Jan 2018 wait times longer than Summer 2017: Disney reduced ride capacity

[FortForever]

Yeah... you are wrong. Sorry.

That's a possibility. No reason to be sorry, I've been wrong plenty of times in my life and lived through it.

 

[tlmadden73]

These are kind of the same thing. Basically like telling a lie vs withholding the truth.

I'm also not impressed with anything they have done lately. Mine Train, with all it's hype, is honestly mediocre. Splash Mountain is the closest comparison and knocks Mine Train out of the park.

I sorta agree .. as an adult. Mine Train was short and underwhelming (and doesn't tell a story like Splash Mountain) and Soaring definitely is not as good as it was (personally don't like the CGI .. lose the immersion because it is noticeably fake).

But WDW is mainly for kids.

As a kid, I think Mine Train is a more thrilling ride than the old Snow White dark ride. My son loved it (in a thrilling way). Soaring is just as amazing to make you feel like you are flying over the world. My kids would definitely find Frozen more exciting than the old Norway ride. I personally am excited to go see Pandora and Toy Story Land later this year .. and while Toy story Land may be less than impressive to adult me -- I suspect my kids will love it a ton (giving DHS way more for them to do there in addition to the existing and upcoming Star Wars stuff). I even plan (as a non-resident) taking the plunge with an AP to come back 11 months later in fall of 2019 to see Star Wars Land, the new gondola system.

It's an exciting time after years of nothing new (and just closing old attractions) to have some major attractions every year now.

Universal (with it's Harry Potter worlds) put the pressure on Disney and that is why we are getting an "immersive" Star Wars and Toy Story Land and Pandora. I suspect that will be the future for a lot of new attractions. I hope to see another immersive world at WDW in the future. If it wasn't for that Marvel contract, Disney probably would be making an Avengers land in WDW somewhere too.

 

[whiporee]

Actually, I love the old stuff at the parks. Just not a fan of the newer stuff and the missing quality and thought that used to be put into everything they did.

Regardless, no need to obnoxious about it. I have no problems with people not sharing my opinions. But, facts are facts about the crowd staging.

You dropped in and said everything sucks and you were going other places in the future. I said that was a great idea -- and I think it is. If you don't enjoy it, you should go to other places. Didn't mean to be obnoxious.

Okay, maybe I meant it a little Sorry, but the everything sucks stuff gets as old as the WDW can do no wrong, and this thread has been filled with it regardless of what the data actually showed. The crowd staging isn't a fact. It's a supposition put out there by someone who has a financial interest in presenting it. It also said 5 percent capacity reduction during the week -- not Friday through Sunday. It may be happening, but that little bit of unsupported (if accurate) data has been extrapolated to condemn WDW far beyond what the actual facts showed.

 

[FortForever]

I sorta agree .. as an adult. Mine Train was short and underwhelming (and doesn't tell a story like Splash Mountain) and Soaring definitely is not as good as it was (personally don't like the CGI .. lose the immersion because it is noticeably fake).

But WDW is mainly for kids.

Yep, my grandchildren are still impressed. I'll continue to use our passes this year, but honestly can't say I will continue after that. I can overlook every single thing on my list except the thing this thread is about - crowd staging. We'll just have to wait and see where things go with that.

 

[dlavender]

Ok, we are back!

One glaring example we saw of the cut in capacity was at Speedway yesterday morning at 10AM. They were running only one side with a 60 min standby.

We had FP, and waited about 10 mins. While waiting, I "grilled" the CM at the FP merge. I asked why in the world they would be running one side with a 60 min wait on such a busy day (I asked in a super nice way, kind of joking)

She said she's been told that they are trying to make waits consistent. She also says that they are asked all the time why only half of the ride is open.

Sure enough, we walked back by around 7PM, and the wait was 60 mins with both sides open.

Not sure what the point of having waits always at 60 minutes would be....

Unless its to solidify the FP value at all times.

But consistent may mean "less labor" to WDW, and just a simple answer they can give to the CM's when asked.

But its crazy to me that they would want people at 10AM to wait so long when they could just open up the other side. As noted above, people are paying a ton during Spring Break to visit.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

Not sure what the point of having waits always at 60 minutes would be....

Tormenting guests for fun and profit.

