It was unrealistic not to expect DVC to do something about resales

[Mikamarii]

If more people would actually act like the sky was falling and make Disney accountable then they would think twice before making these changes. As it is, you are just giving them permission to do even more.

They make these changes and announce them all at the same time so you literally have no idea what to process first. The reaction here is oh no! This is bad! Within a day, though people are already rationalizing how to buy even more. I’m sure the Disney suits are slapping high fives.

So if people are still buying then is the change that bad? Again, I'd rather not make drastic statements of doom and gloom until there are actual facts to support it.

Reunion station is a good example. People never went. It lost money, they shut it down. This is an example of facts supporting opinion. Right now, on this topic, all we have is opinion.

 

[tgropp]

I know people are mad, and I get why -- but from the company's point of view, continuing to downgrade the value of resale points seems like it was the only way forward for DVC.

People can't expect to spend a portion of the price and get all of the benefits while Disney tries to compete with new properties. Especially now, in a booming economy, exploding park attendance, and Star Wars knocking on the door.

I have a lot of issues with other things they've done -- like the 2020 point charts -- but the truth is for many years Disney was very generous when it came to resales by not differentiating between direct and resales. People frequently came on these boards to say only suckers bought direct, etc.

Things will almost certainly reset down the road if the economy his a recession. But for know, what Disney with the Riveria makes corporate sense. And if they find they can't sell Riveria because of the resale market, then they'll have to deal with that.

Seriously. Disney made their money in their first direct sale. They are making money from the people who purchase the deed, whether it's the first, second or third resale. It sounds like the government when they sell a vehicle and get their taxes and then want more taxes on the resale and so on. We all know what we think of the goverments greed. I'm beginning to think the same way of Disneys greed.

 

[Jelly563]

I definitely have the cooties..... because we bought VGF points and we often use them at OKW because my wife loves the beachy feel there.

 

[jodifla]

If more people would actually act like the sky was falling and make Disney accountable then they would think twice before making these changes. As it is, you are just giving them permission to do even more.

They make these changes and announce them all at the same time so you literally have no idea what to process first. The reaction here is oh no! This is bad! Within a day, though people are already rationalizing how to buy even more. I’m sure the Disney suits are slapping high fives.

People have definitely fought back about some things: Remember the switch to plastic cups in the studios? They had blistering negative feedback about that.

But nothing has happened to me and my points yet. It's too soon to tell how it will be going forward.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

So if people are still buying then is the change that bad?

Lol, people are still buying because apparently “it’s Disney!” is a good enough justification. Doesn’t matter what Disney does, they can upcharge you, pack their parks, reduce their perks do WHATEVER and people will happily open their wallets and get less. The changes are bad and people don’t care... that doesn’t make the changes automatically good, it makes the people way too psychologically attached to this thing that doesn’t exist called Disney Magic.

 

[jodifla]

Lol, people are still buying because apparently “it’s Disney!” is a good enough justification. Doesn’t matter what Disney does, they can upcharge you, pack their parks, reduce their perks do WHATEVER and people will happily open their wallets and get less. The changes are bad and people don’t care... that doesn’t make the changes automatically good, it makes the people way too psychologically attached to this thing that doesn’t exist called Disney Magic.

I don't think anyone said it was "automatically good." It just is Disney's prerogative to change the rules for new properties. It was pretty sweet to have all those new properties and opportunities to stay there. As I said, I never imagined DVC would expand the way it did after we bought.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

I don't think anyone said it was "automatically good." It just is Disney's prerogative to change the rules for new properties. It was pretty sweet to have all those new properties and opportunities to stay there. As I said, I never imagined DVC would expand the way it did after we bought.

I’m not just referring to DVC but to everything around it.

When I bought DVC in 2008 it made sense. I cannot imagine ever justifying buying in now. And I’m glad I sold because I’ve slowly and steadily grown disenchanted with the entire Disney vacation experience for years now. The golden age was the mid-90s and those days are long gone.

 

[js]

I definitely have the cooties..... because we bought VGF points and we often use them at OKW because my wife loves the beachy feel there.

I certainly dont think you have cooties, but you certainly spent a lot per point vs those that purchased OKW and your nights “cost” more since you paid more for points but that is the beauty of why we own we all have options.

 

[keishashadow]

Yep, we took the old "buy where you want to stay" route and are now stuck at BCV, BWV, VWL and BLT.

I subscribe to that route too. However, both point reallocations (going back to when the weekends were increased) and the recent ‘funny business’ as to being able to book/walk AKVJ value studios, have thrown monkey wrenches into my carefully laid plans.

