Is the Magic Gone? My observations after returning for the first time in six years.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I also think that demographics play a part, as baby boomers who brought their kids are now bringing their grandchildren. Just a big market of repeat and loyal customers for Disney, but I don't see this wave continuing into the next generation.
This 1000! The current generation does not have the money for 10 days at The Poly. Disney will continue to huckleberry them with nickel and dimes (genie +, good cost, tickets) because they don’t have dollars. The “beauty” that we have of Disney is an expansion of a onetime economic miracle that will NEVER happen again. People who raised families during the boom time can’t stomach the idea that it won’t always be this way.

There will not be enough people dropping a year’s salary of a 3rd world worker for that 10 day Poly trip, there will be less magic.
 
A lot of vacationers don't want to think about whether they are going to need Genie + for each day or not, they just want to buy it for every day and have it over with, whether they actually end up using it or not. Kind of like the dining plan, but for rides.

Not just water with alcohol- electrolytes too. and you need food. Fortunately Disney drinks cost too much for most guests to fill up enough on those. There's a lot of pregaming, and probably some booze smuggling into the parks.
 
I'm glad that so many of still enjoy the magic. For my family it's not cost that bothers us as much as how complex it is to visit anymore. A theme park vacation shouldn't require this much work to enjoy. We just came back from a week long Cedar Point trip. It was a nice laid pack vacation, no booking rides, dinners or park reservations.
 
Great thoughts, thanks for the post!

I am one of those semi-infrequent visitors similar to yourself. I go every 3-4 years, whenever there is enough new stuff and I get the WDW itch. I do find a lot of the negativity on these boards a little overblown. However, the park reservations, restrictions on park hopping, and genie + being only available day of do have me a little worried for my next trip. I am pretty good at rolling with changes, because going less frequently there is always something to adapt to, but this trip has more overall uncertainty compared to most.
 


Dole Whip is only good with rum in it.

and Disney parks are not "for children." Not even the majority of visitors to all four parks are there with young children.
I agree with your second point. I actually found an interesting page that showed visitor demographics to the Disney parks in 2018 that shows that more than half of guests at WDW are adults without kids:
https://www.streetlightdata.com/measuring-travel-behavior-by-demographics-disney-world/?type=blog/

I would assume that now that number has grown and Disney knows it, hence the growing emphasis on alcohol.
 
Last edited:
There’s ways around spending more.If merchandise sales go down because people are spending money on lightening lanes than it may not be as profitable as Disney hoped. Theres only a certain amount I’m willing to spend on a Disney vacation so I’ll cut spending in certain ways to make it work. I’m sure I’m not alone.

I'm not sure I agree with that. What is Disney's out of pocket cost for LL/ILL/Genie+ compared to their out of pocket cost for merchandise and expensive meals? I'd wager that they have a larger profit margin on LL/ILL/Genie+ than they do on merch and stuff. So not spending the money to get the merchandise really gives them a higher profit anyway.

We're going down in December. We usually are a dining plan, character meal once a day, $75-100 per kid (5 of em) in souvenir family. This trip? We aren't spending the money on Genie+ because our tickets to get into the park are going to cost over $4k alone and I can't justify spending $15/person/day plus the cost of individual rides on top of that. We'll be eating quick service meals and snacks only. Honestly? We wouldn't even be going to Disney this year if my BFF wasn't going and staying on our points. We're planning on one more Disney trip in January of 2024 because my MIL and FIL want to go with us again, but then after that, we'll either rent our points or stay on property and go elsewhere like Universal.
 


I'm not sure I agree with that. What is Disney's out of pocket cost for LL/ILL/Genie+ compared to their out of pocket cost for merchandise and expensive meals? I'd wager that they have a larger profit margin on LL/ILL/Genie+ than they do on merch and stuff. So not spending the money to get the merchandise really gives them a higher profit anyway.

