Is this school "punishment" acceptable?

[Minnesota!]

That is the was it was handled all through grade school for me. Never bothered me in the least. If you did something wrong, you knew what was coming. That's why, IMO, kids are so spoiled rotten these days. Heaven forbid they are ashamed of their behavior...

 

[yeartolate]

American students are not lacking in self-esteem. Often, their self-esteem far exceeds their capabilities, as they have been coddled and rewarded since birth for every "accomplishement" great and small.

Writing names on the board is a practice as old as public school itself, it were truly so destructive, our society would have imploded 80 or 90 years ago.

And I myself am totally opposed to reward-based discipline. We have a generation of children who ask "what's in it for me" before they so much as get out of bed in the morning.

I highly recommend the book "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn, which gives solid evidence that reward based discipline is a failure in school, at home, and in the workplace. When people are bribed to do a task, they devalue that task ("This must be a real pain to do, if they have to give me a prize for doing it"). When children are bribed to behave, they do not learn the intrinsic value of being a good person. They do not learn that discpline, self-control, moral behavior and courtesy are their own rewards.

Writing a child's name on the board is about the most benign and non-confrontational punishment I can think of. If a teacher can't even do that, then we should just give up altogether and let the little darlings run wild.

Excellent post!


Stands claps and whistles for thi

 

[BuckNaked]

Excellent post!


Stands claps and whistles for thi

Same here!!

And for this one, too:

well - my honest opinion.
I'm sorry that your daughter feels horribly upset over her punishment. BUT, punishments aren't supposed to make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

IMHO, this is one of the things that has gone horribly wrong with children and the entire world we surround them in today. It is why we have school systems that are being run by the inmates. It is why "all the children are above average" and it is why most teachers leave the profession in droves within 5 years of starting the job.

No child can ever be told that they were wrong or bad. No child can ever be told that they got an F on their Spelling Test because the Child made the bad choice to watch Survivor Thurs night instead of study (it must be the Teachers fault), no child can ever be disciplined or be told that they are anything other than just the most absolutely perfect being ever to walk the face of the Earth since Jesus Christ himself because ---

well you didn't see her last night. She was CRYING.

I have 3 kids and let me tell you. They CRY. Kids since the beginning of time have cried when they are upset and when they break the rules it is the JOB of their parents and teachers to make them upset.

 

[DisneyLovingMama]

DD is 5, and she's had a very tough year. As a result, she is very sensitive about everything. Does she have other "issues"? Yeah, she does. We're working on them with a therapist. Does she need to toughen up? She's only 5, I really don't want her to be any more tough than she already is. She's had a lifetime of crap piled on her in just the last 12 months. She's survived it as good as any adult. I don't need her to be any more tough or grown up.

So, sorry if I'm a little protective of her. Don't think that makes me a bad mom or her a spoiled kid. I did not let her know how I felt about the punishment, but reinforced the idea that she should be behaving in class. I was just venting here that something happened that upset my baby. As far as she was concerned, I was (and generally am) in full agreement with her teacher. I didn't buy in to her behavior or coddle her last night. She wanted to go to bed and didn't want to eat...told her that was her option, but she wasn't getting special treatment (like sleeping in my bed) or anything else. Not sure what I did that was so wrong, except question a practice that many teachers (here and IRL, like my Mom and my neighbor) think is archaic and detrimental.

Anyway, DD's fine today and assured me she was going to have a "good day".

 

[Bob Slydell]

Not sure what I did that was so wrong, except question a practice that many teachers (here and IRL, like my Mom and my neighbor) think is archaic and detrimental.

Anyway, DD's fine today and assured me she was going to have a "good day".

I don't think you did anything "wrong". Many of us just don't agree that the discipline technique is archaic.

I'm glad your DD is doing much better today.

 

[In a hurry]

I am glad your daughter is doing better today! I am sorry she has had such a tough year, and hope it improves. Toughening up is just one of those things that happen as we struggle thru our lives, IMO. And doing it in a loving home will help her to steer thru those times when life is really hard, and it isn't just a name on the board.

As a teacher, I just disagree with your opinion about the horrors of putting a name on the board. People disagree about stuff. It's what makes the world interesting!

 

[cardaway]

The chalk has always always been mightier than the paddle.

I think the board idea is a good one.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I'm glad she's feeling better.

And see, she has probably learned a couple of things #1. There are consequences to not following the classroom rules and #2. I didn't die because everybody saw that I sometimes make mistakes.

So really, this perhaps is not such a bad thing??????

 

[jodifla]

As a manager, I would be considered highly ineffective if I disciplined adults in front of others.

Why do we think it's OK to treat our children like they are not people?

I didn't once suggest not dealing with poor behavior. But I think there's a better way than the archaic "name on the board" thing. As others said, it's devastating to the sensitive ones, and doesn't mean much to the ones who don't care. The red light, green light, yellow light system seems a lot more positive to me.

