Is the "problem" that DVC is a CRO Bust?

[DisDaydreamer]

I have to agree with the basic CRO assessment, but we need to realize when we use our points outside the system, DISNEY pays our bill and we give them our points which are worthless until sold. If they are not able to break even by selling these points through CRO then they have to correct the problem somehow.

They could lower the CRO price to bargain basement pricing, but members would be outraged and it could have a very negative effect on property/points values (new and resale). They could end or strictly limit the trade-out option(s), but that too would devalue the property/points values.

So what else can they do but recoup $ through fees, which also will have some discouraging effect. Though, I think if someone really wants to trade out $95 isn't going to be a deal breaker.

All things considered, it seems like a measured and thought out solution. Seems like "DVC entitlement syndrome" or "perk mania" is running a little on the wild side with this issue.

My bottom line is... Don't take it so personal.

 

[tjkraz]

Totally agree but I for one did not contribute to that problem as I have been against widespread renting all along. I understand the occassional need to dump some points that will go unused, but when members do this on a regular basis, it does upset the system.

You and me both, Sammie. Not enough points to rent in this household.

Seems like it was just about a year ago that DVC started sending those letters to alleged "commercial renters." Perhaps they thought that notice would help stem the tide of rentals, and that it hasn't had much (any?) impact.

If there's any saving grace it's that the number of resorts without DVC villas is getting smaller with each passing year. If the CR happens, that leaves only the Poly and GF, plus the moderates.

 

[Mtnman44]

DisDaydreamer - I'm afraid I'm going to have to report your post to the moderators if you don't delete it. It has way too much reason, rational thought, and critical thinking. These types of things are generally frowned upon on internet chat boards.

I have to agree with the basic CRO assessment, but we need to realize when we use our points outside the system, DISNEY pays our bill and we give them our points which are worthless until sold. If they are not able to break even by selling these points through CRO then they have to correct the problem somehow.

They could lower the CRO price to bargain basement pricing, but members would be outraged and it could have a very negative effect on property/points values (new and resale). They could end or strictly limit the trade-out option(s), but that too would devalue the property/points values.

So what else can they do but recoup $ through fees, which also will have some discouraging effect. Though, I think if someone really wants to trade out $95 isn't going to be a deal breaker.

All things considered, it seems like a measured and thought out solution. Seems like "DVC entitlement syndrome" or "perk mania" is running a little on the wild side with this issue.

My bottom line is... Don't take it so personal.

 

[jarestel]

They could lower the CRO price to bargain basement pricing, but members would be outraged and it could have a very negative effect on property/points values (new and resale). They could end or strictly limit the trade-out option(s), but that too would devalue the property/points values.

If DVC rooms are sitting empty simply because pricing is too high, that doesn't do members any favors either. Because that would definitely affect trade-outs in a negative manner and devalue points (for tradeouts) as you point out.

 

[diznyfanatic]

I have to agree with the basic CRO assessment, but we need to realize when we use our points outside the system, DISNEY pays our bill and we give them our points which are worthless until sold. If they are not able to break even by selling these points through CRO then they have to correct the problem somehow.

They could lower the CRO price to bargain basement pricing, but members would be outraged and it could have a very negative effect on property/points values (new and resale). They could end or strictly limit the trade-out option(s), but that too would devalue the property/points values.

So what else can they do but recoup $ through fees, which also will have some discouraging effect. Though, I think if someone really wants to trade out $95 isn't going to be a deal breaker.

All things considered, it seems like a measured and thought out solution. Seems like "DVC entitlement syndrome" or "perk mania" is running a little on the wild side with this issue.

My bottom line is... Don't take it so personal.

Rob - Normally, I agree with just about everything you say. However, I can assure you that my being upset with this most recent $95 fee has absolutely nothing to do with "DVC entitlement syndrome" or "perk mania".

It has to do with this new fee being symptomatic of a larger DVC problem for us.

It has to do with DVC being more about recruiting new members than servicing their existing ones. And I don't care if my Cell Phone Provider or Cable company does the same thing.

It has to do more with them being worried about finding cash flow solutions for CRO reservations than worrying about shrinking DVC availability windows (hence causing more members to look for WDW non-DVC resort options).

It has to do with DVC housekeeping and maintenence problems, among others (hey, did it ever occur to them that maybe those might be some reasons guests don't want to pay the high DVC rates through CRO?).

