Is the "problem" that DVC is a CRO Bust?

[diznyfanatic]

I think the answer is to have a 120-day window for cash bookings at the DVC resorts... After that, it's back to DVC inventory... We have too many members on wait lists for our own darn resorts...

THAT'S why it is really upsetting to me about this new $95 change to stay at a non-DVC WDW resort property.

With the increasing demand for DVC rooms and the shorter time you have to book anything before there is no availability and you have to go on a waitlist, (which doesn't work so hot either) while Disney sits on CRO DVC rooms that are NOT obviously being booked either, is wrong.

Disney should be returning unsold DVC CRO inventory at least at 90 days out back to the members.

 

[kimberh]

I think they don't do better through CRO for a few reasons.

1. PRICE
2. Most people do not understand what they are/are not getting with a DVC villa.
3. Disney has done a poor job of marketing to fill these rooms via CRO. I think that was one reason for the CRO DVC category name change recently.
4. The DVC counter food offerings are inconsistent. BWV, for example, doesn't even offer a counter service option for the price and OKW's is limited.
5. PRICE

We bought DVC in Mar 2006, up until then I did not know that DVC villas could be rented from CRO. I honestly thought it had to be from a DVC owner, and I wasn't really sure if I was up to that yet. I did end up renting one and then buying, but that is another thread. When I booked my room at WL I did it online, I never scrolled down to the Villas section, now I see it, but then I just scrolled to Deluxe hotels and picked from there. Disney needs to do a better job of marketing.

I am wondering about the 120 day booking, does that mean we can't book after that? If so, I am sure glad I have different UY's. I have added a extra day at the last month before to a planned trip.

 

[gkrykewy]

Disney should be returning unsold DVC CRO inventory at least at 90 days out back to the members.

Given the new 4-month "black hole" for banking, it would have to be greater than 120 days to make sense. probably at least an extra month.

 

[tfc3rid]

I had thought the fee was $75 for exchanges in the first place...

I say a minimum of 120 days for returning inventory to DVC is appropriate considering that 4 months is basically a 120 day period...

 

[tjkraz]

With the increasing demand for DVC rooms and the shorter time you have to book anything before there is no availability...

Demand may be increasing, but so is supply.

If reservations are getting harder to come by, we have only ourselves to thank. It simply means that members are getting more agressive in booking certain resorts and/or dates than they were 2 or 5 or 10 years ago.

...while Disney sits on CRO DVC rooms that are NOT obviously being booked either, is wrong.

Disney should be returning unsold DVC CRO inventory at least at 90 days out back to the members.

Well, it's Disney's right to hold those rooms if they choose to do so. Disney NEEDS to turn points into CRO reservations in order to facilitate the Disney Collection and the Concierge Collection. They only stand to lose reservations by implementing a cutoff date. Cash-paying guests aren't often known for planning their trips 6+ months ahead of time.

If there's any good to come of the $95 fee, it's that it may discourage people from using points outside of the DVC resorts. The net impact would be fewer rooms turned over to CRO and more rooms available to members.

 

[JimMIA]

I think it's because Disney is getting ready to open a couple hundred Contemporary Suites to cash guests, and they expect demand for DVC villas to drop off.

Somebody slap Tim silly! Quick!

 

[Sammie]

If reading the resorts boards is any accurate indication of anything, it seems most CRO guests consider the monorail and Magic Kingdom views to be the epitome of Disney's deluxe offerings. DVC, currently anyway, has no monorail access and offers no views that many hotel guests would consider paying for, BWV being the exception. The price of a DVC villa gets them into the Polynesian or GF hotels and all of the assorted guest pleasures that come with those hotels. I think we, DVCers, tend to over-estimate the value of a room with lots of space while the WDW hotel guest is more inclined to want to stay at the WDW "deluxe" hotels if they are going to spend that much $$$.

I would say that is very accurate. I like the DVC villas as well as anyone, but there is no comparison in service and atmosphere to the deluxe resorts. Many want room service and a hotel atmosphere which is why SSR and OKW do not appeal to many nonDVC guests for the price that costs to stay there. Those that want the hotel atmosphere, are just as happy to take a standard room at Beach Club, Yacht Club, WL or BW Inn than to book the DVC section. Especially considering you get all the same hotel amenties for less price.

Also the studio situation is definitely a disadvantage. If booking a room that size at that cost I will take a room with two queen beds and a nice day bed anyday over what DVC offers.

If I did not have DVC points we would never stay at DVC for the cost and what they offer. Which is why we went to WDW for years and years before we bought.

Plus if anyone truly wants to stay DVC, why would they pay what Disney is asking when you can rent from members for half that.

 

[diznyfanatic]

Given the new 4-month "black hole" for banking, it would have to be greater than 120 days to make sense. probably at least an extra month.