We’ve added on in the past to get back up to running speed in order to fund our expanding standard trips. When we find ourselves short in the future, not about to do it again. Likely, will just take our travel $ elsewhere when our point allocation runs out for the UY.

Yup only I had no SSR points and actually used my BCV points for that trip LOL!

My personal observation is that that SSR members were making it far more difficult to book a studio at ‘my’ resorts for a spur of the moment trip, after the 7 month window opened. Double edged sword of sorts, I had taken to relying upon it for being able to easily find room at the inn there even a few months prior to arrival. Worked well even for trips starting the week after Thanksgiving and the first two in December when all else was booked. Since they have now have pref room there, stand seems to be a thing of the past for dates i’ve checked.

 

[Madame]

I subscribe to that route too. However, both point reallocations (going back to when the weekends were increased) and the recent ‘funny business’ as to being able to book/walk AKVJ value studios, have thrown monkey wrenches into my carefully laid plans.

We’ve added on in the past to get back up to running speed in order to fund our expanding standard trips. When we find ourselves short in the future, not about to do it again. Likely, will just take our travel $ elsewhere when our point allocation runs out for the UY.



My personal observation is that that SSR members were making it far more difficult to book a studio at ‘my’ resorts for a spur of the moment trip, after the 7 month window opened. Double edged sword of sorts, I had taken to relying upon it for being able to easily find room at the inn there even a few months prior to arrival. Worked well even for trips starting the week after Thanksgiving and the first two in December when all else was booked. Since they have now have pref room there, stand seems to be a thing of the past for dates i’ve checked.

Definitely. We took preferred SSR with those BCV points after NYE. I’d say 90% of members are choosing getting more bang for their buck over view or larger rooms. This is especially true of newer direct members with smaller contracts.

We booked a 3 way split AKV/SSR/VWL with BCV points, but have two 2 night stays in Feb & Aug at VGF on SSR points. For me it all evens out & we like all the DVC locations we’ve stayed at so far.

 

[stitchloversith]

IMHO DVC has been devalued for a long time now. When we first bought DVC in 2004, we could walk up to the front desk at a resort and find availability to stay there. We could pre-book just a few weeks out and get a preferred location at SSR with no issues. If we were 100% sure of what our plans were, we could book our preferred location 1bd at SSR at the 11-month window. Slowly the system changed and so did our ownership. We wanted guaranteed availability at AKL-Jambo so we bought a contract there, the same with Kidani. We wanted guaranteed availability at Aulani so we bought there. The less than 7-month SSR rooms started drying up and we moved to Hawaii. So we sold our SSR contract to a nice family through resale. Fast forward to today, I have problems booking AKL before the 7-month window. I found out dates on something at 9-months and had to waitlist/ stalk to be able to get a reservation. Aulani is not as much a problem because when we book there it is a bank and borrow situation. Are these new resale restrictions going to change what value I have in the contracts, no. Has the availability of inventory changed in such a way that I can't take the vacations that I would like, yes it has. I am about to start law school in the fall, I will not know my vacation opportunities until about four weeks out from starting school. Unless I can find an SSR 1bd or something similar in the book next 60 days area of the DVC site, my Disney Vacations will come to a full stop. I say SSR because there is 0% chance of our preferred resort AKL having availability within the 7-month window. It is my opinion that Disney oversold many of the resorts and this change for resale owners is a way to fix the issue, but I also think it will fail miserably at this.

Some of the 'perks' coming back would help me change the value in my mind. I like the AP but since I can only go on breaks getting the AP that has no blackouts is beyond cost prohibitive right now(for me). There was a buy three days, get one day a few years ago, this I could swing. While I make plans to bank my points and maybe use them for a cruise between 2L and 3L years I am not sure of my vacation strategy. I have one reservation in the pike, I traded AKL and Aulani points for a 1bd Theme Park view at BLT for my Undergrad Graduation Trip at 7-months. I had the original 2bd Savanah View booked at the 11-month window because I knew last spring when Graduation day would be.

 

[AdamsMum]

You missed the point. The point of ROFR is to protect them, not you or I. Now at times it may support resale prices which is likely why they feel the need to make other changes as well.

I agree with you. ROFR keeping resale prices in line, protects DVD's ability to sell new resorts at ever increasing prices. I'm certain the sales people don't mention resale, but if asked they would point out that it's not that much cheaper, but look at all the perks you get with direct. Most new buyers have probably not done the research about the actual value of the perks.

 

[Bearval]

I agree with you. ROFR keeping resale prices in line, protects DVD's ability to sell new resorts at ever increasing prices. I'm certain the sales people don't mention resale, but if asked they would point out that it's not that much cheaper, but look at all the perks you get with direct. Most new buyers have probably not done the research about the actual value of the perks.

