tentaguasu
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2002
I just went back to Disney World after about six years away. As with most folks on this board, I’ve heard a lot of doom and gloom about where Disney is headed. I was worried.
Well, after two weeks there, my conclusion is that the magic is very much alive. In fact, for a visitor like me, all things considered, Disney is better than ever.
Here’s why:
The cast members
The cast members were, largely, just fine. Maybe not over the top magical, but mostly quite friendly and helpful. I did have a few that were not great, but I realize that Disney, like most businesses, is struggling to find workers. So for now, you staff with the people you can get, and I can’t blame Disney too much for the tough market for entry-level service work. In short, I don’t interpret somewhat lower cast member quality as a Disney failing as much as a “that’s where we are as a country right now” thing. (Personally, I think businesses need to buckle down and pay more – good old free market supply and demand works both ways – but that’s a different conversation.)
Imagineering
I can’t wrap my mind around anything other than being impressed with what they’re doing. From a sheer technical standpoint, some of the most recent stuff is, frankly, amazing. Rise of the Resistance was flat out breathtaking. The scope and creativity was off the charts, IMO. Flight of Passage was also very ambitious. It's hard to compare something like Haunted Mansion with RotR. I honestly love both but, nostalgia aside, I have a hard time thinking RotR comes out second in that comparison.
A few of the newer rides, while not necessarily technical marvels, are still just… fun. I can’t quite describe why, but Slinky Dog is a blast. Just fun and enjoyable. MMRR was more fun each time I rode it, full of little surprises and things I’d missed in past rides. I was worried about it being to heavily projection mapped, but (while it’s used a lot) it still worked quite well overall. Frozen Ever after is a nice ride. Nothing spectacular, but in my opinion it’s better than, say, Peter Pan.
Some of the new queues are works of art. Compare RotR or FoP – both of which have amazing, immersive queues – with, say, Soarin’, which is a disaster of a queue. The older rides are generally worse. Outside of Pirates, I can’t think of a queue on an older ride that even comes close to the modern stuff. I wasn’t a fan of Smugglers Run as a ride, but actually being inside a photorealistic copy of the Falcon was amazing and trippy. I also love how both RotR and FoP are turning the queue into a multi-stage drama all of its own. That’s smart and makes for a better experience.
I just don’t see how the more modern rides take a back seat to the classics.
Ambition
We all want to see Disney take big risks and do big things. From my view, they’re doing fine with that. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything quite as ambitious and crazy as Animal Kingdom (and the Safari more specifically). That’s a gigantic, super immersive, super expensive project that created an entirely new theme park effectively disconnected from any big IP. I mean, think about how crazy Safari is – recreating another continent’s ecosystem and filling it with animals? And then having a 15-minute ride through? I can’t imagine that getting green lit today. I don’t know how it got green lit then (but thank goodness it did). But overall, I still think they’re being pretty ambitious.
But it’s hard to look at, say, Galaxy’s Edge and think they’re playing it safe. That’s an incredibly deep, thoughtful, and interesting new land. I keep praising RotR, but the scope is huge and technically challenging. Sure, Star Wars is a slam dunk property, but they could have played it super easy and safe, focusing entirely on the classic characters and places. Instead of a unique land, they could have just played to the obvious hits. They were more creative and ambitious, which I appreciate (even if some don’t).
The Galactic Starcruiser is many things, but it’s not a “safe play” by Disney. Love it or hate it, that’s ambitious and creative.
Food
At least in the time I’ve been coming to Disney, the food has gotten better and more creative, at least at the parks themselves. (Signature dining may be a different deal, I’m not sure.) Satu'li Canteen, Docking Bay 7, Rontos Roasters, etc. There are lots of interesting in-park eats that go way beyond the hot dogs and hamburgers of times gone by. It’s vastly overpriced, but that’s a different discussion. Which leads me to…
Costs
I hate how expensive Disney is, but there’s a very good argument that it’s underpriced. Right now, it’s crowded as heck. There are only three ways to fix this: increase capacity (i.e. new rides or even a new gate), limit entry (forcibly keep reservations down and turn paying guests away), or raise prices. I’d love to see them expand capacity, but absent them doing that really, they can’t possibly charge less. If they did, the parks would be absolutely overflowing and they’d have to close them down. Right now, they’re charging what the market bears. It’s my fault and yours – we go, signaling that it’s worth what they’re charging. (And those of you who refuse to go at the current costs, well, that’s the point. More money from fewer guests is a win for Disney – and for the fans who can afford it.)
