Jan 2018 wait times longer than Summer 2017: Disney reduced ride capacity

[mshanson3121]

Here is what I witnessed a few weeks ago at the Peoplemover. There was quite a line at the bottom of the escalator, so as I stood waiting, I noticed the front half of the trains were all going out empty. Only the vehicles in the back half of the train were being loaded with people. When I got to the top, you could actually see they had set red cones in the seats of those vehicles to keep them from being used. Back in the day, there were several castmembers at that ride. That was not the case that day. There was someone at the bottom, someone loading, and someone getting people off the ride.

And this is far from the first comment like this. The reduced capacity has been going on for awhile, and there have been several first hand accounts of it on this board - of boats, rides etc... being run half full/clearly at reduced capacity.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

I can absolutely believe this. We were there in January this year and have been going in January for years. We found this January much busier than any of our past trips, however the wait for all rides was ridiculously long even with the crowds in the parks. Aside from FP's, we didn't do all that many rides. Nothing at WDW is worth waiting anything longer than 30 minutes for.

We ended up paying for 2 of the After Hours events at MK which we absolutely loved. But really, we had to pay $90 each night for what used to be free - evening extra magic hours. Three hours of almost walk on rides minus the snacks. We had only booked one night but with the insane wait times, we decided to book a second night so we could actually ride Big Thunder, Space and Mine Train without 60-120 minute waits

 

[Disney_Princess83]

And this is far from the first comment like this. The reduced capacity has been going on for awhile, and there have been several first hand accounts of it on this board - of boats, rides etc... being run half full/clearly at reduced capacity.

We saw this too! We were stunned there was any wait time for the People Mover (it's one of my favourite rides) Several times we had a 10-15 minute wait downstairs, when we got the the top, several 'carts' were sent empty and they didn't even have the 'breakdown' orange or red tarpaulin over the top. They were just being sent empty for no reason.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

IF Disney is really doing this...

a) It's pretty counterproductive. When they're stuck in line, people aren't spending in the restaurants and gift shops. And when they have a less than magical experience, you can forget about positive word of mouth and eagerness to plan a return visit.

If people are willing to wait in that line, then yes. However many times instead of getting in line for a ride of 30 minutes +, we instead went to grab a drink or fries or popcorn, or into a gift shop. I know we spent more money this trip over all. Just doing the rides is 'free' once you pay for your ticket but it costs Disney money in staff and maintenance.

 

[tlmadden73]

I do buy that it may be busier crowd wise, but I don't buy that the crowds are so intense that barnstormer should have a 50 min wait.

With my tin foil hat on....

It's no secret that WDW has fallen head over heals for these upsells.

These upsells are predicated on the notion that if one wants to accomplish anything without large crowds and long waits, then they need to "splurge".

It's hard to sell 1 hour early access for $70 bucks when the need isnt there.

It's hard to sell 3 hour late access for $100 bucks when the need isnt there.

I don't doubt at all that while crowds may be up, WDW is manipulating their wait times to some degree to encourage these "splurges"......

Oh .. I agree.

It is to Disney's ADVANTAGE to have long wait times:
- It keeps people in the parks
- It keeps people buying more days
- It gets people to spend money (restaurants and gift shops) since they are in the park longer or simply choose to not wait in lines and do something else.
- Can hire less people if not running at full capacity, etc.
And like you said .. really helps the upsell of morning and evening access, special tours, on-site hotels and now .. club level for the special extra fast passes.

It is already a known fact that they inflate posted wait times at the end of the day to discourage people getting in before the park closes (otherwise they would have people there for an hour or more), so it is not a stretch that they purposely staff lower in the "off-season" to make it feel crowded too.

It all seems pretty nefarious, and I don't think the corporation is that "evil", they are just trying to pinch every penny they can unfortunately. And we (as fans) are letting them by continuing to pay the increased prices for "less". The fact remains .. people keep coming now matter how busy it is or how long the lines in January are. They've got us on the hook, so they don't have to "try" as hard. A lot of us are used to them trying REALLY hard to get people to come (post 2001) .. .free dining, extra magic hours, towel animals on the bed, etc. etc. They simply don't need to try as hard anymore. People come anyway .. so they raise prices and lower service (I mean . .there isn't even a night parade at MK anymore!) .. and will probably continue to do so until people stop coming in droves.
I guarantee that free dining and EMH will eventually go away all together (think how much money they would save by not having all that extra staffing) in favor of these paid events.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

I’m not sure how lowering capacity saves staff. You still need people loading and running the rides regardless of how many boats or cars are on the track, and having longer lines means more people for crowd control. Also, people in line are not spending money. I would think that longer lines are due to other factors.