My apologies. You're exactly right, it should be at least 120 days. I had forgotten about the new banking window.

 

[Mtnman44]

Everyone has already seen this, right? Definately seems like they are trying to better integrate the DVC rooms into the CRO stream.



Resorts debut new category name

Beginning on Aug. 16, Guests shopping for Walt Disney World® accommodations will discover a "new" category of resorts.

In an effort to alleviate confusion about the availability of Disney Vacation Club accommodations as nightly rentals, and to better describe these resorts' amenities, Disney vacation planners will use the term Disney Deluxe Villa Resorts in reference to the Disney Vacation Club properties for non-Members. (These resorts previously were listed as Disney Vacation Club Resorts.)

The Disney Deluxe Villa Resorts category tops off a line-up of Disney Resorts for every taste and budget, including Disney Value Resorts, Disney Moderate Resorts and Disney Deluxe Resorts.

As this resort category name change affects Guest rental bookings only, Disney Vacation Club Members will continue to know these properties as Disney Vacation Club Resorts.

 

[Dean]

Given that a significant portion of rooms given to DVC are not rented at all (75% at times in the past an an overall) and that CRO takes a significant cut, apparently around a third, the system is swimming upstream on these cash equivalent options. Of course DVC could do better, but at the expense of owners, by scarfing up high demand times to rent more than they currently do.

 

[pilferk]

Just a random thought (this is probably too cranky and negative - but that's how I'm feeling today.)

To me, it's been becoming clearer and clearer that DVC resorts are CRO busts - places Disney has not been successful renting through CRO. When Disney is overbooked at All-Stars and moving folks into SSR for free, it's clear things aren't working on the CRO front.

As such, Disney doesn't want our points. They can't turn points into CRO $$$. So they've been giving away Double Developer Points as a sales incentive (Disney is indifferent between $8 and two years of points) and giving very little value back through the Disney Collection and DCL.

But, that's not enough, so now Disney is taking it to the next level. To *really* discourage the Disney Collection they add a $95 fee and make it tougher to use with only an 8 month window.

Change the marketing name to try and get turn the CRO thing around.

And, to top it off, go ahead and sell those 2043+ years rather than wait for it to come back to CRO.

Note - I went back and forth between saying DVC in general has been a bust, and saying SSR/OKW has been a CRO bust. Hard to say about VWL/BCV/BWV, as there is so little CRO opportunity…

I think you're hitting the nail on the head.

The more "uninformed" guests don't really even think of renting a DVC room as an option...and those that do see the prices in comparison to a "regular" hotel room, and likely balk (whatever the benefits of a studio are).

The more "informed" guests DO think of renting a DVC room, see the prices that Disney rents them at, and then quickly sees they can get a MUCH better deal renting points from a member.

So, CRO is handed a good amount of points to rent, has little real "marketing muscle" behind renting those points, and has to deal with the fact those same rooms can be rented at a pretty steep discount from an owner. So what do you do? Add a $95 fee for tradeout to help recoups some of those costs and offset the "disadvantage" they see themselves as having..

 

[NMW]

If reading the resorts boards is any accurate indication of anything, it seems most CRO guests consider the monorail and Magic Kingdom views to be the epitome of Disney's deluxe offerings. DVC, currently anyway, has no monorail access and offers no views that many hotel guests would consider paying for, BWV being the exception. The price of a DVC villa gets them into the Polynesian or GF hotels and all of the assorted guest pleasures that come with those hotels. I think we, DVCers, tend to over-estimate the value of a room with lots of space while the WDW hotel guest is more inclined to want to stay at the WDW "deluxe" hotels if they are going to spend that much $$$.

I agree with this a lot. I can't even begin to tell you how little a kitchen and extra space mean to me. Nothing at ALL. When I go to Disney I want to stay either at a monorail resort (POLY) or Epcot resort period. I would never ever pay the same amount of $$$ to stay at SSR or OKW that I could pay to stay at the BC/YC or the POLY. I really wouldn't care if it was a 2 bedroom villa vs. a standard hotel room at one of the Deluxe's.

This is a big reason we have decided that DVC just isn't for us. We have sold our BWV contract and have booked a May 08 Magic your way vacation package with deluxe dining at our old fav, the BC. I wanted the POLY, but DH and our sons conspired against me!

We came to the conclusion that the ONLY DVC resorts we wanted to stay at were our home-BWV or the BCV. While we really love the BW, I hated feeling locked into it every trip. Three trips in a row was enough for us. I felt dissapointed every time I walked into the POLY or the YC and KNEW that I couldn't stay there. Trying to switch to BCV at 7 months, and going on a waiting list does not appeal to me at all. We want to try different deluxe resorts, not different DVC resorts. I guess we didn't fully do enough reseach before we bought. I didn't realize how much lack of maid service would bother me. Having to wash our own towels EVERY day got really old. Luckily our BWV contract sold really fast-thank you Timeshare store! We even made a little money.


