Is it wrong to spank your child?

[Goobergal99]

and if they don't? are you going to report them for child abuse?

No, because as you said yourself that is my childs choice and she has a right to raise her children how she sees fit as well. However, if my grandkids had bruises all over there bodys and I suspected that this was becoming more then a spank on the behind every once and while (which i would tell her I do not agree with) then I would turn her in, to protect my grandchildren.

 

[Sandy22]

 

[sunni]

No, because as you said yourself that is my childs choice and she has a right to raise her children how she sees fit as well. However, if my grandkids had bruises all over there bodys and I suspected that this was becoming more then a spank on the behind every once and while (which i would tell her I do not agree with) then I would turn her in, to protect my grandchildren.

My question was for those in the "spanking = abuse" camp. Without going back to read all your other posts I have to believe A) You don't think spanking is abusive or B) it is abusive but you would make exceptions for your children (they can raise their children how they see fit, but no one else should). I tried to do a search but had some trouble, and there are lots of pages to read through here, so I'm guessing A.

 

[sunni]

I know that my children won't spank their kids. DS12 feels distraught enough when he sees other kids being hit by their parents (I'm telling you...we've seen it numerous times at Disney and Walmart ) And he feels really bad for his friends that are raised in that kind of environment. I'm 100% confident he would never marry a woman who believed in spanking. It just goes completely against our core family values.

I'm not saying this affects all spanked kids but I've observed that kids who are spanked are more likely to hit their siblings and their pets. My DS is so gentle with our dogs...he doesn't swat them even when they've done something really bad (like destroying his favourite toy). It's just not in his nature due to the values of respect for other beings that he was raised in.

My daughter is distraught when a person raises their voice at their spouse, therefore by your analogy she will never yell at her husband and I can be 100% confident she won't marry a man that will ever raise his voice at her. Wow, this seeing into the future is easier than I thought!

My kids don't hit dogs either. But a friend of mine that was never spanked got a huge kick one summer out of cutting open and torturing a live toad... who knows what else he did.

 

[Sandy22]

My daughter is distraught when a person raises their voice at their spouse, therefore by your analogy she will never yell at her husband and I can be 100% confident she won't marry a man that will ever raise his voice at her. Wow, this seeing into the future is easier than I thought!

Will you teach your daughter never to put up with a man who hits her? Of course you will. In my family we don't distinguish between hitting adults and hitting children - both are equally wrong. Spanking and abuse are points along a continuum of violence. At one end might be a slight swat on the behind and at the other end is extreme abuse. In the same way you'll teach your child where to draw the line, I'll teach my children where our family draws the line. In my family, we respect each other, respect human rights and do not include violence as a form of discipline. It works for my family just as whatever you do works for your family. I'm just taking a different line than you are. Another DISer's line might include spanking with a belt whereas another pro-spanker might consider that as crossing her own abuse line.

 

[Sandy22]

 

[Sandy22]

From Alternatives to Spanking, Nine Things you can Do, By Kathryn Kvols


Research confirms what many parents instinctively feel when they don’t like to spank their child but they don’t know what else to do. Research from Dr. Murray Strauss at the Family Research Laboratory affirms that spanking teaches children to use acts of aggression and violence to solve their problems. It only teaches and perpetuates more violence, the very thing our society is so concerned about. This research further shows that children who have been spanked are more prone to low self-esteem, depression and accept lower paying jobs as adults. So, what do you do instead?

1. Get Calm
First, if you feel angry and out of control and you want to spank or slap your child, leave the situation if you can. Take a time-out for yourself and get quiet. In that quiet time you will often find an alternative or solution to the problem. Sometimes parents lose it because they are under a lot of stress. Dinner is boiling over, the kids are fighting, the phone is ringing and your child drops the can of peas and you lose it. If you can’t leave the situation, then mentally step back and count to ten.

2.Take Time for Yourself
Parents are more prone to use spanking when they haven’t had any time to themselves and they feel depleted and hurried. So, it is important for parents to take some time for themselves to exercise, read, take a walk or pray.

3. Be Kind but Firm
Another frustrating situation where parents tend to spank is when your child hasn’t listened to your repeated requests to behave. Finally, you spank to get your child to act appropriately. Another solution in these situations is to get down on your child’s level, make eye contact, touch him gently and tell him, in a short, kind but firm phrase, what it is you want him to do.