There was definitely less CM's working rides this trip compared to past trips. At POTC one evening, they had one side open and a single CM loading people into boats. We often saw IASW with 2 CM's maximum. People Mover had a maximum of 3 people. There was one crowd control once you entered the ride queue.

 

[mshanson3121]

I can absolutely believe this. We were there in January this year and have been going in January for years. We found this January much busier than any of our past trips, however the wait for all rides was ridiculously long even with the crowds in the parks. Aside from FP's, we didn't do all that many rides. Nothing at WDW is worth waiting anything longer than 30 minutes for.

We ended up paying for 2 of the After Hours events at MK which we absolutely loved. But really, we had to pay $90 each night for what used to be free - evening extra magic hours. Three hours of almost walk on rides minus the snacks. We had only booked one night but with the insane wait times, we decided to book a second night so we could actually ride Big Thunder, Space and Mine Train without 60-120 minute waits

If people are willing to wait in that line, then yes. However many times instead of getting in line for a ride of 30 minutes +, we instead went to grab a drink or fries or popcorn, or into a gift shop. I know we spent more money this trip over all. Just doing the rides is 'free' once you pay for your ticket but it costs Disney money in staff and maintenance.

And really, this right here, is the perfect example of why they would be doing it, and why contrary to what a couple earlier comments said, yes, it is VERY plausible this is the truth and what they're doing. Because you are just one example of why this would work. We too, would never get in a line that long, and so instead would be free to roam the park doing other things (which might include spending money).

 

[lentesta]

I think that reduced capacity prior to February 21 played a part in higher wait times in both WDW and DLR. I think the economy and hurricane-rescheduled trips also contributed equally, and our models missed those (Universal wait times were up during the same days, not as much as Disney's). Pandora is driving crowds at Animal Kingdom in a way that we haven't seen from new attractions in over a decade, and our models missed that, too.

We didn't arrive at a cause of reduced capacity until the first week of February, when we started counting riders. View the numbers below with some skepticism. Also, we focused on headliners with high capacity, so changes at attractions like Mad Tea Party wouldn't be picked up through rider counts.

Seven Dwarfs Mine Train Average Riders/Hour After 2/21: 1,443 Before 2/21: 1,103 (-24%)
Big Thunder (WDW) After 2/21: 1,570 Before: 1,232 (-22%)
Buzz Lightyear (WDW) After 2/21: 1,813 Before: 1,351 (-25%)
Space Mountain (WDW) After 2/21: 1,620 Before: 1,443 (-11%)​

Those numbers exclude obvious breakdowns, of which this week has been notable. It includes wheelchair stops, which seem to be consistent.

Rides that seem about the same: Haunted Mansion (WDW and DLR), Small World (DLR), Dinosaur, Expedition Everest, Pirates (WDW and DLR), Star Tours (WDW and DLR), Toy Story (WDW at 2/3rds capacity), Soarin' (WDW), and Jungle Cruise (DLR).

Capacities at Rock 'n' Roller Coaster and Space Mountain (DLR) haven't been consistent, and we're trying to figure out why. Splash (WDW) wasn't up enough to measure.

In the case of 7DMT, BTMRR, and Space (WDW), the reduced capacity was from running fewer ride vehicles on the track, which is fairly easy to see. For 7DMT, where people line up an hour before the park opens, it's hard to come up with a good reason ever to run the ride at less than 100% capacity. To see 3 trains running instead of 5 should raise some questions.

It's possible that those older rides (especially Space) were running at reduced capacity simply because they break down too often when run at 100% capacity for days on end. Space, Tower, and Test Track are among the most breakdown-prone in WDW. Management might look at 85% capacity all day as better than 0% capacity for an hour - the chaos from rescheduled FP+ reservations alone would probably be enough to make that decision, especially at Epcot and DHS, which have fewer headliners to spread out crowds.

Like I said, we could be wrong.

In general, wait times seem to have increased much faster than attendance for the past few years, across all of WDW.

I'm simply not buying Len's theory. In fact, I have a theory about Len's theory. We all know that book sales are not what they used to be, being we have the interweb and the information super highway. And, most of the information you pay for on his site can be found here for free (thanks disboards). This is factual. My theory is that Len's book sales are hurting and he's trying to drum up media attention to increase revenue and profits.

