Jesus wasn't resurrected

[MrsPete]

I will just say that the names of the involved people were very common in those days.Its probably no big stretch to think that you might find grave sites with that grouping of names on it.

One of many possibilities -- none of which will ever prove anything conclusive!

 

[agnes!]

*IF* Mr. Cameron's claims were "true", why in the world would the Apostles be willing to die for a lie and for a liar? What would make Paul renounce his life of ease & his social standing as a Citizen of Rome to join up with a ragtag bunch of heretics? IMO, the only person Mr. Cameron believes in is himself...and that's probably only when he's just gotten married to his latest wife.

Should be interesting, this 'documentary'. I'll keep my eye on this story. (Btw, I think the OP is not a new poster, it looks like they've been a DIS'er since Feb 2006?)

agnes!

 

[agnes!]

Cameron and Mel Gibson are going to have a major smackdown.

Celebrity SmackDown...hmmmm...my money's on Mel.

agnes!

 

[User Name]

If Jesus didn't raise from the dead and wasn't God, I'd be Jewish.

As much as it pains me to say it, I think I'd be right there with you.

As a matter of fact, I sort of consider myself to be a "Jew for Jesus" kind of person. After all, He was Jewish and followed the religion. I don't quite get how modern Christianity got so far away from Jewish beliefs.

 

[JennyMominRI]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think I'd be right there with you.

As a matter of fact, I sort of consider myself to be a "Jew for Jesus" kind of person. After all, He was Jewish and followed the religion. I don't quite get how modern Christianity got so far away from Jewish beliefs.

Paul.

 

[letterdavidman]

Paul.

Exactly.

Christians shouldn't credit Jesus with the majority of their currently held beliefs, but, rather, Paul (and the Council of Trent).

 

[stevenpensacola]

From

http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Jesus_Resurrection.htm


Historical investigation, I propose, brings us to the point where we must say that the tomb previously housing a thoroughly dead Jesus was empty, and that his followers saw and met someone they were convinced was this same Jesus, bodily alive though in a new, transformed fashion. The empty tomb on the one hand and the convincing appearances of Jesus on the other are the two conclusions the historian must draw. I do not think that history can force us to draw any particular further deductions beyond these two phenomena; the conclusion the disciples drew is there for the taking, but it is open to us, as it was to them, to remain cautious. Thomas waited a week before believing what he had been told. On Matthew’s mountain, some had their doubts.

However, the elegance and simplicity of explaining the two outstanding phenomena, the empty tomb and the visions, by means of one another, ought to be obvious. Were it not for the astounding, and world-view-challenging, claim that is thereby made, I think everyone would long since have concluded that this was the correct historical result. If some other account explained the rise of Christianity as naturally, completely and satisfyingly as does the early Christians’ belief, while leaving normal worldviews intact, it would be accepted without demur.

That, I believe, is the result of the investigation I have conducted. There are many other things to say about Jesus’ resurrection. But, as far as I am concerned, the historian may and must say that all other explanations for why Christianity arose, and why it took the shape it did, are far less convincing as historical explanations than the one the early Christians themselves offer: that Jesus really did rise from the dead on Easter morning, leaving an empty tomb behind him. The origins of Christianity, the reason why this new movement came into being and took the unexpected form it did, and particularly the strange mutations it produced within the Jewish hope for resurrection and the Jewish hope for a Messiah, are best explained by saying that something happened, two or three days after Jesus’ death, for which the accounts in the four gospels are the least inadequate expression we have.

 

[stevenpensacola]

from http://www.boarsheadtavern.com/

Tomb of Jesus discovered. Christianity Proven false. (Not an Onion story.)

The tomb of Jesus has been found by…wait…..wait…..a Hollywood director. Well, sortof. Here’s the story that you’ll hear when “DVC Part II” opens Monday with a James Cameron press conference announcing that the tomb of Jesus has been discovered.

Yes, Virginia, there will be a movie on the Discovery Channel. With DNA.

Here’s another blog article. And a third. I guess that’s it then.

UPDATE: James White has the story updated on his site, and two AP stories announcing all of this in 1996. (He is dead on: it’s the DVC $$$$ cha-ching that has this out again.)

My short response:

1. The current faddish hatred for the claims of the Christian faith are an embarrassment to any serious person who buys into them. DVC madness has driven a segment of the Christianity hating world nuts.

2. DNA? Hello? Helllllllloo?

3. The testimony of the early church to the resurrection must completely be unknown to these Jethros. It’s the resurrection appearances that are the key to the Christian claim.

4. This is a relentless attempt to wrench as many minds as possible away from the Christian faith. It will work with the usual suspects. It will get Cameron and Co. on Larry King and it will fill up the Discovery Channel with more psuedo-science. It will sell a lot of bad books and make a lot of preachers mad. To the person who looks at the claims of the resurrection calmly, they will fail. As Wright says, why is this failed Messiah different? And why such a difference?

5. I wonder if Mr. Cameron might have read this book? Or this one? The wish for a “smoking gun” to disprove Jesus is telling. The fantasy is to destroy God with one fell swoop from Science and archeology. And it’s just that—a fantasy.