We're going down in December. We usually are a dining plan, character meal once a day, $75-100 per kid (5 of em) in souvenir family. This trip? We aren't spending the money on Genie+ because our tickets to get into the park are going to cost over $4k alone and I can't justify spending $15/person/day plus the cost of individual rides on top of that. We'll be eating quick service meals and snacks only. Honestly? We wouldn't even be going to Disney this year if my BFF wasn't going and staying on our points. We're planning on one more Disney trip in January of 2024 because my MIL and FIL want to go with us again, but then after that, we'll either rent our points or stay on property and go elsewhere like Universal.
We rented points. It was a huge savings for us. We paid about 250 a night for deluxe including tax. We had 6 day tickets we bought through UCT 6 months ago and did not get park hoppers. 4K for tickets you must have a huge party. If we go next year we’ll probably rent points again. It seems like the way to do it right now.
 
The people making the nasty comments about spending on genie+ and ILL don’t want to know what we’ve spent on riding the new Guardians coaster! But we love it and are having a great time so I don’t feel like a fool or a sucker - just someone fortunate enough to go on a very expensive holiday.
Most of the negativity is coming from people that haven’t been after the changes. We were fortunate enough to ride it twice. I lover the ride can’t wait for Tron.
 
Great write up - some things I agree with and some I have a different perspective:

regarding rides being down - the biggest culprits on our trip last month were the newer trackless ride with Remy being public enemy number 1.

Regarding alcohol - I'm not a big drinker but I'm very happy with the increased alcohol options over the years. When we are on vacation and don't have to worry about driving it's nice to be able to have an adult beverage. We really like trying the lounges and I personally love a shot of rum in my Dole Whip. WDW is one of the few places on earth where it's truly a vacation venue for all ages. The only place I see adults with bad behavior due to alcohol is Epcot, very infrequently, during the festivals.

Again - really enjoyed reading your write up.
 
What about the politics, wokeness, etc.?

I won’t touch that with a 10-foot pole. I know what I think, you know what you think. I’ll leave it at that.
Can you explain more about this without violating board policy? I was at WDW as recently as about a year ago and am unsure what you could be referring to.

I understand what has been going on in the state of Florida more recently regarding the "battle" between WDW and the governor. However, it is unclear to me (1) if that is actually what you are referring to and (2) what the effects inside the park would be that you seem to be referring to in your post.
 
Can you explain more about this without violating board policy? I was at WDW as recently as about a year ago and am unsure what you could be referring to.

I understand what has been going on in the state of Florida more recently regarding the "battle" between WDW and the governor. However, it is unclear to me (1) if that is actually what you are referring to and (2) what the effects inside the park would be that you seem to be referring to in your post.
Disney has made moves in recent years toward more inclusion. It's not just the recent feud with the governor. Here are a few (but not the only) instances:
  • Removing Trader Sam from the Jungle Cruise
  • Allowing cast members more inclusive options for appearance standards (beards, visible tattoos, cultural clothing options, and broader gender identity options)
  • Re-theming Splash Mountain away from Song of the South and into Princess and the Frog
  • Changing "Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls", into more inclusive language
There's more, but those are some of the bigger points.
 
it's probably not possible to go much into it without violating board policy, google is your friend, or just read some comment sections on Disney related facebook posts.
 
Over the years, the cost of Disney has increased much faster then general inflation or other places we like to go on vacation. Monorail resorts are around $500/day and just don't see it is worth it. Disney vacation costs roughly 2x as much as other places we like to go.

That's what I mean about Disney reflecting society at large. I absolutely cannot imagine spending $500+ per night on a hotel room. Seems insane to me. It probably seems insane to 90% of the U.S. population. If $500 a night at the Poly seems insane to you and me, guess what? We're not in Disney's target demographic (at least for that experience).

Quick Googling says that the top 1% of the population earns about $600k per year (per household).

Think what a monorail resort "feels like" to that family. A $500 a night room hits that $600k household with the same impact as a an $83 a night room hits for a $100k household. If you're family is pulling $100k, does $83 a night seem unreasonable? Probably not.

And if the 1% seems like a small group, consider that 1% of households in the US is already 1.2 million. Add in Western Europeans and other assorted common visitors, and you start getting a pretty decent sized pool of people (maybe 3+ million households) for whom $500 a night is... perfectly fine. I'm not complaining, exactly. I'm better off than most. When I was a kid it was a SUPER stretch to get two days at Disney once during my entire childhood. Now, I go every 3-5 years or so. I may not be among the fortunate 5% (or whatever) that can afford a monorail resort, but I am among the top 30% (or whatever) that can afford to go at all.