Income from book sales and media/interview referrals are rounding errors in the overall scheme of things - not more than 1% of revenue since the earliest days of the site. I was going to figure out whether I spend more than that at La Cava every year, and then I decided not to do that analysis.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

I may actually be better off with a red week.

I don’t think anyone knows for sure yet. Maybe. It appears that last summer and this Jan are the first time this phenomenon has been so pronounced that everyone is seeing and commenting on it. Obviously changes in capacity have been going on a long time but at a more subtle level. Disney May have now really tipped their hand.

As to whether or not a red is going to be better than a yellow ... it depends on what level triggers the to go full capacity. Once they are at full capacity, it’s going to be better to be there on the lowest CL that results in full capacity operation. Something I don’t think anyone is looking at yet. That may be the strategy of the future though. “Look for the 8 days.”

We ended up paying for 2 of the After Hours events at MK which we absolutely loved. But really, we had to pay $90 each night for what used to be free - evening extra magic hours.

And that is exactly what they are hoping for. Nefarious plan successful!!!

I really feel like they’re doing this now because of all the new lands opening. They are not afraid of losing customers. Everyone will go back one more time to see TSL or SW. They’re making the 25% profit while they can (which is insane btw - PMs at my company get bonuses for hitting 10%). They’ll worry about the people they alienate after the shiny newness wears off and they go back to offering discounts.

 

[ArielSRL]

I certainly don't disagree that they are reducing capacity during slower times (I think they've been doing this for a few years at the very least). However, I've also read several accounts of there being bigger crowds MOVING through the park. Like shoulder to shoulder in some areas and completely covered pavement in some areas. So it is plausible that Disney lowered the capacity thinking it would be a slower time (per usual) but then crowds actually were bigger, as well, which in turn had a much more adverse effect than was anticipated. I'm not an expert though, so I could be way off in my thinking.

 

[ArielSRL]

It appears that last summer and this Jan are the first time this phenomenon

This was also discussed quite a bit in 2016. However the comparison then was between Summer 2016 and October 2016. It was noted by several posters that October seemed to be busier than summer, based on resort bookings, crowds in the park, and wait times for attractions.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

And that is exactly what they are hoping for. Nefarious plan successful!!!

I really feel like they’re doing this now because of all the new lands opening. They are not afraid of losing customers. Everyone will go back one more time to see TSL or SW. They’re making the 25% profit while they can (which is insane btw - PMs at my company get bonuses for hitting 10%). They’ll worry about the people they alienate after the shiny newness wears off and they go back to offering discounts.

We were surprised how many people we met during our trip, both first timers and past visitors who said they would not be coming back or not coming back for a long time. We are AP's at WDW and we have said that we won't be back for quite sometime, we much prefer DLR and find it much more manageable. My idea of a vacation isn't waiting in long lines.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

Capacities at Rock 'n' Roller Coaster and Space Mountain (DLR) haven't been consistent, and we're trying to figure out why. Splash (WDW) wasn't up enough to measure.

That is truly pathetic. Disney needs to fix that.

 

[tlmadden73]

Reduced Capacity:

I don't think it is a huge conspiracy, I mean your local Six Flags them park reduces capacity during non peak times. Go during the week or the beginning of a season and you can easily see they run less cars (maybe a coaster that normally has two cars running only runs one ... less boats in the river rapids, some of the snack shops aren't open, etc.)

As much as we would love Disney to be running at the same capacity and staffing in January as they do in June (so a lot of rides are walk-ons), that just isn't going to happen.

Disney knows that there are less people coming through the gates so they staff less. Maybe they simply haven't adjusted to increased attendance levels and still working on past years attendance figures. But you'd think that with FP+ .. they would sorta know what the attendance at any park given park at any given day would be.

How some rides have reduced capacity though is odd though. The coasters and boat rides can have vehicles removed. But, how can something like Buzz (a continuously moving ride vehicle) have less people go through it unless there was a time it was just a walk-on?

 

[amylevan]

I certainly don't disagree that they are reducing capacity during slower times (I think they've been doing this for a few years at the very least). However, I've also read several accounts of there being bigger crowds MOVING through the park. Like shoulder to shoulder in some areas and completely covered pavement in some areas. So it is plausible that Disney lowered the capacity thinking it would be a slower time (per usual) but then crowds actually were bigger, as well, which in turn had a much more adverse effect than was anticipated. I'm not an expert though, so I could be way off in my thinking.