4. Give Choices
Giving your child a choice is an effective alternative to spanking. If she is playing with her food at the table ask, "Would you like to stop playing with your food or would you like to leave the table?” If the child continues to play with her food, you use kind but firm action by helping her down from the table. Then tell her that she can return to the table when she is ready to eat her food without playing in it.

5. Use Logical Consequences
Consequences that are logically related to the behavior help teach children responsibility. For example, your child breaks a neighbor’s window and you punish him by spanking him. What does he learn about the situation? He may learn to never do that again, but he also learns that he needs to hide his mistakes, blame it on someone else, lie, or simply not get caught. He may decide that he is bad or feel anger and revenge toward the parent who spanked him. When you spank a child, he may behave because he is afraid to get hit again. But do you want your child to behave because he is afraid of you or because he respects you?
Compare that situation to a child who breaks a neighbor’s window and his parent says, “I see you’ve broken the window; what will you do to repair it?” using a kind but firm tone of voice. The child decides to mow the neighbor’s lawn and wash his car several times to repay the cost of breaking the window. What does the child learn in this situation? That mistakes are an inevitable part of life and it isn’t so important that he made the mistake but that he takes responsibilty to repair the mistake. The focus is taken off the mistake and put on taking responsibility for repairing it. The child feels no anger or revenge toward his parent. And most importantly the child’s self-esteem is not damaged.

6. Do Make-Ups
When children break agreements, parents tend to want to punish them. An alternative is to have your child do a make-up. A make-up is something that people do to put themselves back into integrity with the person they broke the agreement with. For example, several boys were at a sleep-over at Larry’s home. His father requested that they not leave the house after midnight. The boys broke their agreement. The father was angry and punished them by telling them they couldn’t have a sleep-over for two months. Larry and his friends became angry, sullen and uncooperative as a result of the punishment. The father realized what he had done. He apologized for punishing them and told them how betrayed he felt and discussed the importance of keeping their word. He then asked the boys for a make-up. They decided to cut the lumber that the father needed to have cut in their backyard. The boys became excited and enthusiastic about the project and later kept their word on future sleep-overs.

7. Withdraw from Conflict
Children who sass back at parents may provoke a parent to slap. In this situation, it is best if you withdraw from the situation immediately. Do not leave the room in anger or defeat. Calmly say, “I’ll be in the next room when you want to talk more respectfully."

8. Use kind but firm action
Instead of smacking an infant or child's hand or bottom when she touches something she isn’t supposed to, kindly but firmly pick her up and take her to the next room. Offer her a toy or another item to distract her and say, “You can try again later.” You may have to take her out several times if she is persistent.

9. Inform Children Ahead of Time
A child’s temper tantrum can easily set a parent off. Children frequently throw tantrums when they feel uninformed or powerless in a situation. Instead of telling your child he has to leave his friend’s house at a moment’s notice, tell him that you will be leaving in five minutes. This allows the child to complete what he was in the process of doing.
Aggression is an obvious form of perpetuating violence in society. A more subtle form of this is spanking because it takes it’s toll on a child’s self-esteem, dampening his enthusiasm and causing him to be rebellious and uncooperative. Consider for a moment the vision of a family that knows how to win cooperation and creatively solve their problems without using force or violence. The alternatives are limitless and the results are calmer parents who feel more supported.

 

[Sandy22]

For the OP - some alternatives.

Taken from: http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/...king.morph.html

Spanking is one of the most controversial discipline methods. On one side of the debate are parents who believe it is all right to spank their children. On the other side are those who think that children should never be spanked. Somewhere in the middle are parents who believe that spanking should only be used in particular instances (e.g., when the child runs into the street). Part of the reason for the debate is that parents and experts often define spanking differently. To some, spanking means "slapping a child on the buttocks" (Straus, 1995, p. 5), while others consider spanking a generic term for any corporal punishment that does not cause an injury, such as slapping a child's hand for touching something forbidden or dangerous.

The purpose of this digest is to explore some of the reasons for spanking (using the general definition of any corporal punishment that does not cause an injury), to examine the effectiveness of spanking, and to suggest alternative discipline methods.

Reasons For Spanking
While many adults would argue that hitting people is wrong, spanking children continues to be used as an acceptable form of discipline because many parents think spanking will teach children not to do things that are forbidden, stop them quickly when they are being irritating, and encourage them to do what they should (Leach, 1996). Some parents also believe that the nonphysical forms of discipline, like time-out, do not work (Samalin & Whitney, 1995). Spanking is also a practice used more in some areas of the country than others (primarily in the southern United States) and in some cultures more than others (Flynn, 1996; Scarr, 1995).