And as for those 1%-5% (probably a disproportionate number on this very forum) once you have a nice house and a nice car and nice food, what else are you supposed to spend money on? With all due respect, I scoff at people who spend a lot of money on material things - fancy brands, fancy cars, etc. I think those things are superficial, short-sighted materialism.

So, if I think the wealthier among us are superficial for buying fancy material goods, what exactly do I want them to spend it on? A nice Disney vacation seems like a perfectly decent way to spend your cash.

I can't blame (mostly) the top 1%-5% for making a good income, and I can't really blame Disney for providing them exactly what I'd want if I had that income.

Is Disney "too expensive"? In any rational way, sure. But then again, so is Starbucks coffee and a million other things that we spend money on. I've lived a substantial part of my life in an underdeveloped country, and 90% of what we buy and do in the U.S. seems like Disney-monorail-resort extravagance from that different perspective.

I'm not saying I like how expensive Disney is. It drives me nuts. But at the end of the day, there are enough people with enough money that not only can Disney charge what it charges, but it jam packs the park with those people.

I'm not sure what we expect them to do.

EDIT: And if you think that $500 is not worth it in terms of the comparative quality at Disney vs. what you might get elsewhere... well, so far, the market disagrees. (Or enough of it.) Let's see if that changes...
 
Last edited:
I just went back to Disney World after about six years away. As with most folks on this board, I’ve heard a lot of doom and gloom about where Disney is headed. I was worried.

Well, after two weeks there, my conclusion is that the magic is very much alive. In fact, for a visitor like me, all things considered, Disney is better than ever.

Here’s why:

The cast members

The cast members were, largely, just fine. Maybe not over the top magical, but mostly quite friendly and helpful. I did have a few that were not great, but I realize that Disney, like most businesses, is struggling to find workers. So for now, you staff with the people you can get, and I can’t blame Disney too much for the tough market for entry-level service work. In short, I don’t interpret somewhat lower cast member quality as a Disney failing as much as a “that’s where we are as a country right now” thing. (Personally, I think businesses need to buckle down and pay more – good old free market supply and demand works both ways – but that’s a different conversation.)

Imagineering

I can’t wrap my mind around anything other than being impressed with what they’re doing. From a sheer technical standpoint, some of the most recent stuff is, frankly, amazing. Rise of the Resistance was flat out breathtaking. The scope and creativity was off the charts, IMO. Flight of Passage was also very ambitious. It's hard to compare something like Haunted Mansion with RotR. I honestly love both but, nostalgia aside, I have a hard time thinking RotR comes out second in that comparison.

A few of the newer rides, while not necessarily technical marvels, are still just… fun. I can’t quite describe why, but Slinky Dog is a blast. Just fun and enjoyable. MMRR was more fun each time I rode it, full of little surprises and things I’d missed in past rides. I was worried about it being to heavily projection mapped, but (while it’s used a lot) it still worked quite well overall. Frozen Ever after is a nice ride. Nothing spectacular, but in my opinion it’s better than, say, Peter Pan.

Some of the new queues are works of art. Compare RotR or FoP – both of which have amazing, immersive queues – with, say, Soarin’, which is a disaster of a queue. The older rides are generally worse. Outside of Pirates, I can’t think of a queue on an older ride that even comes close to the modern stuff. I wasn’t a fan of Smugglers Run as a ride, but actually being inside a photorealistic copy of the Falcon was amazing and trippy. I also love how both RotR and FoP are turning the queue into a multi-stage drama all of its own. That’s smart and makes for a better experience.

I just don’t see how the more modern rides take a back seat to the classics.

Ambition

We all want to see Disney take big risks and do big things. From my view, they’re doing fine with that. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything quite as ambitious and crazy as Animal Kingdom (and the Safari more specifically). That’s a gigantic, super immersive, super expensive project that created an entirely new theme park effectively disconnected from any big IP. I mean, think about how crazy Safari is – recreating another continent’s ecosystem and filling it with animals? And then having a 15-minute ride through? I can’t imagine that getting green lit today. I don’t know how it got green lit then (but thank goodness it did). But overall, I still think they’re being pretty ambitious.

