Is this school "punishment" acceptable?

[KarenB]

Ahhhh Lee is the first name-that was driving me crazy!

 

[DisneyLovingMama]

Thanks for everyone's opinions! DD and I did have a conversation about not doing the things she was doing, so her name wouldn't get on the board again. Also told her that I loved her and she wasn't BAD. (I hate that term). Explained we all make mistakes and I knew she would think before not raising her hand again.

But, I still feel bad that she was shamed. As other teachers have posted in this thread, I do think there are others ways of dealing with misbehaving children. I also don't think a hitter and a non-hand raiser should be punished in the same way. And, in no way do I think the names should be left of the board. I don't care if Dick or Jane are in trouble, nor do I want others to know that my DD is in trouble. If the teacher wants to communicate with me that DD is bad, I have many other options for her.

Someone asked earlier - there is no way to get your name off the board, at least until the next morning. Also. this is a punishment recently instituted (probably after Christmas break), so it hasn't been in place all year.

I'm just counting the days until this school year is over. Next year DD starts at the public school. While I know they have their own problems, I'm more optimistic than I am now about DD's schooling.

 

[momrek06]

I am very confused....WHY does she HAVE to even raise her hand? And when she does NOT she is considered BAD? This is confusing to me and I am 52 y.o. (actually just today)!!! Anyway, back to the situation at hand. My DS' are off to college so it has been a while since I was in an elementary school. I am just confused. DD does not raise her hand and answer or ask a question and with this Teacher it is BAD. I think this Teacher has issues. I was my DS' Teacher's worse nightmare. If I felt my child was being treated unjustly and I (as the parent) was confused about this RULE of raising her hand...GUESS WHERE I WOULD BE THE VERY NEXT MORNING....yup, in the school asking questions to get a better understanding of THIS rule of hand raising and punishment???

KEEP US POSTED!!!!!!!!

WE ARE HERE FOR YOU!!!!!!!

 

[jodifla]

It's poor management on the part of the teacher, who is resorting to her own form of bullying.

Proper management tells you to reward in public, and discipline in private.

 

[Cor44432]

4th grade teacher here, and this is part of our school wide assertive
discipline plan.

It works very well for me personally, but I do not pass judgement on other
teachers for doing things there own way, as long as they are fair.

My students know the rules from minute one of day one as they are posted, they know the consequences and rewards also.

Sorry if others think this is "shaming", we'll just have to agree to disagree.
We also have detention hall at recess and after-school
So our kids pretty much know their name on the board should be
taken as a warning, and considered the least of their problems if
they continue to not follow the rules.

Of course, back in the day, problems at school WERE the least of my
problems, because I knew if anything I did required my teacher to call
home, I'd get it twice as bad from mom and dad, no questions asked.

 

[Cor44432]

How is it "bullying" when it is a posted consequence for not following
class rules??

And for me, it's great classroom management, because my students know
what is expected of them, and what the consequence is if they do not
meet those expectations.

 

[daisyduck123]

I am very confused....WHY does she HAVE to even raise her hand?

I hope you are just kidding/being sarcastic.

 

[momrek06]

OH NO! I just re-read the OP's THREAD and I read it wrong the FIRST time...O, I see now, I guess your DD SPOKE without RAISING HER HAND!!!

UGH!!! I have to say, yes, when my DS' were in school, if they wanted to speak to a neighbor, during a quiet time, or basically anytime during school, they did HAVE to raise their hand to ask if it would be okay.

OOOO, am I on the same page with everyone NOW....ugh...I feel like an idiot.

Okay, yes, I will say that would probably happen in DS' school IF the Teacher has to have asked my DS' a number of times to ASK before speaking to another student and IF it was a NUMBER of times the Teacher had to remind them to ASK FIRST then I could see the name going on the board RULE being inforced.

 

[momrek06]

I hope you are just kidding/being sarcastic.

NO!!! Sorry, did not read the Thread properly...ugh...I hope I cleared that UP!!!

IDIOT signing off

 

[beckmrk04]

Wow - this was standard practice when I was in elementary school. You could even get a circle or check on your name if you kept misbehaving.

I guess we never took it that seriously. It wasn't any huge shame to get your name on the board--it happened all the time. Thinking back, though, the whole ritual does seem kind of pointless.

I had my name on the board seriously, every day. I'm a talker- STILL AM. Didn't do much by way of changing my behavior!! I was also an honors student, and routinely the only "good" kid with her name on the board.

But, I wasn't a shy kid by any means, and I think that after 20 years they could think of a more appropriate punishment- especially since hitting and talking out of turn are in no way equal misbehaviors.