Ugh. An hour long wait at the speedway at 10 am is not fun. I’m sure Igor ... er, Iger would somehow try to spin that to be better for the customer (you always know that no matter what time of the year, month, day or hour you go, you will always have the same long wait).

*sign* Very depressing.

 

[mom2rtk]

Ok, we are back!

One glaring example we saw of the cut in capacity was at Speedway yesterday morning at 10AM. They were running only one side with a 60 min standby.

We had FP, and waited about 10 mins. While waiting, I "grilled" the CM at the FP merge. I asked why in the world they would be running one side with a 60 min wait on such a busy day (I asked in a super nice way, kind of joking)

She said she's been told that they are trying to make waits consistent. She also says that they are asked all the time why only half of the ride is open.

Sure enough, we walked back by around 7PM, and the wait was 60 mins with both sides open.

Not sure what the point of having waits always at 60 minutes would be....

Unless its to solidify the FP value at all times.

But consistent may mean "less labor" to WDW, and just a simple answer they can give to the CM's when asked.

But its crazy to me that they would want people at 10AM to wait so long when they could just open up the other side. As noted above, people are paying a ton during Spring Break to visit.

Tell me the other side is down. Tell me someone called in sick. Tell me you were surprised with larger than expected crowds (even if it's a lie). Just don't tell me Disney is OK with a 60 minute line and is keeping it that way arbitrarily. UGH.

 

[tlmadden73]

She said she's been told that they are trying to make waits consistent. She also says that they are asked all the time why only half of the ride is open.

.

I don't like long wait times just as much as the next person, but I guess I look at this issue from a business perspective.

I guess it is just a staffing thing. Just like any service business. Restaurants staff based on "expected" crowd levels .. so they are staffed more at dinner time than they are at 10:00 AM. Go to Target on a Saturday afternoon and there are more staff to man check out lanes than at 10:55 PM on a Wednesday. Which means you may have to actually wait longer to check out on a weekday night than a Saturday afternoon because the one and only check out-line is packed.
Both restaurants and department stores purposely reduce capacity at times when they THINK crowds will be lower. And sometimes they guess wrong.

Same here I would think.

Really though .. what do we expect? Disney to be 100% fully staffed (like it is during peak times) every hour the park is open, every day of the week? I mean, obviously any fan would love that, but no service business does that .. it doesn't make financial sense.

The "we've been told to keep wait times consistent" is troubling though. I have no doubt that Disney is "penny pinching" and have lower staffing levels than they probably should. If the Speedway HAD the staff and ability to open a second track and simply didn't .. that just seems odd. They have to have some logic at keeping people in lines. I guess to spread out the crowds to prevent longer lines at other attractions.

There is some magic number of reducing the number of guests in the parks and appropriate staffing levels to make every ride a short wait. We just don't know what that is.

 

[dlavender]

I don't like long wait times just as much as the next person, but I guess I look at this issue from a business perspective.

I guess it is just a staffing thing. Just like any service business. Restaurants staff based on "expected" crowd levels .. so they are staffed more at dinner time than they are at 10:00 AM. Go to Target on a Saturday afternoon and there are more staff to man check out lanes than at 10:55 PM on a Wednesday. Which means you may have to actually wait longer to check out on a weekday night than a Saturday afternoon because the one and only check out-line is packed.
Both restaurants and department stores purposely reduce capacity at times when they THINK crowds will be lower. And sometimes they guess wrong.

Same here I would think.

Really though .. what do we expect? Disney to be 100% fully staffed (like it is during peak times) every hour the park is open, every day of the week? I mean, obviously any fan would love that, but no service business does that .. it doesn't make financial sense.

The "we've been told to keep wait times consistent" is troubling though. I have no doubt that Disney is "penny pinching" and have lower staffing levels than they probably should. If the Speedway HAD the staff and ability to open a second track and simply didn't .. that just seems odd. They have to have some logic at keeping people in lines. I guess to spread out the crowds to prevent longer lines at other attractions.

There is some magic number of reducing the number of guests in the parks and appropriate staffing levels to make every ride a short wait. We just don't know what that is.

The main difference in the Target analogy is that Target I'm sure has a daily/hourly sales breakdown, and staff accordingly. If there's an influx of people out of the norm, you would wait longer on a Wednesday with just 1 register open. But it's due to that random influx.