But it’s hard to look at, say, Galaxy’s Edge and think they’re playing it safe. That’s an incredibly deep, thoughtful, and interesting new land. I keep praising RotR, but the scope is huge and technically challenging. Sure, Star Wars is a slam dunk property, but they could have played it super easy and safe, focusing entirely on the classic characters and places. Instead of a unique land, they could have just played to the obvious hits. They were more creative and ambitious, which I appreciate (even if some don’t).

The Galactic Starcruiser is many things, but it’s not a “safe play” by Disney. Love it or hate it, that’s ambitious and creative.

Food

At least in the time I’ve been coming to Disney, the food has gotten better and more creative, at least at the parks themselves. (Signature dining may be a different deal, I’m not sure.) Satu'li Canteen, Docking Bay 7, Rontos Roasters, etc. There are lots of interesting in-park eats that go way beyond the hot dogs and hamburgers of times gone by. It’s vastly overpriced, but that’s a different discussion. Which leads me to…

Costs

I hate how expensive Disney is, but there’s a very good argument that it’s underpriced. Right now, it’s crowded as heck. There are only three ways to fix this: increase capacity (i.e. new rides or even a new gate), limit entry (forcibly keep reservations down and turn paying guests away), or raise prices. I’d love to see them expand capacity, but absent them doing that really, they can’t possibly charge less. If they did, the parks would be absolutely overflowing and they’d have to close them down. Right now, they’re charging what the market bears. It’s my fault and yours – we go, signaling that it’s worth what they’re charging. (And those of you who refuse to go at the current costs, well, that’s the point. More money from fewer guests is a win for Disney – and for the fans who can afford it.)

I’d even argue that the problem is more about the nature of society than anything Disney is doing.

Think about this – the US population is 55 million more people than it was even when Animal Kingdom was built in 1998! (Western Europe is up something like 32 million. Brazil is up more than 40 million.) Even ignoring foreign visitors and even if Disney only caters to the top 10% of the US population, that 5 million new potential guests.

And income is more unequally distributed, making the top end of the market relatively wealthier. To a large extent, our basic needs are well met. Particularly at the top of the income distribution – houses are bigger across the board, calorie consumption is up across the board. We’re just better off, particularly at the top. So while it’s true that Disney is becoming unaffordable to many families, there is still a huge and growing population of well-to-do (or well-to-do enough) families that, just have more money to dump into things like Disney. (Personally, Disney is an absolute stretch for me, even staying off site and using credit card points to pay my hotel. But guess what – I stretched. It was, at the end of the day, doable.)

Put another way, I’m not so sure it’s Disney changing as it is Disney reacting to society changing.

On a day-to-day basis, I can’t really complain about it being too expensive. I mean, I paid it, so I must think it’s “worth it” in some way. I’d like it to be less expensive and for it to be less crowded but how is that realistically going to happen?

But back to increasing capacity…

Penny pinching

I’m not sure what to think about penny pinching, i.e. not investing enough. On the one hand, they’ve created new lands like Galaxy’s Edge and Pandora. On the other hand, they’re still probably way behind in attraction creation to keep up with crowds. They could expand the pool of visitors, keep costs down by increasing supply, and build the next generation of Disney fans by investing more in the parks. I’d love more huge, ambitious projects, but at the very least it seems to me that AK and HS need a few core, high-capacity people eaters. (A true E-ticket people eater would be optimal!)

In short, I’d like to see Disney do more, but I’d probably always say that.

What about Genie+?

Eh, there’s not a good solution there. I don’t think Genie+ is necessarily the solution, but I can’t fault Disney too much for making a go of it. A lot of you like the Express Pass over at Universal, but that (to me) is the ultimate in “the rich get what they want and the others are out of luck” situation. I personally like that Genie+ is a somewhat more gentle approach. FastPass+ was great for power users like me (and most of you), but had its own issues.

In any event, I’m sure they’ll keep tinkering with it. We can harp on all the problems with it, but it certainly doesn’t ruin the vacation or anything. Hopefully they work out a better system.

What about the politics, wokeness, etc.?