It's about changing DVC policies rather than addressing the real issues. We can't hire enough Mousekeepers (because we won't pay them enough) so we'll just change the check in policy to AFTER 4:00. That ought to leave it open enough to stave off complaints. Frankly, I'm tired of the "anonymous" phone calls at 7:00 AM and/or the repeated knocks on the door before 11:00 AM.

It's about refusing to upgrade their computer systems to eliminate rental abuse and waitlist problems as well as the ability to properly track Developer Points.

It's about properly training the Member Service/CM staff so that it doesn't require multiple phone calls to finally get someone that knows the correct answer.

It's about out-sourcing jobs to 3rd parties who could care less about Magic. The recent problem of charging members for Valet parking and what it took to get it resolved is a good example.

Disney markets the heck out of the "Disney Difference" and "Disney Magic"... an image carefully crafted by Disney over generations to reflect quality service and standards that has served their bottom line very well. An image that was very strategically created to tap into the emotional Disney response that began during most people's childhood. Heck, the Disney Institute used to TRAIN other companies on their infamous Disney Service.

Sorry if their maketing plans were successul and people ended up investing emotionally and financially into the spin. Sorry if members/guests want to hold them accountable to the standards that they didn't mind using to get people to sign on the dotted line and that Disney used to willingly hold themselves to.

If we shouldn't "expect" any more from a Disney timeshare than any other timeshare, then I guess we all could have saved a few grand with less expensive timeshare options. Would people be so willing to defend any other timeshare company where people had the same concerns?

So yes, this $95 fee may or may not impact most members and should or should not be considered a perk. There are arguments on both sides. The same could be said for the new Banking Rules. We actually benefited due to the change, but I feel terrible for those that it hurt. So what's next? At the current rate of change, anything is possible.

We love DVC. We really do. We wish we'd done it sooner. We would just like to make sure it's the same Disney Vacation Club that we will end up leaving for our children and grandchildren.

 

[gkrykewy]

It has to do with DVC being more about recruiting new members than servicing their existing ones. And I don't care if my Cell Phone Provider or Cable company does the same thing.

While you make some good points, I just don't see this. New fees don't help them with new members either.

 

[tfc3rid]

If someone wants to use yheir points to stay at the Grand Floridian, then so be it... If you aren't ever going to do it, then don't worry about it...

However, it would be a nice touch for them to not charge it if we can't use our points for a given night.

 

[diznyfanatic]

While you make some good points, I just don't see this. New fees don't help them with new members either.

Well, Disney promotes DVC as being so flexible as a major ingredient in their sales presentations and that you could use your points, without surcharge, at any of the WDW resorts.

So, whether this new fee should be considered a perk, subject to change or is seen as a fundemental part of the program flexibility as some feel, is only part of the issue.

To us, it's just another case of dwindling service for the existing membership base.

Actually, I'm guessing that even some potential new members may be put off having to pay a $95 fee to use their points to stay at WDW non-DVC resort.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

It has only been 6 mos. since I became a DVC member, and here are all the changes already: Increased mousekeeping fees, increased non-DVC fee, change in Valet, possible 2042 extensions which I feel will be somewhat mandatory, banking changes, waitlist changes, II search changes, ticket price increases, DDP changes, possible AP changes. Have I left anything out? No wonder prospective buyers are having second thoughts......

 

[jarestel]

It has only been 6 mos. since I became a DVC member, and here are all the changes already: Increased mousekeeping fees, increased non-DVC fee, change in Valet, possible 2042 extensions which I feel will be somewhat mandatory, banking changes, waitlist changes, II search changes, ticket price increases, DDP changes, possible AP changes. Have I left anything out? No wonder prospective buyers are having second thoughts......

Good points and something all prospective DVC members should keep in mind... DVC can pretty much do whatever they please. The members are only along for the ride.

 

[Disney-Kim]

If reading the resorts boards is any accurate indication of anything, it seems most CRO guests consider the monorail and Magic Kingdom views to be the epitome of Disney's deluxe offerings. DVC, currently anyway, has no monorail access and offers no views that many hotel guests would consider paying for, BWV being the exception. The price of a DVC villa gets them into the Polynesian or GF hotels and all of the assorted guest pleasures that come with those hotels. I think we, DVCers, tend to over-estimate the value of a room with lots of space while the WDW hotel guest is more inclined to want to stay at the WDW "deluxe" hotels if they are going to spend that much $$$.