On the first weekend of Spring Break, how could WDW be caught off guard? We made these trip plans on Friday at 10 AM for that night. According to hotels.com, the weekend was 92% booked, and for our family of 5, we had the option of only 6 hotels in a 10 mile radius of WDW. There were only 2 WDW hotels that had occupancy for the weekend. Only FP's that were available were Speeday, HM, Dumbo, and the one night SM one we got after I refreshed a few times. They knew it was going to be busy. We knew it was going to be busy. I know they want to hold onto that 25% profit margin, but at some point you have to look into the future. (Ironic that we are talking about an attraction in Tomorrowland). I don't get how they could really want people who might be paying $4k for the week to be sitting in a 60 minute line when they have the ability to make that wait 30. I know they can't help it when they are going 100% and the wait is that. But while it's not, throw someone a bone for $4k!

 

[mom2rtk]

The main difference in the Target analogy is that Target I'm sure has a daily/hourly sales breakdown, and staff accordingly. If there's an influx of people out of the norm, you would wait longer on a Wednesday with just 1 register open. But it's due to that random influx.

On the first weekend of Spring Break, how could WDW be caught off guard? We made these trip plans on Friday at 10 AM for that night. According to hotels.com, the weekend was 92% booked, and for our family of 5, we had the option of only 6 hotels in a 10 mile radius of WDW. There were only 2 WDW hotels that had occupancy for the weekend. Only FP's that were available were Speeday, HM, Dumbo, and the one night SM one we got after I refreshed a few times. They knew it was going to be busy. We knew it was going to be busy. I know they want to hold onto that 25% profit margin, but at some point you have to look into the future. (Ironic that we are talking about an attraction in Tomorrowland). I don't get how they could really want people who might be paying $4k for the week to be sitting in a 60 minute line when they have the ability to make that wait 30. I know they can't help it when they are going 100% and the wait is that. But while it's not, throw someone a bone for $4k!

Yep. Plus people don't book times to check out at Target 60 days in advance.

 

[tlmadden73]

The main difference in the Target analogy is that Target I'm sure has a daily/hourly sales breakdown, and staff accordingly. If there's an influx of people out of the norm, you would wait longer on a Wednesday with just 1 register open. But it's due to that random influx.

On the first weekend of Spring Break, how could WDW be caught off guard? We made these trip plans on Friday at 10 AM for that night. According to hotels.com, the weekend was 92% booked, and for our family of 5, we had the option of only 6 hotels in a 10 mile radius of WDW. There were only 2 WDW hotels that had occupancy for the weekend. Only FP's that were available were Speeday, HM, Dumbo, and the one night SM one we got after I refreshed a few times. They knew it was going to be busy. We knew it was going to be busy. I know they want to hold onto that 25% profit margin, but at some point you have to look into the future. (Ironic that we are talking about an attraction in Tomorrowland). I don't get how they could really want people who might be paying $4k for the week to be sitting in a 60 minute line when they have the ability to make that wait 30. I know they can't help it when they are going 100% and the wait is that. But while it's not, throw someone a bone for $4k!

True . .I was just playing the Devil's Advocate.

I agree .. Disney (unlike Target) has a WAY better way of knowing how busy they SHOULD be. Hotels are one thing, but like others have said .. Disney should know crowd levels weeks in advance just from the FP system alone. Sure . .not everyone makes Fast Passes in advance, but I would probably guess a vast majority do. If X people have reserved fast passes for this day at the magic kingdom .. odds are that they can expect exactly that many people (and more) to go through the turnstiles .. so how could they NOT staff accordingly.

True .. it does seem "odd" the speedway was not running both tracks at 10:00 AM at the beginning of Spring Break Season.
I do remember getting on the Speedway during a morning EMH in late August 2015 and they had both tracks running. If any time to run a ride at less capacity, you'd think during an EMH would be it.

Eventually, you'd think, complaints about wait times will catch up with them. Some manager somewhere who thought it would be a good idea to cut staffing by X% probably will get a rude awakening when the complaints come pouring in for the first few months of this year. And that's our only recourse. Don't go at all .. or complain when we do. Eventually there will be a tipping point where people don't feel the cost is worth the wait and shift their trips to that "other" theme park down the road.