But with the magicband system, there is no reason to miss projections on crowds that bad. People are making their FP+ reservations weeks in advance. They know how many people are planning to be in which park. It's more like they were testing everyone's limits on wait times. And they hit ours; and worse than that, my DH is not a Disney fan. He has gone with us before because we go low crowd times and I use touring plans to avoid waits. They ruined him this trip. I may never get him back, and since I prefer to vacation as a family, I'm not sure when I'll get to be back myself.

In the case of 7DMT, BTMRR, and Space (WDW), the reduced capacity was from running fewer ride vehicles on the track, which is fairly easy to see. For 7DMT, where people line up an hour before the park opens, it's hard to come up with a good reason ever to run the ride at less than 100% capacity. To see 3 trains running instead of 5 should raise some questions.

This!

Income from book sales and media/interview referrals are rounding errors in the overall scheme of things - not more than 1% of revenue since the earliest days of the site. I was going to figure out whether I spend more than that at La Cava every year, and then I decided not to do that analysis.

 

[amylevan]

How some rides have reduced capacity though is odd though. The coasters and boat rides can have vehicles removed. But, how can something like Buzz (a continuously moving ride vehicle) have less people go through it unless there was a time it was just a walk-on?

My understanding is that omnimovers have speeds - they can slow down or speed up how fast the vehicles are moving.

 

[tlmadden73]

This was also discussed quite a bit in 2016. However the comparison then was between Summer 2016 and October 2016. It was noted by several posters that October seemed to be busier than summer, based on resort bookings, crowds in the park, and wait times for attractions.

Pete has been saying it on the podcast for a bit --- based on the huge number of discounts they offered last summer (room discounts, free QS dining, etc.), it appears that the summer is no longer as popular as other times.

Of all the times I've gone in the past 7 years ... October was probably the busiest I've seen.

I mean . .why do a lot of us on the boards NOT go in the summer?
- We hear it is too crowded
- We think it is too hot and humid
- There is nothing "special" going on (Christmas, Halloween, Epcot festivals, marathons, etc.)

 

[Disney_Princess83]

My understanding is that omnimovers have speeds - they can slow down or speed up how fast the vehicles are moving.

We also found some of the rides went longer or shorter on different days. The Tea Cups were a prime example. Certain days the ride went for just over a minute, other days it was closer to two minutes (we timed it to ensure we weren't going crazy)

 

[zillayen]

We were surprised how many people we met during our trip, both first timers and past visitors who said they would not be coming back or not coming back for a long time. We are AP's at WDW and we have said that we won't be back for quite sometime, we much prefer DLR and find it much more manageable. My idea of a vacation isn't waiting in long lines.

This. Chatting with at least 3 families either at the parks or at the YC pool, they were all first timers who said they hadn't really enjoyed the trip and wouldn't be back. They brought their kids to WDW and were "one and done." And these were all people who were staying at a Deluxe resort, spending $$ for the nicest Disney has to offer. And the crowds weren't bad that week and there weren't major ride closures! I was really surprised.

 

[mshanson3121]

How some rides have reduced capacity though is odd though. The coasters and boat rides can have vehicles removed. But, how can something like Buzz (a continuously moving ride vehicle) have less people go through it unless there was a time it was just a walk-on?

I've seen comments on here for at least a year, that people are seeing cars, boats etc... being sent out not filled to capacity. It's pretty easy - if the car sits 4, you put 2 in.

This. Chatting with at least 3 families either at the parks or at the YC pool, they were all first timers who said they hadn't really enjoyed the trip and wouldn't be back. They brought their kids to WDW and were "one and done." And these were all people who were staying at a Deluxe resort, spending $$ for the nicest Disney has to offer. And the crowds weren't bad that week and there weren't major ride closures! I was really surprised.

This is really sad. And really worries me, considering 1 of the members of our November trip is a newbie, and I am increasingly worrying about her feeling like it was a waste of money. Of course, to be honest, I'm worried that I am going to feel like it was a waste of money. It would appear that there have been a lot of negative changes since June 2015, and I won't lie - it worries me. I'm really not going to be happy if I spend $2000 out of our really tight budget, to encounter numerous break downs and long lines, especially considering I will have only 1 day at Magic Kingdom.