I’d even argue that the problem is more about the nature of society than anything Disney is doing.
Think about this – the US population is 55 million more people than it was even when Animal Kingdom was built in 1998! (Western Europe is up something like 32 million. Brazil is up more than 40 million.) Even ignoring foreign visitors and even if Disney only caters to the top 10% of the US population, that 5 million new potential guests.
And income is more unequally distributed, making the top end of the market relatively wealthier. To a large extent, our basic needs are well met. Particularly at the top of the income distribution – houses are bigger across the board, calorie consumption is up across the board. We’re just better off, particularly at the top. So while it’s true that Disney is becoming unaffordable to many families, there is still a huge and growing population of well-to-do (or well-to-do enough) families that, just have more money to dump into things like Disney. (Personally, Disney is an absolute stretch for me, even staying off site and using credit card points to pay my hotel. But guess what – I stretched. It was, at the end of the day, doable.)
Put another way, I’m not so sure it’s Disney changing as it is Disney reacting to society changing.
On a day-to-day basis, I can’t really complain about it being too expensive. I mean, I paid it, so I must think it’s “worth it” in some way. I’d like it to be less expensive and for it to be less crowded but how is that realistically going to happen?
But back to increasing capacity…
Penny pinching
I’m not sure what to think about penny pinching, i.e. not investing enough. On the one hand, they’ve created new lands like Galaxy’s Edge and Pandora. On the other hand, they’re still probably way behind in attraction creation to keep up with crowds. They could expand the pool of visitors, keep costs down by increasing supply, and build the next generation of Disney fans by investing more in the parks. I’d love more huge, ambitious projects, but at the very least it seems to me that AK and HS need a few core, high-capacity people eaters. (A true E-ticket people eater would be optimal!)
In short, I’d like to see Disney do more, but I’d probably always say that.
What about Genie+?
Eh, there’s not a good solution there. I don’t think Genie+ is necessarily the solution, but I can’t fault Disney too much for making a go of it. A lot of you like the Express Pass over at Universal, but that (to me) is the ultimate in “the rich get what they want and the others are out of luck” situation. I personally like that Genie+ is a somewhat more gentle approach. FastPass+ was great for power users like me (and most of you), but had its own issues.
In any event, I’m sure they’ll keep tinkering with it. We can harp on all the problems with it, but it certainly doesn’t ruin the vacation or anything. Hopefully they work out a better system.
What about the politics, wokeness, etc.?
I won’t touch that with a 10-foot pole. I know what I think, you know what you think. I’ll leave it at that.
What isn’t so magical
Downtime. Come on Disney. Pay the tech people whatever it takes and get those rides running smoothly and consistently. No excuse for that, IMO.
Honestly? And I know this is going to be controversial, but the biggest single “magic stealer” of all is the incessant, over-the-top amount of alcohol in the parks. I think it finally went over the line for me when, in AK, they asked me if I wanted liquor in my Dole whip. Seeing tons of guests with a beer in one hand and a toddler’s hand in the other was off-putting to me. I’ll start another thread at some point to discuss this. Again, I know I’m in the minority on that, but it was a bummer IMO.
So why the complaints?
I think it’s in our nature to complain, but I also think it reflects different types of guests. Many on here are multiple-times-per-year visitors, or at least every couple of years. Many are also moderate to luxury resort visitors. For you, I’d guess that two things are happening. First, you may be noticing the cast member deficiencies that are invisible to the average park going guest. I imagine that one might expect more out of the person attending to you at the Grand Floridian than I’m expecting from the guy loading PotC. Second, you’re there more often, so you’re comparing today’s hamburger to yesterday’s hamburger. For a “once every 3-5 years” guy, I’m comparing today’s hamburger to yesterday’s empty plate.
Conclusion
A good amount of what we’re complaining about – overcrowding, sky-high costs, lowered staff quality – is, I think, more a reflection of issues in society generally than Disney. That’s what you get with a larger population and incoming inequality that gives you a significant population of people with a lot of disposable income. Mix that with a hard hiring market and some Covid hangover and you end up millions of people willing to pay top dollar for what Disney does and Disney struggling to get quality staff.
In sum, I just don’t see any reason to think Disney has “lost the Magic” for most guests.