I won’t touch that with a 10-foot pole. I know what I think, you know what you think. I’ll leave it at that.

What isn’t so magical

Downtime. Come on Disney. Pay the tech people whatever it takes and get those rides running smoothly and consistently. No excuse for that, IMO.

Honestly? And I know this is going to be controversial, but the biggest single “magic stealer” of all is the incessant, over-the-top amount of alcohol in the parks. I think it finally went over the line for me when, in AK, they asked me if I wanted liquor in my Dole whip. Seeing tons of guests with a beer in one hand and a toddler’s hand in the other was off-putting to me. I’ll start another thread at some point to discuss this. Again, I know I’m in the minority on that, but it was a bummer IMO.

So why the complaints?

I think it’s in our nature to complain, but I also think it reflects different types of guests. Many on here are multiple-times-per-year visitors, or at least every couple of years. Many are also moderate to luxury resort visitors. For you, I’d guess that two things are happening. First, you may be noticing the cast member deficiencies that are invisible to the average park going guest. I imagine that one might expect more out of the person attending to you at the Grand Floridian than I’m expecting from the guy loading PotC. Second, you’re there more often, so you’re comparing today’s hamburger to yesterday’s hamburger. For a “once every 3-5 years” guy, I’m comparing today’s hamburger to yesterday’s empty plate.

Conclusion

A good amount of what we’re complaining about – overcrowding, sky-high costs, lowered staff quality – is, I think, more a reflection of issues in society generally than Disney. That’s what you get with a larger population and incoming inequality that gives you a significant population of people with a lot of disposable income. Mix that with a hard hiring market and some Covid hangover and you end up millions of people willing to pay top dollar for what Disney does and Disney struggling to get quality staff.

In sum, I just don’t see any reason to think Disney has “lost the Magic” for most guests.

In fact, in terms of the core theme park experience – rides, lands, and food – I think Disney is better than ever.
We just got back after not being at WDW at all for four years, and staying on-site for the first time in 6 years. I'm pretty much in complete agreement with the OP.

I was getting nervous about the trip while reading all the "horror stories" here and all over social media. I thought those stories were waaaaaay overblown.

Totally agree with OP that biggest negative is attraction down-time. Too many rides were down for significant stretches. BTMRR was down more than half the day we were at MK. Remy was down constantly. This trackless technology that they have gone all-in with (Remy, ROTR, Runaway Railway, etc) is completely unreliable.

That said, there were far more positives. We still got to do just about everything we wanted to (including GOTG - twice). Cast Members, throughout WDW, are still wonderful. The new rides - when working - are fantastic.

Genie+ is definitely a work in progress.i feel we had good success with it at HS & MK. Let's see if they actually limit how much they sell. If they cap it, it could be much improved (although they will likely raise the price).
 
it's probably not possible to go much into it without violating board policy, google is your friend, or just read some comment sections on Disney related facebook posts.
Disney has made moves in recent years toward more inclusion. It's not just the recent feud with the governor. Here are a few (but not the only) instances:
  • Removing Trader Sam from the Jungle Cruise
  • Allowing cast members more inclusive options for appearance standards (beards, visible tattoos, cultural clothing options, and broader gender identity options)
  • Re-theming Splash Mountain away from Song of the South and into Princess and the Frog
  • Changing "Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls", into more inclusive language
There's more, but those are some of the bigger points.

Nope, I definitely don't need to google anything. I just didn't imagine that a complaint about "politics" and "wokeness" simply was referring to inclusion. Carry on.
 
Nope, I definitely don't need to google anything. I just didn't imagine that a complaint about "politics" and "wokeness" simply was referring to inclusion. Carry on.
In fairness, that's where complaints like that usually come from.
 
I'm glad that so many of still enjoy the magic. For my family it's not cost that bothers us as much as how complex it is to visit anymore. A theme park vacation shouldn't require this much work to enjoy. We just came back from a week long Cedar Point trip. It was a nice laid pack vacation, no booking rides, dinners or park reservations.
Agree regarding the complexity. Each new set of rules seems to entail one trip (or day) spent not understanding the new rules and missing out on something. Now, I’m not stupid but I find it hard to keep up with the changes and understand all the nuances of the rules.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!











facebook twitter
Top