 

[aprilgail2]

And, in no way do I think the names should be left of the board. I don't care if Dick or Jane are in trouble, nor do I want others to know that my DD is in trouble.

Even if I don't see what kids names are on the board my 6 year old comes home from school "johnny had his name on the board two times, Andrew was sent to the principals office, Messiah had to go sit in another classroom because he was so bad the teacher couldn't take him anymore and needed a break, Katie had her desk moved next to the teacher becasue she wouldn't stop talking" So even without the names on the board parents know what kids are the ones with their names on the board or misbehaving in class...

 

[becka]

I can't believe some of you think that a kid having their name written on the board as a form of visual warning is "shaming" behavior. If the rules and consequences are laid out properly then kids know what will happen if they break a rule. I don't think anyone's life or self-esteem will be ruined because they had their name on the board. It is not like the teacher brought a child to the front of the class and verbally attacked her for not raising a hand and called her bad in front of the other students.

I suppose that those of you who feel this would damage a child's self esteem probably do not allow students to work at the board in front of the class either because that might expose to the other students in the class that they have not mastered a skill. I guess this goes along with all of that outcome based education. If a student gives an answer to what is 2 + 2 and they say 3 we should just applaud them for at least understanding that addition means more and they did say 3 which is more than 2....they are almost there. It might damage their self-esteem if they were told they were wrong and that 2 + 2 = 4.

 

[daisyduck123]

I think that after 20 years they could think of a more appropriate punishment- especially since hitting and talking out of turn are in no way equal misbehaviors.

It doesn't matter if they are "equal" misbehaviors or not. No one said they were....but still, a rule was broken. In assertive discipline, the kids know there will be consequences & what those consequences are.

This is an extreme comparison but....convicts go to the same jails whether or not they were just shoplifters or murderers....both kinds of convicts knew the consequences.

 

[Karel]

I've used the name on the board method while subbing. It's easy to set up and the kids know I mean business. Plus the teacher sees it the next morning.

I usually give kids a chance to get their name off the board though, too.

 

[beckmrk04]

It doesn't matter if they are "equal" misbehaviors or not. No one said they were....but still, a rule was broken. In assertive discipline, the kids know there will be consequences & what those consequences are.

This is an extreme comparison but....convicts go to the same jails whether or not they were just shoplifters or murderers....both kinds of convicts knew the consequences.

I get what you are saying- but murderers get harsher sentences. And yes, sometimes they go to higher security prisons. But, that's way OT.

I understand the whole concept behind the board- like I said, it was just kinda lost on me. And I don't think it's going to do any lasting permanent psychological harm to kids. But seriously, I do think that hitting deserves a different consequence. I mean- physical harm to someone else is a bit different than talking to your friend or not raising your hand. So I can see why the OP's daughter was upset, because she got lumped in with a kid who hits people with broomsticks.

Honestly, I don't think the name on the board thing is a big deal. They know the consequences. And yeah- they might be bummed that their name was on the board, next week they'll forget all about it, but maybe they'll remember to raise their hand or keep quiet during class.

 

[momrek06]

I can't believe some of you think that a kid having their name written on the board as a form of visual warning is "shaming" behavior. If the rules and consequences are laid out properly then kids know what will happen if they break a rule. I don't think anyone's life or self-esteem will be ruined because they had their name on the board. It is not like the teacher brought a child to the front of the class and verbally attacked her for not raising a hand and called her bad in front of the other students.

I suppose that those of you who feel this would damage a child's self esteem probably do not allow students to work at the board in front of the class either because that might expose to the other students in the class that they have not mastered a skill. I guess this goes along with all of that outcome based education. If a student gives an answer to what is 2 + 2 and they say 3 we should just applaud them for at least understanding that addition means more and they did say 3 which is more than 2....they are almost there. It might damage their self-esteem if they were told they were wrong and that 2 + 2 = 4.

I remember that at my DS' school, they would go over the RULES very clearly and then the RULE SHEET would come home to Mom and Dad and we would all read it together as a Family and then SIGN THEM and they would go back to school. This way the Teacher knew that the student as well as the Mom and Dad KNEW the rules and how they were to be inforced.

And to the other Poster who said Board or NO Board...it was BOTH my DS' that the minute they got off that BUS, I heard about each and every boy or girl that was NAUGHTY that day and who had their name on the Board or was sent to the Main Office. The two of them cackling like a couple of hens..

YES YES, as I read this Thread all of this is now coming back to me very clearly as to my days as a Parent of an elementary student.

 

[va32h]

I am 35, and my school used the name-on-the-board system. Your name was the warning, a check meant 15 minutes detention, two checks meant 30 minutes detention, three checks was a trip to the principal's office.