In fact, in terms of the core theme park experience – rides, lands, and food – I think Disney is better than ever.
Well, after two weeks there, my conclusion is that the magic is very much alive. In fact, for a visitor like me, all things considered, Disney is better than ever.
Here’s why:
The cast members
The cast members were, largely, just fine. Maybe not over the top magical, but mostly quite friendly and helpful. I did have a few that were not great, but I realize that Disney, like most businesses, is struggling to find workers. So for now, you staff with the people you can get, and I can’t blame Disney too much for the tough market for entry-level service work. In short, I don’t interpret somewhat lower cast member quality as a Disney failing as much as a “that’s where we are as a country right now” thing. (Personally, I think businesses need to buckle down and pay more – good old free market supply and demand works both ways – but that’s a different conversation.)
Imagineering
I can’t wrap my mind around anything other than being impressed with what they’re doing. From a sheer technical standpoint, some of the most recent stuff is, frankly, amazing. Rise of the Resistance was flat out breathtaking. The scope and creativity was off the charts, IMO. Flight of Passage was also very ambitious. It's hard to compare something like Haunted Mansion with RotR. I honestly love both but, nostalgia aside, I have a hard time thinking RotR comes out second in that comparison.
A few of the newer rides, while not necessarily technical marvels, are still just… fun. I can’t quite describe why, but Slinky Dog is a blast. Just fun and enjoyable. MMRR was more fun each time I rode it, full of little surprises and things I’d missed in past rides. I was worried about it being to heavily projection mapped, but (while it’s used a lot) it still worked quite well overall. Frozen Ever after is a nice ride. Nothing spectacular, but in my opinion it’s better than, say, Peter Pan.
Some of the new queues are works of art. Compare RotR or FoP – both of which have amazing, immersive queues – with, say, Soarin’, which is a disaster of a queue. The older rides are generally worse. Outside of Pirates, I can’t think of a queue on an older ride that even comes close to the modern stuff. I wasn’t a fan of Smugglers Run as a ride, but actually being inside a photorealistic copy of the Falcon was amazing and trippy. I also love how both RotR and FoP are turning the queue into a multi-stage drama all of its own. That’s smart and makes for a better experience.
I just don’t see how the more modern rides take a back seat to the classics.
Ambition
We all want to see Disney take big risks and do big things. From my view, they’re doing fine with that. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything quite as ambitious and crazy as Animal Kingdom (and the Safari more specifically). That’s a gigantic, super immersive, super expensive project that created an entirely new theme park effectively disconnected from any big IP. I mean, think about how crazy Safari is – recreating another continent’s ecosystem and filling it with animals? And then having a 15-minute ride through? I can’t imagine that getting green lit today. I don’t know how it got green lit then (but thank goodness it did). But overall, I still think they’re being pretty ambitious.
But it’s hard to look at, say, Galaxy’s Edge and think they’re playing it safe. That’s an incredibly deep, thoughtful, and interesting new land. I keep praising RotR, but the scope is huge and technically challenging. Sure, Star Wars is a slam dunk property, but they could have played it super easy and safe, focusing entirely on the classic characters and places. Instead of a unique land, they could have just played to the obvious hits. They were more creative and ambitious, which I appreciate (even if some don’t).
The Galactic Starcruiser is many things, but it’s not a “safe play” by Disney. Love it or hate it, that’s ambitious and creative.
Food
At least in the time I’ve been coming to Disney, the food has gotten better and more creative, at least at the parks themselves. (Signature dining may be a different deal, I’m not sure.) Satu'li Canteen, Docking Bay 7, Rontos Roasters, etc. There are lots of interesting in-park eats that go way beyond the hot dogs and hamburgers of times gone by. It’s vastly overpriced, but that’s a different discussion. Which leads me to…
Costs
I hate how expensive Disney is, but there’s a very good argument that it’s underpriced. Right now, it’s crowded as heck. There are only three ways to fix this: increase capacity (i.e. new rides or even a new gate), limit entry (forcibly keep reservations down and turn paying guests away), or raise prices. I’d love to see them expand capacity, but absent them doing that really, they can’t possibly charge less. If they did, the parks would be absolutely overflowing and they’d have to close them down. Right now, they’re charging what the market bears. It’s my fault and yours – we go, signaling that it’s worth what they’re charging. (And those of you who refuse to go at the current costs, well, that’s the point. More money from fewer guests is a win for Disney – and for the fans who can afford it.)