Who knows . .maybe everyone is right .. and Disney is playing a long con here. Make wait times crazy long, so they can charge more in the form of ticket prices and special events and maybe eventually .. some sort of extra "paid" Fast Pass system. (Resort guests can get a 4th fast pass a day for only $100/person for the length of your stay).

 

[dlavender]

True . .I was just playing the Devil's Advocate.

I agree .. Disney (unlike Target) has a WAY better way of knowing how busy they SHOULD be. Hotels are one thing, but like others have said .. Disney should know crowd levels weeks in advance just from the FP system alone. Sure . .not everyone makes Fast Passes in advance, but I would probably guess a vast majority do. If X people have reserved fast passes for this day at the magic kingdom .. odds are that they can expect exactly that many people (and more) to go through the turnstiles .. so how could they NOT staff accordingly.

True .. it does seem "odd" the speedway was not running both tracks at 10:00 AM at the beginning of Spring Break Season.
I do remember getting on the Speedway during a morning EMH in late August 2015 and they had both tracks running. If any time to run a ride at less capacity, you'd think during an EMH would be it.

Eventually, you'd think, complaints about wait times will catch up with them. Some manager somewhere who thought it would be a good idea to cut staffing by X% probably will get a rude awakening when the complaints come pouring in for the first few months of this year. And that's our only recourse. Don't go at all .. or complain when we do. Eventually there will be a tipping point where people don't feel the cost is worth the wait and shift their trips to that "other" theme park down the road.

Who knows . .maybe everyone is right .. and Disney is playing a long con here. Make wait times crazy long, so they can charge more in the form of ticket prices and special events and maybe eventually .. some sort of extra "paid" Fast Pass system. (Resort guests can get a 4th fast pass a day for only $100/person for the length of your stay).

I think they are banking on the fact that most people will not really complain. I mean it's WDW, it's busy!

I did send Guest relations an email with the pictures of the half operating Speedway and the 60 min posted wait. I'm sure I'll get some canned response, but I want it out there....

 

[mshanson3121]

Who knows . .maybe everyone is right .. and Disney is playing a long con here. Make wait times crazy long, so they can charge more in the form of ticket prices and special events and maybe eventually .. some sort of extra "paid" Fast Pass system. (Resort guests can get a 4th fast pass a day for only $100/person for the length of your stay).

This is what I largely suspect is going on. Look at all the extra magic hours they have taken away, and instead you now have a "paid" morning/evening event. Essentially the exact same thing you used to get for free. You used to be able to use a Fast Pass to get better seating at the parades and fireworks - now you have to pay for a mediocre dessert party to get what used to be free. They are monetizing everything possible, and cutting back on what you get. "Now at Disney, you get to clean your room and as a thank you, we'll give you a $25 gift card!"

I think why it works for them is because people who have never been before don't know any different. I definitely think that paid FP+ are in the near future, and I suspect it will be similar to Universal's platform: pay $100 per day, for unlimited "front of the line" access to specific attractions. Or, stay at their most expensive resort, and get it for free. I can see the pricing for this being tiered, much like the tickets are going to be, in the sense that the FP+ will cost more during peak season and less during value etc...

 

[dlavender]

This was posted on another site by @lentesta . It's a great visual. He states: "As of late 2017, wait times were up 20% to 60% from 2014/2015. There is zero chance - none at all - that attendance is up that much. " Pretty telling. Thanks @lentesta for the great info.

 

[tlmadden73]

This is what I largely suspect is going on. Look at all the extra magic hours they have taken away, and instead you now have a "paid" morning/evening event. Essentially the exact same thing you used to get for free. You used to be able to use a Fast Pass to get better seating at the parades and fireworks - now you have to pay for a mediocre dessert party to get what used to be free. They are monetizing everything possible, and cutting back on what you get. "Now at Disney, you get to clean your room and as a thank you, we'll give you a $25 gift card!"

I think why it works for them is because people who have never been before don't know any different. I definitely think that paid FP+ are in the near future, and I suspect it will be similar to Universal's platform: pay $100 per day, for unlimited "front of the line" access to specific attractions. Or, stay at their most expensive resort, and get it for free. I can see the pricing for this being tiered, much like the tickets are going to be, in the sense that the FP+ will cost more during peak season and less during value etc...