 

[va32h]

So, sorry if I'm a little protective of her. Don't think that makes me a bad mom or her a spoiled kid. I did not let her know how I felt about the punishment, but reinforced the idea that she should be behaving in class. I was just venting here that something happened that upset my baby. As far as she was concerned, I was (and generally am) in full agreement with her teacher. I didn't buy in to her behavior or coddle her last night. She wanted to go to bed and didn't want to eat...told her that was her option, but she wasn't getting special treatment (like sleeping in my bed) or anything else. Not sure what I did that was so wrong, except question a practice that many teachers (here and IRL, like my Mom and my neighbor) think is archaic and detrimental.

I'm sorry if you got that impression from my posts. I didn't say you were a bad mother or that your daughter was spoiled, or that you specifically did anything wrong.

I was simply extrapolating from your situation, talking about the broader issue, the ramifications of feel-good discipline methods.

I have a very sensitive daughter as well, and I have been in your situation.

But to be fair, you were not "just venting". The title of this thread is a question "Is this school punishment acceptable". We answered the question.

 

[BuckNaked]

As a manager, I would be considered highly ineffective if I disciplined adults in front of others.

Why do we think it's OK to treat our children like they are not people?

Treating them like people is one thing. Treating them like adults is something entirely different. They aren't adults, and the problem with many kids today (not referring to the OPs daughter) is that they DO think they are entitled to the same treatment as adults. Sorry, but no.

I didn't once suggest not dealing with poor behavior. But I think there's a better way than the archaic "name on the board" thing. As others said, it's devastating to the sensitive ones, and doesn't mean much to the ones who don't care. The red light, green light, yellow light system seems a lot more positive to me.

Please explain to me how the green, yellow, red light system is any different, i.e., other kids still know who is in trouble or heading for trouble, no?

 

[Bob Slydell]

As a manager, I would be considered highly ineffective if I disciplined adults in front of others.

Does your office have the entire department sitting in one large conference room? If not, then it's not possible to compare an office setting to a classroom.

Even without a chalkboard or some other visible display, discipline in a classroom is going to be done in front of the entire class regardless. And kids will always remember who got in trouble that day, chalkboard or no chalkboard.

 

[Stitchfans]

like many others I agree this isn't right.

 

[jodifla]

To me, a child as young as 5 needs more chances. The name on the board thing is black and white, good and bad. The light system is more cautionary, and the way the system is implemented in friends' children's classrooms, they can work their way out of a yellow light more quickly. Perhaps is a subtle difference, but it seems a lot less punitive and more constructive to me.

 

[jodifla]

Does your office have the entire department sitting in one large conference room? If not, then it's not possible to compare an office setting to a classroom.

Even without a chalkboard or some other visible display, discipline in a classroom is going to be done in front of the entire class regardless. And kids will always remember who got in trouble that day, chalkboard or no chalkboard.

Yes, we worked pretty much in all one room together.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Originally Posted by jodifla
As a manager, I would be considered highly ineffective if I disciplined adults in front of others.

Why do we think it's OK to treat our children like they are not people?

No I'm sorry. Adults in the work world are most definately out there for everybody to see and judge. My first job was as a cashier at a Pizza Place. When I spent to much time leaning on the counter flirting with the boy customers who came in I was told IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE RESTAURANT "There are Customers Waiting To Be Served." If it happened too often, I have no doubt that the Manager would have asked for my hat and apron...right there on the spot.

My most recent job was as a System Analyst for a Banking Software firm. Every week -- production reports went out that listed BY NAME the number of assisgnments that had been finished and the reported error rates.

Right there for everybody to see -- who was being successful and who wasn't.

If a child cannot handle others knowing that she made a mistake, how will she ever participate in a Spelling Bee, a High School Speech Class, having to defend her Thesis in front of a panel of Professors in College, standing up in a conference room as an adult to present next year's budget --- being a keynote speaker at the Yearly sales conference?

 

[punkin]

As the mother of an exteremely sensitive child (only one, the other one is real bruiser), I can tell you that forcing her to toughen up when you think she sould toughen up will usually backfire and cause her to turn into a mound of anxiety ridden jelly, only able to get through the day with lots of psychopharmaceuticals.

She will toughen up in her own time.

OP. Speak to the teacher and explain your situation. Most teachers are quite receptive (even though I have dealt with some who were not).

 

[Toby'sFriend]

To me, a child as young as 5 needs more chances.

Really?
Because in our house we have a saying. No means NO the first time -- not the third.

Giving a classroom full of 5 year old kids 2 chances at misbehavior before applying a consequence is just asking for a room of 5 year olds who are more than content to misbehave twice a day.

And besides, writing the name on the board is a chance. It is saying, next time you do that behavior you will be in at recess or whatever comes next in the teacher's progression of discipline.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Also for other reasons, I think the teacher has no real control over the classroom. Every time I am there she is yelling at or telling the kids they are acting like babies or something like that.

I can't believe that everyone has just skipped over and ignored this quote.
I would be WAY more concerned about this behavior than I would having names on the board. Especially with a 'sensitive' child.

This is NOT appropriate behavior for a teacher of 5 year olds.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Yes, we worked pretty much in all one room together.

So, then, how was it possible to discipline your employees without it being in front of everyone else?