Effectiveness Of Spanking
While spanking may relieve a parent's frustration and stop misbehavior briefly, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics (1995), researchers suggest that spanking may be the least effective discipline method. To test this hypothesis, researchers surveyed parents, with the assumption that if spanking worked, children who were spanked would learn to behave better over time so that they would need punishing less frequently (Leach, 1996). However, the results showed that families who start spanking before their children are a year old are just as likely to spank their 4-year-old children as often as families who do not start spanking until later. Thus, children appear not to be learning the lessons parents are trying to teach by spanking.

Spanking may be ineffective because it does not teach an alternative behavior (American Academy of Pediatrics, 1995). In fact, children usually feel resentful, humiliated, and helpless after being spanked (Samalin & Whitney, 1995). The primary lesson they learn appears to be that they should try harder not to get caught.

Spanking also sends the wrong message to children (Samalin & Whitney, 1995). Spanking communicates that hitting is an acceptable way to solve problems, and that it is all right for a big person to strike a smaller one. In addition, when children are spanked, they may know that they have done something wrong, but in many cases, they are too young to understand the lesson. It is a very difficult message for any adult or child to understand: "I hurt you because I don't want you hurt."

Finally, when spanking is the primary discipline method used, it may have some potentially harmful long-term effects such as increasing the chances of misbehavior, aggression, violent or criminal behavior; impaired learning; and depression (Straus, 1995).

Alternatives To Spanking
One reason parents spank is that they are not aware of other effective strategies for changing children's undesirable behavior. To be effective, discipline that is appropriate for a child's age should be used. Ineffective methods are often based on unrealistic expectations about what children are capable of learning. Parents may find the following age-appropriate discipline suggestions useful alternatives to spanking.

Suggestions For Parents Of Infants
Infants respond impulsively to many situations without a real understanding of their surroundings and abilities. Spanking will only cause fear and anxiety in children who do not yet understand such concepts as consequences and danger.

When there is danger, grasp an infant's hand instead of slapping (Leach, 1996).


When the infant is holding something that you do not want him to have, trade a toy instead of forcing the item from him (Leach, 1996). He will only hold on tighter if you try to take something away.


Baby-proof your living space so that there is nothing dangerous or breakable in reach (Ruben, 1996; Samalin & Whitney, 1995).


Leave the room if you feel your temper flaring, making sure that the baby is in a safe place like a playpen (Leach, 1996).


Suggestions For Parents Of Toddlers
Disciplining toddlers requires a tremendous investment of time, energy, and patience, so it is important to find effective and appropriate techniques (Ruben, 1996). For example, it will not be effective to tell toddlers not to play with items that are dangerous, such as the stove, because they do not understand the consequences (Samalin & Whitney, 1995). Spanking, however, will not clarify the consequences either. Instead, children may learn from spanking that "I'm a bad person," rather than "I did a bad thing." You must use discipline methods consistently or your child will learn that you are not serious.

Make sure the environment is safe by removing any harmful dangerous objects (Samalin & Whitney, 1995). It is natural for toddlers to want to explore their environment. Always supervise toddlers; it is unrealistic to expect a toddler to play safely without adult supervision for more than a few minutes (Leach, 1996).


Avoid direct clashes with toddlers, which will only make both of you angry and frustrated. Instead, try a diversion or distraction (Leach, 1996). Many problem situations can be eased with something funny or unexpected, such as tickling a mildly upset child (Ruben, 1996).


Use your size and strength to eliminate situations (Leach, 1996). Simply lift a child out of the bath or carry a child who refuses to walk.


If you start to deliver a slap, divert it to your knee or a table (Leach, 1996). This sound will interrupt the behavior without hitting the child.


Suggestions For Parents Of Older Children

If your child refuses to listen to you, crouch down to his level, grasp his arms firmly so he cannot avoid looking at you, and then talk calmly (Leach, 1996).


Since spanking does not occur in calm, rational moments (Samalin & Whitney, 1995), it is especially important to control your anger to prevent "losing it." You can walk away, hit a pillow, call a friend, or write a note. Once you have cooled down, you will probably feel less inclined to spank.


If you feel you must punish your children, make sure the punishment is logically related to the incident so that they can learn the lesson you want to teach (Leach, 1996). For example, if your child rides her bike onto a road that is forbidden, take the bike away for the afternoon. This punishment teaches her that roads can be dangerous, that you are concerned for her safety, and that you will enforce safety rules as long as they are needed. Taking away TV, dessert, or spanking will not teach bike safety.