I still think DVC is a great program, but not for people who like the Disney deluxe hotels and Disney's vacation packages, like us. So, I can understand people calling WDW travel company or CRO and not having an interest in the DVC villas-especially the ones not near any parks-SSR and OKW. I think a lot of DVC members overestimate the value of extra space and a kitchen. Those things don't mean a lot to everyone, and to some people, they mean nothing.

 

[MiaSRN62]

NMW says :I think a lot of DVC members overestimate the value of extra space and a kitchen. Those things don't mean a lot to everyone, and to some people, they mean nothing.

While I personally don't feel this way----as a family of 5 who frequently does 12-14 days stays in WDW, the space is a must for us or we would just about strangle eachother. Also, when you stay that long, it's so convenient having the washer/dryer in the room because we try to pack light. But I realize not all feel this way. Even some DVC Members can't understand the value of the extra space we get at say, OKW----some would rather the proximity to Epcot or whatever. They don't understand that some value space and make comments about how "OKW doesn't even feel like it's in wdw". There are so many varied preferences. You get to hear so many different viewpoints.

OTOH, I can totally understand what you are saying. I also frequent the Orlando area boards here on DIS (I have an offsite timeshare as well). As you said, DVC Members may very well overestimate the value of extra space and kitchen. But on the Orlando boards, most of them can't understand how anyone would stay in anything less than a 2 bedroom or a full house. And these same people don't see anything special about staying onsite and often poke fun at the "disney magic" factor of staying onsite. Even when you debate the perks of staying onsite, they don't get it or just don't value any of that. They often say things like they'd rather walk on hot coals than stay in a disney hotel room (even a deluxe) for a week.

For as long as I've been on these boards, I have come to realize, as you said NMW, there are a whole lot of different people out there who all desire and value many different things out of an Orlando/wdw vacation.

 

[jarestel]

But on the Orlando boards, most of them can't understand how anyone would stay in anything less than a 2 bedroom or a full house. And these same people don't see anything special about staying onsite and often poke fun at the "disney magic" factor of staying onsite.

As such, these folks would not be likely to consider DVC accomodations either.

 

[MiaSRN62]

As such, these folks would not be likely to consider DVC accomodations either.

You are right jarestel....and they'll come right out and tell you that. I often hear as the reasoning, that : why would I pay more money for similar accomodations. They don't see the added value of being onsite vs being offsite alot of times. I've heard the onsite perks mean nothing to them (ME, EMH, package delivery, room key charging privileges etc). Some of them say they see absolutely no value in these things. Just goes to show there are so many different views out there.............

 

[jarestel]

Just goes to show there are so many different views out there.............

Absolutely! I'm not arguing a right or wrong to any specific view, just that, as you say, they do exist and in the eyes of the holder are perfectly legitimate.

 

[lisaviolet]

I agree with this a lot. I can't even begin to tell you how little a kitchen and extra space mean to me. Nothing at ALL. When I go to Disney I want to stay either at a monorail resort (POLY) or Epcot resort period. I would never ever pay the same amount of $$$ to stay at SSR or OKW that I could pay to stay at the BC/YC or the POLY. I really wouldn't care if it was a 2 bedroom villa vs. a standard hotel room at one of the Deluxe's.

This is a big reason we have decided that DVC just isn't for us. We have sold our BWV contract and have booked a May 08 Magic your way vacation package with deluxe dining at our old fav, the BC. I wanted the POLY, but DH and our sons conspired against me!

We came to the conclusion that the ONLY DVC resorts we wanted to stay at were our home-BWV or the BCV. While we really love the BW, I hated feeling locked into it every trip. Three trips in a row was enough for us. I felt dissapointed every time I walked into the POLY or the YC and KNEW that I couldn't stay there. Trying to switch to BCV at 7 months, and going on a waiting list does not appeal to me at all. We want to try different deluxe resorts, not different DVC resorts. I guess we didn't fully do enough reseach before we bought. I didn't realize how much lack of maid service would bother me. Having to wash our own towels EVERY day got really old. Luckily our BWV contract sold really fast-thank you Timeshare store! We even made a little money.


I still think DVC is a great program, but not for people who like the Disney deluxe hotels and Disney's vacation packages, like us. So, I can understand people calling WDW travel company or CRO and not having an interest in the DVC villas-especially the ones not near any parks-SSR and OKW. I think a lot of DVC members overestimate the value of extra space and a kitchen. Those things don't mean a lot to everyone, and to some people, they mean nothing.