Look at it this way, you build a gourmet hotdog restaurant and attracted a lot of customers for your product. Suddenly someone else rolls up next to you with a dirty water dog hotdog cart and begins to sell the same hotdogs as you but for only 60% of your price. You begin to loose potential sales and you sit back an think to yourself, I built the business, spent the time and money to get the customers now someone rolls up with a hotdog cart not having the same initial investment as me and is profiting off all my hard work. What would you do? DVD has decided that you can still get those dirty water dogs but all you can get with it is ketchup and mustard, no more relish, onions, chili or cheese for you unless you buy from me. Trust me, I don't like what they are doing but I can understand the mindset.

 

[Marionnette]

Look at it this way, you build a gourmet hotdog restaurant and attracted a lot of customers for your product. Suddenly someone else rolls up next to you with a dirty water dog hotdog cart and begins to sell the same hotdogs as you but for only 60% of your price. You begin to loose potential sales and you sit back an think to yourself, I built the business, spent the time and money to get the customers now someone rolls up with a hotdog cart not having the same initial investment as me and is profiting off all my hard work. What would you do? DVD has decided that you can still get those dirty water dogs but all you can get with it is ketchup and mustard, no more relish, onions, chili or cheese for you. Trust me, I don't like what they are doing but I can understand the mindset.

I look at t more like "You can buy your hot dog from someone else but you can only eat part of it. If you want to be able to eat the whole thing, you have to pay a premium."

I would much rather have seen a carrot approach, as opposed to this stick. Bludgeoning the resale buyers is not going to drive a lot of them to purchase direct for 50%-70% more. Making direct more attractive would make a difference. The major reason that people don't buy direct is that the tremendous cost difference is not offset by enough perks. Even restricting resale buyers to booking at the Legacy 14 is not going convince a lot of people that they need to spend large sums of money to be able to book DVC II resorts. Many will be quite content to book their home resort at 11 months and roll the dice on booking elsewhere at 7.

 

[Bearval]

I look at t more like "You can buy your hot dog from someone else but you can only eat part of it. If you want to be able to eat the whole thing, you have to pay a premium."

I would much rather have seen a carrot approach, as opposed to this stick. Bludgeoning the resale buyers is not going to drive a lot of them to purchase direct for 50%-70% more. Making direct more attractive would make a difference. The major reason that people don't buy direct is that the tremendous cost difference is not offset by enough perks. Even restricting resale buyers to booking at the Legacy 14 is not going convince a lot of people that they need to spend large sums of money to be able to book DVC II resorts. Many will be quite content to book their home resort at 11 months and roll the dice on booking elsewhere at 7.

They just did make buying direct more attractive starting with Riviera, you can stay at any resort you want if you buy direct. Not saying I like it but it is what it is. And you can eat your whole hotdog, just not inside of my restaurant.

 

[Ben E N]

Look at it this way, you build a gourmet hotdog restaurant and attracted a lot of customers for your product. Suddenly someone else rolls up next to you with a dirty water dog hotdog cart and begins to sell the same hotdogs as you but for only 60% of your price. You begin to loose potential sales and you sit back an think to yourself, I built the business, spent the time and money to get the customers now someone rolls up with a hotdog cart not having the same initial investment as me and is profiting off all my hard work. What would you do? DVD has decided that you can still get those dirty water dogs but all you can get with it is ketchup and mustard, no more relish, onions, chili or cheese for you unless you buy from me. Trust me, I don't like what they are doing but I can understand the mindset.

This analogy makes no sense to me. The resale sellers would be more like people who bought jewelry from a jewel store, decided they no longer wanted it, and then resold it at a lower price. The store still sold it, made full money off the sale, and the jeweley is the same thing as when it was first sold.

Your comparison has two issues:
1. It seems to imply that resale points were never sold by Disney in the first place (they were, Disney made tons of money off of them already.)
2. It implies that resale points are somehow dirty or unhygienic. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Marionnette]

They just did make buying direct more attractive starting with Riviera, you can stay at any resort you want if you buy direct. Not saying I like it but it is what it is. And you can eat your whole hotdog, just not inside of my restaurant.

But is it attractive enough? They're telling resale purchasers "You can't book at Riviera or any of the new resorts, but you can still book a stay at any of the other 14 fabulous resorts, each of which still have at least 23 more years to their contracts."