I completely agree with this stmt. If I was spending the cash it costs for DVC I would most definately be in a monorail dlx resort instead.

 

[Sammie]

It has only been 6 mos. since I became a DVC member, and here are all the changes already: Increased mousekeeping fees, increased non-DVC fee, change in Valet, possible 2042 extensions which I feel will be somewhat mandatory, banking changes, waitlist changes, II search changes, ticket price increases, DDP changes, possible AP changes. Have I left anything out? No wonder prospective buyers are having second thoughts......

I would not include ticket price changes, AP changes and DDP changes in any discussion of DVC, as they have no control over them.

I am not happy with some of the DVC member changes either but I won't put blame on them for something they have no control over.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I would not include ticket price changes, AP changes and DDP changes in any discussion of DVC, as they have no control over them.

I am not happy with some of the DVC member changes either but I won't put blame on them for something they have no control over.

I did not point the blame at DVC, just merely made mention of all the changes in such a short time span. Is this typical of DVC/Disney? Or is this a lot of change at once? It seems that we members are the ones who must be "flexible" in this timeshare arrangement, not the other way around.

 

[tomandrobin]

I did not point the blame at DVC, just merely made mention of all the changes in such a short time span. Is this typical of DVC/Disney? Or is this a lot of change at once? It seems that we members are the ones who must be "flexible" in this timeshare arrangement, not the other way around.

Growing pains!

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Again, this is not about DVC screwing DVC members... this is about making profit... If Disney cannot make profit or break even with the people that trade out... then heck, yes charge those people a fee to do it. We've traded out a couple times, but we would really understand a surcharge for doing it. How else are you going to remove the costs?

 

[Sammie]

I did not point the blame at DVC, just merely made mention of all the changes in such a short time span. Is this typical of DVC/Disney? Or is this a lot of change at once? It seems that we members are the ones who must be "flexible" in this timeshare arrangement, not the other way around.

Well ticket price increases are an annual occurance. The change to DDP was pretty much a response to over use and abuse.

Not sure what you were referencing with the AP changes if it is price, then that falls under ticket price increase.

Now the DVC changes are to me alot in a short time frame.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I doubt it is a bust. Do you think disney offering discount codes indicates a bust? Not me. They're just trying to attract the people that are hovering around waiting for the discounts. They're still selling rack rate to others.

When we first visited WDW as a family of 6 (we had been there before as a smaller family) we wanted a 2BR. BW was outrageous. OKW was less outrageous so we stayed there. We knew nothing about DVC. We booked through AAA and probably payed close to rack rates. Knew nothing about discount codes or renting points or Disboards or Mousesavers. They got us for high dollar.

BUT fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me, SO:

We loved OKW. Toured BWV but didn't want to buy there because we liked OKW so much. And then lo and behold we found out it was fewer points!!!! Wow. So we bought and now we use points.

If CRO can't utilize what they own at the DVc resorts they could always sell the itinerary back to DVC . Then DVc could resell again and again as BS repackaged point extensions.

 

[tjkraz]

Maybe this is off-topic, but if CRO really is a "bust", I wonder if DVC has thought of dealing in one-time point rentals (transfers, really) to members only.

If I'm planning a big family get-together and need 200 extra points for one-time use only, the most logical current alternative is to find someone with 200 extra points and pay $12 each for a transfer. If DVC used their re-acquired points to do the same, albeit at a higher rate ($14-15?), I wonder how many people would bite. Even with the higher price, I bet people would do it for the security of dealing with DVC instead of another member.

Probably not worth their time, though when you consider things like administrative costs and the potential negative impact on add-on sales.

 

[pirateparrot]

Maybe this is off-topic, but if CRO really is a "bust", I wonder if DVC has thought of dealing in one-time point rentals (transfers, really) to members only.

If I'm planning a big family get-together and need 200 extra points for one-time use only, the most logical current alternative is to find someone with 200 extra points and pay $12 each for a transfer. If DVC used their re-acquired points to do the same, albeit at a higher rate ($14-15?), I wonder how many people would bite. Even with the higher price, I bet people would do it for the security of dealing with DVC instead of another member.

Probably not worth their time, though when you consider things like administrative costs and the potential negative impact on add-on sales.

I was sitting here thinking the same thing. I wonder how successful the friends and family rental promo went? Maybe that was a test to see how well renting directly would work out. This could be done in a simialr fashion with the rental of points to members.

 

[pirateparrot]

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