Introduce the appropriate use of time-out (Ruben, 1996). Time-out used as a punishment is controversial. When used to allow a few minutes for a child--and a parent--to regain control of their emotions, it can be effective in stopping a cycle of inappropriate behavior.

Suggestions For All Ages
Support good behavior. Hugs and praise will go a long way (Ruben, 1996).
Try an ounce of prevention (Ruben, 1996). Effective discipline means announcing clear, simple family rules (the fewer, the better) at a time when children are calm and listening.
Try to understand the feelings behind your child's actions (Ruben, 1996). Ask older children why they are angry. When an infant cries, ask yourself: Does she want to be held? Is her diaper wet? Is she hungry?
Share your change of heart (Ruben, 1996). If you have spanked your children in the past, but have decided that you will stop, talk to your children about your decision. This lesson can be valuable for your whole family.

Conclusion
The question of whether or not parents should spank their children is not easy to answer. However, spanking is only one of the factors that needs to be considered in the overall discipline process. In deciding how to discipline their children, parents should first ask, "what do I want to accomplish?" If the answer is "teach my children how to make good choices on their own," spanking may not be an issue.

For More Information
American Academy of Pediatrics. (1995). CARING FOR YOUR SCHOOL-AGE CHILD: AGES 5-12. New York: Bantam Books.

Flynn, Clifton. (1996). Regional differences in spanking experiences and attitudes: A comparison of northeastern and southern college students. JOURNAL OF FAMILY VIOLENCE, 11 (1), 59-80. EJ 523 518.

Leach, Penelope. (1996, July 9). SPANKING: A SHORTCUT TO NOWHERE WWW document. URL http://cnet.unb.ca/corg/ca/e/pages/prevention^cruelty/spank.htm

NoSpan King Page. URL http://www.cei.net/~rcox/nospan.html

Ruben, David. (1996, September). Should you spank? PARENTING, 136-141.

Samalin, Nancy, & Whitney, Catherine. (1995, May). What's wrong with spanking? PARENTS, 70 (5), 35-36.

Scarr, Sandra. (1995, February 8). SOUTHERN PARENTS SPANK CHILDREN MORE THAN NORTHERN PARENTS, STUDY FINDS. WWW document. URL gopher://minerva.acc.Virginia.EDU:7...eb1995/spanking

Straus, Murray. (1995). BEATING THE DEVIL OUT OF THEM: CORPORAL PUNISHMENT IN AMERICAN FAMILIES. New York: Lexington Books.

 

[sunni]

I have a very serious question for those that are in the "spanking = abuse" camp: If your children choose to spank their own children someday, will you turn them in for child abuse? You have already stated it IS abuse... so will you stand by and watch your grandchild be abused? (Using the "my child won't spank" doesn't answer the question, you can't know what your child will or won't do as an adult). I'm sure you will try to reason with them first, but they will do what they want as adults... honestly, what would you do if they didn't see it your way?

That was the question asked and never answered. You CANNOT know the future and know that ALL your children and in-laws won't ever spank; people have been known to change their opinion regarding child rearing techniques after they have been married and had children. So far, no one has said they would turn in their own children for swatting their kids bottoms. Seems like either it isn't abuse after all or people are willing to look the other way if it were their own family.

 

[N.Bailey]

And what about the argument that not spanking will result in a society of criminals. Not so. I challenge you to go to any prison and see how many were not spanked! Physical punishment is clearly linked to future criminal behavior. No surprise since spanking hinders development of empathy, remorse, and compassion.

I am constantly reading various true life crime story books. I read EVERY word in the Peterson transcripts and paid about $100.00 to do so online too. I follow EVERY major case that's on the news and I love to watch Court TV's trials during the day and they're forensic shows at night. I am a member of Court TV's message boards too where thousands of people who have similar issues dissect the various cases.

I challenge you to back up what you've said here? Prove that MOST inmates are spanked (not beaten, simply spanked) as a child.

Just for the record, you don't believe in God do you? I'd imagine if you did, you'd know that he tells us to spank our children. (you really don't have to answer this questions - it's of a personal nature, but I simply wanted to toss the thought out there)

 

[glass-slipper]

That was the question asked and never answered. You CANNOT know the future and know that ALL your children and in-laws won't ever spank; people have been known to change their opinion regarding child rearing techniques after they have been married and had children. So far, no one has said they would turn in their own children for swatting their kids bottoms. Seems like either it isn't abuse after all or people are willing to look the other way if it were their own family.