Will disallowing resale owners a chance to use their points at Riviera or Relections be enough of a disincentive over the next 5 years? How many DVC II resorts will it take for potential buyers to pay a larger price in order to have access to those resorts...especially since they know that when they sell, that advantage disappears into the ether? Sure, the uneducated buyer is going to sign on the dotted line to purchase direct. But that's not who DVC is directing this action at. They're targeting the informed buyer, who is aware of the resale market. How many of them are going to be influenced to buy direct as a result of this?

 

[nkosiek]

IMHO DVC has been devalued for a long time now. When we first bought DVC in 2004, we could walk up to the front desk at a resort and find availability to stay there. We could pre-book just a few weeks out and get a preferred location at SSR with no issues. If we were 100% sure of what our plans were, we could book our preferred location 1bd at SSR at the 11-month window. Slowly the system changed and so did our ownership. We wanted guaranteed availability at AKL-Jambo so we bought a contract there, the same with Kidani. We wanted guaranteed availability at Aulani so we bought there. The less than 7-month SSR rooms started drying up and we moved to Hawaii. So we sold our SSR contract to a nice family through resale. Fast forward to today, I have problems booking AKL before the 7-month window. I found out dates on something at 9-months and had to waitlist/ stalk to be able to get a reservation. Aulani is not as much a problem because when we book there it is a bank and borrow situation. Are these new resale restrictions going to change what value I have in the contracts, no. Has the availability of inventory changed in such a way that I can't take the vacations that I would like, yes it has. I am about to start law school in the fall, I will not know my vacation opportunities until about four weeks out from starting school. Unless I can find an SSR 1bd or something similar in the book next 60 days area of the DVC site, my Disney Vacations will come to a full stop. I say SSR because there is 0% chance of our preferred resort AKL having availability within the 7-month window. It is my opinion that Disney oversold many of the resorts and this change for resale owners is a way to fix the issue, but I also think it will fail miserably at this.

Some of the 'perks' coming back would help me change the value in my mind. I like the AP but since I can only go on breaks getting the AP that has no blackouts is beyond cost prohibitive right now(for me). There was a buy three days, get one day a few years ago, this I could swing. While I make plans to bank my points and maybe use them for a cruise between 2L and 3L years I am not sure of my vacation strategy. I have one reservation in the pike, I traded AKL and Aulani points for a 1bd Theme Park view at BLT for my Undergrad Graduation Trip at 7-months. I had the original 2bd Savanah View booked at the 11-month window because I knew last spring when Graduation day would be.

I think the problem for you is that you want to be able to book a certain way but that's no longer possible because people understand the product more. The idea that we should expect rooms to just be waiting there for us a month out seems like a bad one for all involved. As more people found out about DVC/bought in, more people were going to understand what it took to land coveted reservations. This is truly a case of knowledge being power. The more knowledgeable you are about the product, the better it will work for you.

 

[ziravan]

But is it attractive enough? They're telling resale purchasers "You can't book at Riviera or any of the new resorts, but you can still book a stay at any of the other 14 fabulous resorts, each of which still have at least 23 more years to their contracts."

Will disallowing resale owners a chance to use their points at Riviera or Relections be enough of a disincentive over the next 5 years? How many DVC II resorts will it take for potential buyers to pay a larger price in order to have access to those resorts...especially since they know that when they sell, that advantage disappears into the ether? Sure, the uneducated buyer is going to sign on the dotted line to purchase direct. But that's not who DVC is directing this action at. They're targeting the informed buyer, who is aware of the resale market. How many of them are going to be influenced to buy direct as a result of this?

Right, those high on pixie dust buying without research will buy anyway.

This is targeted at people who know about resale. And frankly this introduces such a huge uncertainty about resale values at Riviera that you’d be crazy to buy Riviera direct if you know about resale.

At least until enough Riviera contracts hit the resale market to gauge their real value.

This takes whatever uncertainty about buying direct that might exist in those that know about resales and multiplies them.

Eventually, current leadership will have a “Jim Lewis” moment and walk this back. Not for the first year of sales though. Probably.

 

[DenLo]

What bothers me with the restriction for resale buyers of the Riviera is that they are owners of the Riviera and they will have to compete to stay at their home resort with non-owners from the Legacy 14 DVC resorts. These Riviera resale owners have a small chance of getting into their own resort at the 7 month mark. How do you persuade anyone to buy a resale contract for the Riviera when they know they may not get to use their points some years? Or they have to do split stays at their own resort, by booking 3 nights here and 4 nights another month. I think the restriction would be fine if they had their own booking window at 7 months and the legacy people couldn't book until 6 or even 5 months.

This problem will resolve once the resale owners outnumber direct purchase owners at the Legacy resorts but that will be years away. In the meantime the resale owners at the Riviera will often have problems booking. And may never get to use their points for Food and Wine, Thanksgiving, all of December or early January.