZiMzdlODg=

Cameron Finds Christ!
What else in the ossuary?

By Dave Konig


Hollywood — Titanic director James Cameron unveiled today still more artifacts discovered in the tomb of Jesus. Cameron alleges these artifacts prove, once and for all, that the man Christians believe to be the Son of God actually got married, had a child, and moved to the suburbs:

An anniversary card “To My Wife” with a handwritten inscription by Jesus; “Mary, this year — I promise — we’ll get a babysitter and take a weekend at the Fontainebleau.”

Jesus Christ’s personal checkbook, from the Bank of Jerusalem, with a check stub for Jesus Jr.’s Tai Kwan Do lessons.

Several pairs of hardly worn women’s dress shoes that Cameron swears are “size 7 1/2 — Mary Magdalene’s shoe size!”

A baseball cap labeled “World’s Greatest Dad” with a handwritten note inscribed; “Pops — Happy Fathers Day (signed) Jesus Jr.”

On the side of the ossuary, a bumper sticker that, translated from the original Aramaic, reads: “Our Boy Is An Honor Student At Jerusalem High.”

Some refrigerator magnets shaped like oxen and goats.

A crayon drawing of a man who appears to be asleep. The drawing is labeled “Uncle Lazarus.”

A 2,000-year-old lottery ticket for the Jerusalem Powerball Mega Million Game. Scholars employed by Cameron’s production company maintain that the numbers on the ticket correspond exactly with the birthdays of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Jesus Jr.!

A discount pass for the Jerusalem Chuck E. Cheese “good until January 1st, 0033.”

Two ticket stubs to Cats.

It is about as plausible as Cameron's orginal claims

 

[magicmato]

Looks like they found more in the tomb:

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDIyZjZkZjUzOWNiY2IwYmVjYzczNGE3NTZiMzdlODg=



It is about as plausible as Cameron's orginal claims

Wow, you really want to discredit something that has not even aired yet. How strange.

Cameron has NOT claimed this is "the man turned God Jesus". Try to understand that. He has only claimed to have found a tomb with ossuaries, upon which there are names inscribed that match those in the Bible story. He has only noted that this *could* be them and perhaps even has put out there that if it were ever to be proven to be them (which is impossible since no one has even proven the Bible is fact), that it would prove Jesus and the others existed.

There is not an attack on your faith or on Christianity. It is an archeological discovery that has had a documentary made about it.

Try to at least stick to arguments about the facts and not make it a fight about something that is not even true.

 

[cardaway]

Wow, you really want to discredit something that has not even aired yet. How strange.

Cameron has NOT claimed this is "the man turned God Jesus". Try to understand that. He has only claimed to have found a tomb with ossuaries, upon which there are names inscribed that match those in the Bible story. He has only noted that this *could* be them and perhaps even has put out there that if it were ever to be proven to be them (which is impossible since no one has even proven the Bible is fact), that it would prove Jesus and the others existed.

There is not an attack on your faith or on Christianity. It is an archeological discovery that has had a documentary made about it.

Try to at least stick to arguments about the facts and not make it a fight about something that is not even true.

Obviously lots of people are very concerned about all this. Why else would they waste so much time. The extremist bloggers can't be that bored can they?

And of course had one of us on the other side posted something equally disatasteful Christians would freak out. I wonder if this will even get a reaction from anybody but the two of us.

 

[aquinas]

Wow, you really want to discredit something that has not even aired yet. How strange.

Cameron has NOT claimed this is "the man turned God Jesus". Try to understand that. He has only claimed to have found a tomb with ossuaries, upon which there are names inscribed that match those in the Bible story. He has only noted that this *could* be them and perhaps even has put out there that if it were ever to be proven to be them (which is impossible since no one has even proven the Bible is fact), that it would prove Jesus and the others existed.

There is not an attack on your faith or on Christianity. It is an archeological discovery that has had a documentary made about it.

Try to at least stick to arguments about the facts and not make it a fight about something that is not even true.

Yeah, uh huh. On the discovery channel website:

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/tomb/about/about.html

In the feature documentary The Lost Tomb of Jesus a case is made that the 2,000-year-old "Tomb of the Ten Ossuaries" belonged to the family of Jesus of Nazareth.

This tomb was found in 1980. This is NOTHING new. They already had a similar type program air in England about 10 years ago in which the claims were widely renounced.

I cant wait to see what they will roll out next year during Lent.

 

[aquinas]

Obviously lots of people are very concerned about all this. Why else would they waste so much time. The extremist bloggers can be that bored can they?

And of course had one of us on the other side posted something equally disatasteful Christians would freak out. I wonder if this will even get a reaction from anybody but the two of us.

It just shows the ridiculous nature of Cameron's "claims".

Oh, did you ever come up with some irrefutable science on this one?

 

[magicmato]

It just shows the ridiculous nature of Cameron's "claims".

Oh, did you ever come up with some irrefutable science on this one?

Ok, am not trying to attack your faith, because despite your posting style, I really do respect anyone who has faith as deep as you seem to...

But why is it any more "rediculous" to claim that you perhaps, could have, found a tomb that might have belonged to to Jesus than it is to state unequivocally that there is no way it could be because "he went to heaven body and soul and therefore anything left here is a hoax and set out to discredit our faith" ? You have to admit that to people who are not devout christians, that just sounds bizarre, illogical and quite a bit like magical thinking.

 

[magicmato]

Yeah, uh huh. On the discovery channel website:

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/tomb/about/about.html



This tomb was found in 1980. This is NOTHING new. They already had a similar type program air in England about 10 years ago in which the claims were widely renounced.

I cant wait to see what they will roll out next year during Lent.

BTW, from what you quoted on the Discovery Channel website, it right there states "a case is made that". They are not saying it is true, they are presenting an alternate theory.