I agree that the writing is on the wall that EMH is going to go away. A slow bleed is better PR than simply announcing "it is going away in 6 months."
The morning/evening events seem to be popular (mainly because people are willing to pay for a very LIMITED attendance) ... so Disney would be silly to give away something that people are now willing to pay for. I mean .. I would be tempted to try them.

I am surprised they haven't done a "Early Morning Magic" at every park ... seems like it would be a huge seller at AK if it included Flight of Passage.

Also .. I think the writing is on the wall for free dining going away (or at least pile on even more restrictions to make it just not worth it like it used to). It's not like Disney needs to encourage people to come in the fall now.

It's all about supply/demand.

I just wonder when the tipping point will occur when the guests are like are just disgusted by the high cost of tickets and then all the extra "experiences" they feel they are missing out on unless they shell out even more money. Personally I don't think it will happen though. Disney is more popular than ever thanks to parents who born in the 70s/80s/90s .. now wanting to take their kids to WDW like they did as kids. Video blogs (and sites like these) make Disney always in the fore front. And Disney's acquisition of brands like Marvel and Star Wars have broaden its popularity as well.

The fans have given Disney a blank check and they are using it.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I agree that the writing is on the wall that EMH is going to go away. A slow bleed is better PR than simply announcing "it is going away in 6 months.".

I disagree.

EMH is still one of the main incentives folks have for staying onsite.

Unless they are going to give onsite guests different incentives, like giving them increased FP access.

 

[dlavender]

I agree that the writing is on the wall that EMH is going to go away. A slow bleed is better PR than simply announcing "it is going away in 6 months."
The morning/evening events seem to be popular (mainly because people are willing to pay for a very LIMITED attendance) ... so Disney would be silly to give away something that people are now willing to pay for. I mean .. I would be tempted to try them.

I am surprised they haven't done a "Early Morning Magic" at every park ... seems like it would be a huge seller at AK if it included Flight of Passage.

Also .. I think the writing is on the wall for free dining going away (or at least pile on even more restrictions to make it just not worth it like it used to). It's not like Disney needs to encourage people to come in the fall now.

It's all about supply/demand.

I just wonder when the tipping point will occur when the guests are like are just disgusted by the high cost of tickets and then all the extra "experiences" they feel they are missing out on unless they shell out even more money. Personally I don't think it will happen though. Disney is more popular than ever thanks to parents who born in the 70s/80s/90s .. now wanting to take their kids to WDW like they did as kids. Video blogs (and sites like these) make Disney always in the fore front. And Disney's acquisition of brands like Marvel and Star Wars have broaden its popularity as well.

The fans have given Disney a blank check and they are using it.

And I have to raise my hand as guilty.

Complained last year, and still bought the APs. Almost even paid for the early morning magic yesterday. But then came to my senses. At least on the last part.

 

[dlavender]

I disagree.

EMH is still one of the main incentives folks have for staying onsite.

Unless they are going to give onsite guests different incentives, like giving them increased FP access.

I’m not sure on that.

We stayed at a Disney springs hotel and had access to EMH. The hotel was less than any on site moderate for the dates.

I think their research and data is telling them that on site guests don’t rate EMH as a main factor anymore. At least that’s my guess.

 

[mshanson3121]

EMH is still one of the main incentives folks have for staying onsite.

Is it really though? I mean there are many people on here that don't use it. We didn't use it.

 

[tlmadden73]

I disagree.

EMH is still one of the main incentives folks have for staying onsite.

Unless they are going to give onsite guests different incentives, like giving them increased FP access.

Oh .. I think they would replace. it.

And I would argue that EMH is a "main incentive" to stay onsite. I am just one person, but it never factors into my decision. It's a nice "extra" perk to have, that I use if it lines up, but I don't go into thinking I want EMH, so I better stay onsite this trip. What I miss when I stay offsite is the 60 day Fast passes, free parking, free transportation, free magic bands, (and using them to charge back purchases) and just being "closer" to the parks.

What percentage of guests you think take advantage of EMH? The morning ones may be too early for a lot of guests, the night ones too light for guests with little kids and the they may just not align to your planned park days.

If Disney wants to cut costs, NOT opening an park for extra hours is a great way to do it.

I would gladly sacrifice EMH for some sort of extra Fast Pass perk:
For example:
"Resort guests may schedule 2 Fast Passes a day and get 1 "anytime" fast pass per day" (Basically getting 1 flexible fast pass per day).