Thanks so much NMW for sharing that. Wow. So interesting to read and a real eye opener. We bought DVC for the exact opposite reasons. We really love to hang out and a kitchen and/or kitchenette was one of the top reasons. Coming from Value/Mods the balcony was a factor as well. Loved reading your story and viewpoint on what is important. Good for you for knowing that selling, and going back to deluxe accomodations, was the best decision. Have a wonderful vacation. And here's to many future visits to the Poly!

Lisa

 

[Mtnman44]

Interesting. I totally see your point. Location is a huge point. However, I also disagree. For our situation, we do Orlando in big chunks, at least 10 day trips every other year. We could NEVER do this in a standard or even extra large hotel room. I can't even begin to imagine it. {shudder}. For sanity, I need the space, two bathrooms, my own bedroom, etc. Having a large and quiet DVC resort to escape the crowds is another plus to me.

That being said, I definately want to try a few days at a time at BWV and maybe the Poly (never been there).

I agree with this a lot. I can't even begin to tell you how little a kitchen and extra space mean to me. Nothing at ALL. When I go to Disney I want to stay either at a monorail resort (POLY) or Epcot resort period. I would never ever pay the same amount of $$$ to stay at SSR or OKW that I could pay to stay at the BC/YC or the POLY. I really wouldn't care if it was a 2 bedroom villa vs. a standard hotel room at one of the Deluxe's.

This is a big reason we have decided that DVC just isn't for us. We have sold our BWV contract and have booked a May 08 Magic your way vacation package with deluxe dining at our old fav, the BC. I wanted the POLY, but DH and our sons conspired against me!

We came to the conclusion that the ONLY DVC resorts we wanted to stay at were our home-BWV or the BCV. While we really love the BW, I hated feeling locked into it every trip. Three trips in a row was enough for us. I felt dissapointed every time I walked into the POLY or the YC and KNEW that I couldn't stay there. Trying to switch to BCV at 7 months, and going on a waiting list does not appeal to me at all. We want to try different deluxe resorts, not different DVC resorts. I guess we didn't fully do enough reseach before we bought. I didn't realize how much lack of maid service would bother me. Having to wash our own towels EVERY day got really old. Luckily our BWV contract sold really fast-thank you Timeshare store! We even made a little money.


I still think DVC is a great program, but not for people who like the Disney deluxe hotels and Disney's vacation packages, like us. So, I can understand people calling WDW travel company or CRO and not having an interest in the DVC villas-especially the ones not near any parks-SSR and OKW. I think a lot of DVC members overestimate the value of extra space and a kitchen. Those things don't mean a lot to everyone, and to some people, they mean nothing.

 

[tjkraz]

Well, I'm not going to presume to know what sort of accommodations people are willing to pay for when visiting WDW. Most deluxe resorts have club level rooms and suites that easily go for $800-1000 per night, so there must be some segment of the public willing to pay those prices. I used to work with a woman whose mother paid cash for a VWL Two Bedroom for the week of Thanksgiving. It would only be a mild understatement to say that money was no object in her case.

That scenario notwithstanding, what's undeniable is that point rentals dramatically reduce the number of customers looking to book that class thru CRO. I'm sure many renters are people just looking for a bargain who would book smaller rooms if not for point rentals. Others want that class of accommodation and view rentals as a fairly risk-free way to get the same room for a fraction of the cost.

In that sense, we have only ourselves to blame for the situation. If not for widespread point rentals, demand for DVC rooms thru CRO would increase.

A couple years ago I started a thread speculating about the impact rentals have on the high point costs for non-DVC resorts. If there was more demand for DVC resorts thru CRO, DVC wouldn't have to ask for as many points per night at non-DVC resorts in order to recoup their money.

 

[Sammie]

Well, I'm not going to presume to know what sort of accommodations people are willing to pay for when visiting WDW. Most deluxe resorts have club level rooms and suites that easily go for $800-1000 per night, so there must be some segment of the public willing to pay those prices.

Oh there is definitely a segment that will pay the prices for concierge and suites at Disney.

The highest repeat occupany of any Disney location is the main building at the Grand Floridian. They pretty much stayed booked year round.

Many people come back there, year after year and stay for long periods of time, even up to a month. So for them cost is not problem but they want that level of accommidations and service. For that particular guest you will never lure them away to a DVC villa.

And if I had that kind of money I would be right there with them. Though I want the 2 bedroom suite in Conch Key with the MK view.

In that sense, we have only ourselves to blame for the situation. If not for widespread point rentals, demand for DVC rooms thru CRO would increase

Totally agree but I for one did not contribute to that problem as I have been against widespread renting all along. I understand the occassional need to dump some points that will go unused, but when members do this on a regular basis, it does upset the system.