Why you feel you need to scream from the rooftops that this is science fiction just because it differs from your POV is just beyond understanding. It has nothing to do with your faith, as your faith should stand alone. If it really does not matter to you what anyone says or what theories are presented, why the venom and time spent trying to convince us that there is no credibility there?

As the saying goes: Actions speak louder than words.

By being so vocal, you actually give credence to any possible theory that they may present. If it really was science fiction, then I would think one would laugh and move on.

 

[The_Horned_King]

Wow, you really want to discredit something that has not even aired yet. How strange.

Cameron has NOT claimed this is "the man turned God Jesus". Try to understand that. He has only claimed to have found a tomb with ossuaries, upon which there are names inscribed that match those in the Bible story. He has only noted that this *could* be them and perhaps even has put out there that if it were ever to be proven to be them (which is impossible since no one has even proven the Bible is fact), that it would prove Jesus and the others existed.

There is not an attack on your faith or on Christianity. It is an archeological discovery that has had a documentary made about it.

Try to at least stick to arguments about the facts and not make it a fight about something that is not even true.

So very true....

On another note
Aquinas tries so hard to make us believers...so hard that frankly it's a turn off.

Like said above why try so hard to tell us this is false? Are you that afarid that it could be real??? Do you have that little faith in your beliefs?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Obviously lots of people are very concerned about all this. Why else would they waste so much time. The extremist bloggers can't be that bored can they?

And of course had one of us on the other side posted something equally disatasteful Christians would freak out. I wonder if this will even get a reaction from anybody but the two of us.

I'm waiting until after I see it to say anything else about the documentary itself. It seems unfair to rate it positively or negatively until I'm able to see the whole thing, and I should have resisted the temptation to do so.

The article he posted sounds like something Jon Stewart or Saturday Night Live might do. Take the initial news story and run with it to find something funny. I'm usually snoring by the time those come on, but I'm sure they'll have a lot of fun with the reactions to it.

His editorial comment is just that-his comment. He's entitled to say it and I'm entitled to ignore it. I think I've pounded on him enough for one thread..

 

[magicmato]

Aquinas tries so hard to make us believers...so hard that frankly it's a turn off.

Yep. I have circled Christianity for near to 15 years now. I find a lot of beauty in it, but then when I delve closer, I am confronted by attitudes and presentations such as we have had here and I just get disgusted and look elsewhere again. Telling me that unless I believe all this magical stuff happened and will happen (not saying it is wrong to believe it, just giving my perspective, so please do not get mad at me), or I will burn in a lake of fire really makes me just think on whether I would want to be in heaven with that sort of person and quite frankly, the answer is no.

An eternity in heaven with the judgmental zealots is just as much heck as the real thing, were I to believe that heck existed, of course.

 

[Amity 3]

I still remember the right wingers screaming about boycotting the passion of the christ before it was released.

then it suddenly turned into a hip thing to go to a screening of it with members of your church and have group discussions about it.

prior to the release of the film, mel gibson was compared to satan, a couple of weeks later, christians were on the news fainting and crying their eyes out at the beauty of the film and the bravery of mel gibson.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I can't say I liked Passion, but I found it useful to my spirituality. I found it to be a fairly accurate visual of the Catholic Devotion of the Stations of the Cross. It's extremely violent, but the Romans don't really get high marks for their gentility. If Jesus was tortured and crucified by the Romans, I don't think it was that big a stretch.

I also thought the Last Temptation Of Christ useful in my spiritual journey-so Lord knows where that puts me on the "Are you a Good Christian or Are you a Bad Christian?" table. (you'll just have to imagine the Good Witch voice from Wizard of Oz when you read that question )

 

[aquinas]

BTW, from what you quoted on the Discovery Channel website, it right there states "a case is made that". They are not saying it is true, they are presenting an alternate theory.

Why you feel you need to scream from the rooftops that this is science fiction just because it differs from your POV is just beyond understanding. It has nothing to do with your faith, as your faith should stand alone. If it really does not matter to you what anyone says or what theories are presented, why the venom and time spent trying to convince us that there is no credibility there?

As the saying goes: Actions speak louder than words.

By being so vocal, you actually give credence to any possible theory that they may present. If it really was science fiction, then I would think one would laugh and move on.

It IS science fiction because the claims are so far fetched and they only have conjecture. It doesnt take a person of faith to see the total lack of credibility of this whole thing. People outside the Christian faith have denounced and disproven this as well. This thread was a discussion of the show so I am presenting my POV. This is an old story that has been proven false before.

SO, if Christians keep silent about it must be true. If Christians speak out against it, it must be true.

 

[aquinas]

I still remember the right wingers screaming about boycotting the passion of the christ before it was released.

then it suddenly turned into a hip thing to go to a screening of it with members of your church and have group discussions about it.

prior to the release of the film, mel gibson was compared to satan, a couple of weeks later, christians were on the news fainting and crying their eyes out at the beauty of the film and the bravery of mel gibson.

Hmmm....are you including some Jewish groups in with those screaming right wingers? Just curious.

 

[aquinas]

I'm waiting until after I see it to say anything else about the documentary itself. It seems unfair to rate it positively or negatively until I'm able to see the whole thing, and I should have resisted the temptation to do so.

The article he posted sounds like something Jon Stewart or Saturday Night Live might do. Take the initial news story and run with it to find something funny. I'm usually snoring by the time those come on, but I'm sure they'll have a lot of fun with the reactions to it.

His editorial comment is just that-his comment. He's entitled to say it and I'm entitled to ignore it. I think I've pounded on him enough for one thread..

Oh, I am going to watch the program as well. There will also be a round table discussion right after the show moderated by Ted Koppel which will be very interesting as well.