6. If this weren’t associated with the Mary Magdalene marriage bit, it would have slightly more credibility. That would be, about none, but still…

7. DNA?
Posted by Michael Spencer on February 24th, 2007 16:50 in Uncategorized | 0 Comments | Trackback

 

[letterdavidman]

Interesting.

http://www.thegodmovie.com/faq.php

 

[marybet]

*IF* Mr. Cameron's claims were "true", why in the world would the Apostles be willing to die for a lie and for a liar? What would make Paul renounce his life of ease & his social standing as a Citizen of Rome to join up with a ragtag bunch of heretics? IMO, the only person Mr. Cameron believes in is himself...and that's probably only when he's just gotten married to his latest wife.

Should be interesting, this 'documentary'. I'll keep my eye on this story. (Btw, I think the OP is not a new poster, it looks like they've been a DIS'er since Feb 2006?)

agnes!

In order to believe what you are saying, you have to believe in the bible, not everyone does. We don't really know if the Apostles did any of these things, or that there were Apostles. You cannot disprove what Cameron is saying by using the bible. You need a better argument.

We do know that all those people believed in Jim Jones, and drank the kool-aid, and they were wrong. So they did die for a lie and a liar. It happens. Just because you believe in something, that doesn't make it true. And by the same logic, just because I don't believe in something, that doesn't mean that it isn't true.

 

[va32h]

The film sounds interesting, and I would like to see it. I have no idea whether I will be swayed by its arguments or not. I'd have to see it first.

But I don't see why this should be a popcorn munching, pearl clutching issue. Just because James Cameron says it, doesn't make it so.

 

[snowwite]

Christianity is the teaching of Christ. Which stands alone to me. They are not depending on his rising from the dead or being the Son of God.

What? The corner stone of faith is believing that Christ died for our sins and rose to heaven with his father God. How can you say his teachings and ressurection are not related?

 

[phillybeth]

Why not DNA? If man was created in God's image, and Jesus was human, then surely he had DNA.

However, DNA tests would only say if the remains in the ossuaries were related to each other. So a woman named Miriam and a guy named Jusef had a son named Jesua, who married a woman named Miriam. Wow. Ground-breaking news in ancient Israel

 

[Amity 3]

God bless DNA.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

However, DNA tests would only say if the remains in the ossuaries were related to each other. So a woman named Miriam and a guy named Jusef had a son named Jesua, who married a woman named Miriam. Wow. Ground-breaking news in ancient Israel

Good point. It's a movie. It's entertainment, not fact. It's going to make him money and that's what Hollywood is about. The people who have never believed in God will be inclined to agree with it and the people who DO believe in God and the resurrection won't. He's not exactly doing anything ground breaking nor is he "proving" anything wrong.

 

[phillybeth]

God bless DNA.

It pays my bills!

 

[agnes!]

In order to believe what you are saying, you have to believe in the bible, not everyone does. We don't really know if the Apostles did any of these things, or that there were Apostles. You cannot disprove what Cameron is saying by using the bible. You need a better argument.

We do know that all those people believed in Jim Jones, and drank the kool-aid, and they were wrong. So they did die for a lie and a liar. It happens. Just because you believe in something, that doesn't make it true. And by the same logic, just because I don't believe in something, that doesn't mean that it isn't true.

Ok, the Jim Jones Cult. It died that day in Guyana, so far as I know there are no other groups claiming adherence to Mr. Jones, his merry band of murderers & the whole Jonestown belief system. Is that how we, the surviving members of the human race, know that he was a liar & used lies to kill all those people? Simply by the fact that his cult has ceased to exist?

You are correct, just because one doesn't believe in something doesn't automatically make that something false. (Btw, the Jim Jones cult/Jonestown reference?...probably not the least inflammatory material you could possibly have come up with.)

And actually...I feel rather sorry for James Cameron.

agnes!

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

From

http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Jesus_Resurrection.htm

I just wanted to stand up and shout when I saw someone reference NT Wright. That guy, IMO, is the most amazing biblical scholar and theologian working today. He is very scholarly, respectful of tradition and reason, insightful, and -most important -not a kook. His book The Resurrection of the Son of God is as good a work of apologetics as I recall reading in a long time. Someone mentioned Paul earlier in the thread; Wright has a fine book that gives insight into what makes Paul tick.

His work is not easy reading, but if you are interested in the heart of orthodox Christian belief, read NT Wright.

 

[Amity 3]

Good point. It's a movie. It's entertainment, not fact. It's going to make him money and that's what Hollywood is about. The people who have never believed in God will be inclined to agree with it and the people who DO believe in God and the resurrection won't. He's not exactly doing anything ground breaking nor is he "proving" anything wrong.

you're absolutely right, it's not going to prove anything or sway many beliefs.

the only good thing that came from the Titanic movie is it made Cameron so much more money he doesn't have to produce typical Hollywood entertainment movies anymore.

his life is free to follow his interests and make documentaries like this and the ones he's done on the real Titanic wreckage, he's a great filmmaker.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

James Cameron isn't the first person who doesn't believe Jesus was resurrected. I don't think it makes any difference at all.

i agree. but with all of the Christian DIS members, it's gonna cause an uproar.

honestly, i just don't get why it would make a big difference if he weren't resurrected and had a child. he still did great things.