Maybe everyone who thinks it's abuse is asleep.

 

[Sandy22]

 

[Sandy22]

 

[N.Bailey]

That's stereotyping. I'm not calling all pro-spankers religious fanatics. The bible tells us to do more than just merely swat on the bottom. I would guess even most of the pro-spankers here wouldn't go that far. I don't think religion can be used as an argument here. Basic human rights supercede religious freedom. Women all over the world (especially in certain countries) thank GOD for that!

Oh and for the record, I most certainly do believe in God.

1st off, I see you choose to ignore the entire 1st part of my post, so I'll post it here again and await your response

I am constantly reading various true life crime story books. I read EVERY word in the Peterson transcripts and paid about $100.00 to do so online too. I follow EVERY major case that's on the news and I love to watch Court TV's trials during the day and they're forensic shows at night. I am a member of Court TV's message boards too where thousands of people who have similar issues dissect the various cases.

I challenge you to back up what you've said here? Prove that MOST inmates are spanked (not beaten, simply spanked) as a child.

Onto God then. How is it that you believe your opinion is superior to his if you believe in him? The question was really rhetorical and I never expected a response, but beings you gave one, well......

I'm a Christian too and I believe that NOTHING supersedes God's word.

My opinions where spankings are concerned are not religiously based however.

 

[Sandy22]

 

[Sandy22]

 

[N.Bailey]

Shame shame shame....what about God's word about gossiping. I don't mean to be disrespectul but what you said to me is very hypocritical. Based on that alone, I will not engage in a religious discussion with you.

That's what I thought, the old standby, I can't answer your questions. I can't back up what I say (I just hope people will buy it), so now I'll pretend that you said something offensive to get myself out of this jam.

I don't even begin to get what you're saying I'm engaging in gossip? I have not "GOSSIPED" about a single thing. Unless of course you care to point that out to me too? I suppose however, you'd use the old standby, I can't and I'm running.

 

[N.Bailey]

First of all, you and Sunni make a great tag team! Talk about getting miffed if your questions aren't answered right away. Have a little patience people! Hope you have more patience with your families. You seem to enjoy reading (the Peterson transcripts ) Anyway, here's some reading for you to back up what I've said. I challenge you to visit your local library and pick up these books (or look for them on-line). Then you can come back to me and explain why you believe that most inmates were raised in loving non-violent homes.

Agnew, R. 1983. "Physical Punishment and Delinquency." Youth and Society 15: 225-236.

Levinson, D. 1981. "Physical Punishment of Children and Wife Beating in Cross-Cultural Perspective." Child Abuse and Neglect 5: 193-195.

Fisher, Seymour and Rhoda L. Fisher. 1986. What We Really Know About Child Rearing. Jason Aronson. (esp. pp. 37-61).

Pitzer, Ronald. February, 1993. Some Arguments Against Physical Punishment. Minnesota Extension Service, University of Minnesota.

Straus, Murray A. March, 1993. Ten Myths About Spanking Children. Family Research Laboratory, University of New Hampshire.

Carson, Barbara. October 1989. "Review of Research on Physical Punishment," National Conference on Child Abuse and Neglect, Salt Lake City, UT.

Pitzer, Ronald. December, 1992. Physical Punishment of Children, Some Research Conclusions. Minnesota Extension Service, University of Minnesota.

Straus, Murray A. 1994. Beating the Devil Out of Them: Corporal Punishment in American Families and Its Effects on Children. Lexington Books.

Yeah, Sunni and I do make a great tag team. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading her posts.

2nd of all, I NEVER once said that inmates came from a loving caring home. Why do you feel that because a parent smacks a child's bottom that they don't come from a loving caring home?

You did not say that inmates come from abusive homes (read back). You said they were smacked as a child. I'll grant you that MANY were abused as a child, but beat and smacked have absolutely no correlation to one another.

Here is exactly what you said

And what about the argument that not spanking will result in a society of criminals. Not so. I challenge you to go to any prison and see how many were not spanked! Physical punishment is clearly linked to future criminal behavior. No surprise since spanking hinders development of empathy, remorse, and compassion.

 

[N.Bailey]

First of all, you and Sunni make a great tag team! Talk about getting miffed if your questions aren't answered right away. Have a little patience people! Hope you have more patience with your families.

Just for the record, you did respond to the post in question. You did not answer the question at that time, nor did you said you'd respond to it in a bit. It's logical to conclude that you blew that part of my response off.

and....

You still didn't back up what you said.

 

[Sandy22]