I’d even argue that the problem is more about the nature of society than anything Disney is doing.
Think about this – the US population is 55 million more people than it was even when Animal Kingdom was built in 1998! (Western Europe is up something like 32 million. Brazil is up more than 40 million.) Even ignoring foreign visitors and even if Disney only caters to the top 10% of the US population, that 5 million new potential guests.
And income is more unequally distributed, making the top end of the market relatively wealthier. To a large extent, our basic needs are well met. Particularly at the top of the income distribution – houses are bigger across the board, calorie consumption is up across the board. We’re just better off, particularly at the top. So while it’s true that Disney is becoming unaffordable to many families, there is still a huge and growing population of well-to-do (or well-to-do enough) families that, just have more money to dump into things like Disney. (Personally, Disney is an absolute stretch for me, even staying off site and using credit card points to pay my hotel. But guess what – I stretched. It was, at the end of the day, doable.)
Put another way, I’m not so sure it’s Disney changing as it is Disney reacting to society changing.
On a day-to-day basis, I can’t really complain about it being too expensive. I mean, I paid it, so I must think it’s “worth it” in some way. I’d like it to be less expensive and for it to be less crowded but how is that realistically going to happen?
But back to increasing capacity…
Penny pinching
I’m not sure what to think about penny pinching, i.e. not investing enough. On the one hand, they’ve created new lands like Galaxy’s Edge and Pandora. On the other hand, they’re still probably way behind in attraction creation to keep up with crowds. They could expand the pool of visitors, keep costs down by increasing supply, and build the next generation of Disney fans by investing more in the parks. I’d love more huge, ambitious projects, but at the very least it seems to me that AK and HS need a few core, high-capacity people eaters. (A true E-ticket people eater would be optimal!)
In short, I’d like to see Disney do more, but I’d probably always say that.
What about Genie+?
Eh, there’s not a good solution there. I don’t think Genie+ is necessarily the solution, but I can’t fault Disney too much for making a go of it. A lot of you like the Express Pass over at Universal, but that (to me) is the ultimate in “the rich get what they want and the others are out of luck” situation. I personally like that Genie+ is a somewhat more gentle approach. FastPass+ was great for power users like me (and most of you), but had its own issues.
In any event, I’m sure they’ll keep tinkering with it. We can harp on all the problems with it, but it certainly doesn’t ruin the vacation or anything. Hopefully they work out a better system.
What about the politics, wokeness, etc.?
I won’t touch that with a 10-foot pole. I know what I think, you know what you think. I’ll leave it at that.
What isn’t so magical
Downtime. Come on Disney. Pay the tech people whatever it takes and get those rides running smoothly and consistently. No excuse for that, IMO.
Honestly? And I know this is going to be controversial, but the biggest single “magic stealer” of all is the incessant, over-the-top amount of alcohol in the parks. I think it finally went over the line for me when, in AK, they asked me if I wanted liquor in my Dole whip. Seeing tons of guests with a beer in one hand and a toddler’s hand in the other was off-putting to me. I’ll start another thread at some point to discuss this. Again, I know I’m in the minority on that, but it was a bummer IMO.
So why the complaints?
I think it’s in our nature to complain, but I also think it reflects different types of guests. Many on here are multiple-times-per-year visitors, or at least every couple of years. Many are also moderate to luxury resort visitors. For you, I’d guess that two things are happening. First, you may be noticing the cast member deficiencies that are invisible to the average park going guest. I imagine that one might expect more out of the person attending to you at the Grand Floridian than I’m expecting from the guy loading PotC. Second, you’re there more often, so you’re comparing today’s hamburger to yesterday’s hamburger. For a “once every 3-5 years” guy, I’m comparing today’s hamburger to yesterday’s empty plate.
Conclusion
A good amount of what we’re complaining about – overcrowding, sky-high costs, lowered staff quality – is, I think, more a reflection of issues in society generally than Disney. That’s what you get with a larger population and incoming inequality that gives you a significant population of people with a lot of disposable income. Mix that with a hard hiring market and some Covid hangover and you end up millions of people willing to pay top dollar for what Disney does and Disney struggling to get quality staff.
In sum, I just don’t see any reason to think Disney has “lost the Magic” for most guests.
In fact, in terms of the core theme park experience – rides, lands, and food – I think Disney is better than ever.