I survived this "shameful" process, with no ill effects.

I also have a sensitive daughter. Her 2nd grade teacher had a very complicate points system for behavior management, and it annoyed me to no end. Dd would come home every day worrying about how many plus or minus points she earned that day.

But I told her this: You are a good little girl. You obey and respect your teachers, you do your work, you don't hit or harrass your classmates, you respect school property. There is nothing you could do at school that would upset me to the point of punishing you at home. So whatever happens at school, just take a deep breath and let it go.

She is in 4th grade now, and she is fine. She has learned that different teachers have different ways of managing the class, and she just has to adapt. Much like grownups have to adapt to different bosses.

I also disagree that discipline should be kept private. Perhaps some issues are best discussed privately with the child, but how is the class supposed to understand that excessive talking, disruptive behavior, hitting etc is wrong if the transgressors are not dealt with? How does the teacher make the child stop doing the behavior, unless she says something about it? She can't leave the class every five minutes to privately discipline a child.

As for other kids and parents knowing, my kids have always known within the first two days of school exactly who the problem kids in the class are...and they fill me in every day on their antics.

Finally, I must say that I don't think there is anything wrong with a child occasionally feeling bad, or even ashamed, of their behavior. It's called having a conscience! If you do something wrong, you should feel bad.

Forgetting to raise a hand is hardly a blip on the radar of wrongdoing, so I am not saying your daughter should be wracked with guilt!

But on a larger scale, I know children who are brought up with this "no shame, no guilt" style of discipline, and they have no compassion or empathy for anyone else. They hit people, destroy property, and are horribly rude to adults, and they could not care less about anyone but themselves.

Shame is not intrinsically horrible. There's a word for people who never feel shame or guilt: sociopaths.

 

[DisneyLovingMama]

Even if I don't see what kids names are on the board my 6 year old comes home from school "johnny had his name on the board two times, Andrew was sent to the principals office, Messiah had to go sit in another classroom because he was so bad the teacher couldn't take him anymore and needed a break, Katie had her desk moved next to the teacher becasue she wouldn't stop talking" So even without the names on the board parents know what kids are the ones with their names on the board or misbehaving in class...

Right, but when DD comes home and tells me this stuff, I tell her it's not nice to tattle and that it's up to Johnny and Suzie's parents to discipline them. It's not for me or DD to discuss.

For those of you that don't think it's shaming, you didn't see my DD tonight. She was ashamed. Did she break a rule? Yes. Did I reinforce that she shouldn't have broken that rule? Yes. But, inside, I still think it's too much ado for not raising her hand, or it's not enough to do for the broom hitter.

Also for other reasons, I think the teacher has no real control over the classroom. Every time I am there she is yelling at or telling the kids they are acting like babies or something like that.

I'm sure it'll be a distant memory tomorrow, but I wish she wasn't feeling the way she did. I know a lot of it has nothing to do with school, but her feelings that it was her fault my ex left. She has tried to be so "good" so he'll come back. I'm sure this has set her back, or sent her for a loop.

Oh well, i'm going to bed now. Thanks for all the input.

 

[HaleyB]

Our whole school uses this method, and I have to say I don't think it works very well. It is not exactly this, the names all start on 'green' and go to 'yellow' then 'red' and can move either way depending on how the kids are.

A few teachers have switched to a positive reinforcer, 'tickets' for being good given at random times through out the day. The tickets can be used to buy things like getting to take off shoes for reading time, sitting on a pillow all day, getting to bring a stuffed animal in, lunch with the teacher in the room on Fridays. I MUCH prefer to sub/help in these rooms.

The punishment I gripe about the most is the group thing. Everyone will lose free reading or recess because a few kids acted up. Those tend to be the most out of control rooms and I am not sure which is the cart and which the horse. I just know it is unfair and good kids think they might as well not try if they will get in trouble anyway.

 

[challada]

I work in schools and can say, there are positive and negative ways to discipline...the name on the board is not the greatest means of handling discipline, but it can be effective for a warning system.

Try this one that is done in the entire school system in our town: every classroom must stop what they are doing at least every hour and "take points"...on the overhead, the teacher has a list of students and goes thru the entire list asking the children how many "points" they think they earned in the last hour (up to a certain #...not "I get a million!")...then teacher can say, "no, your wrong, you earned (lower amount)", but not only can the teacher say that, other students can too....so now, your shy child who feels terrible about not raising her hand can deduct a point for that, teacher can shoot her down more and then other kids can gang up on her and reduce her even more! Of course, the school bullies do well in such a system as they feel no remorse for their actions so don't deduct points and others are too scared to challenge them. So now, at least 15 minutes of every instructional hour is spent on an this!