Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[piccolopat]

Let's see, since 2010:

New Fantasy Land
Avatar Land
Disney Springs
Frozen ride (yeah yeah..)
Additional capacity to TSM and Soarin (cutting our wait times in half does matter)
Grand Floridian and Polynesian Vacation Club options

And now in a month they'll (almost assuredly) announce a huge expansion at DHS.

I just don't get the idea Disney is just resting on its laurels. Doesn't match reality. It seems some would think they need to rebuild the 4 parks every couple years or else they're doing nothing. That's not how it works.

To those of us who have no interest in DVC, adding more and more DVC options is totally irrelevant. We enjoy the resorts but it is the parks that draw us to Florida. Because of the deterioration of the park offerings, we have cut back on our trips. Disney has to do more than cater to the meet and greet crowds and get back to rides and attractions that everyone can enjoy. While meet and greets are popular with some visitors, they have no allure to many others.

 

[WillJenDisney]

To those of us who have no interest in DVC, adding more and more DVC options is totally irrelevant. We enjoy the resorts but it is the parks that draw us to Florida. Because of the deterioration of the park offerings, we have cut back on our trips. Disney has to do more than cater to the meet and greet crowds and get back to rides and attractions that everyone can enjoy. While meet and greets are popular with some visitors, they have no allure to many others.

I understand that from non-DVCers, and I didn't buy at either of those new locations, but they are new things. And even if you take them away, there's plenty new in the past couple years and upcoming. Enough that I don't get acting like Disney isn't doing anything.

 

[WillJenDisney]

This isn't intended as a shot at those who visit Disney World over and over again (I'm one of them), but it seems to me the only people I see complain about what WDW is doing are those who are there all the time. They can't possibly keep regularly changing the experience dramatically at the cost of billions in order to satisfy the most extreme of us that are fans of the place. Every person I know who goes for the first time or only every so often absolutely loves it. Those of us who go all the time seem to have created some absurdly unrealistic vision for what should change, how often, and at what cost.

 

[piccolopat]

NFL is very solid IMO. A new kids coaster, a new boat ride, great new theming and a great restaurant. If that's not enough, then expectations are way out of control.

I was actually expecting much more. Since there was already a Little Mermaid attraction in DHS, why couldn't they add new rides for some of the more recent films like Tangled, Brave and Princess and the Frog? Even adding rides for some of the older films like Pocahontas, Tarzan and Aladdin would have been welcomed. By the way, we actually do like the new Little Mermaid ride so this is not a criticism on that addition. We also think there could have been more shops and some other eating options. For example, if Princess and the Frog was added they could have a New Orleans styled restaurant.

 

[Dfan79]

They don't have to spend extra to build things quickly, because you only do that when you're behind and desperate. They're not behind, and they aren't even in danger of being behind. They're 8 steps ahead of the competition, and will continue to be by doing the things they've been doing and continue to do. Incremental changes are all that's needed when WDW is already an A+++. You don't have to overhaul that regularly (though DHS finally needs one, and its coming).

They aren't doing A+++ jobs though. They've been leaving wide open spaces in their parks vacant for years. 3 out of 4 of their parks have looked unfinished. If they aren't careful people will decide to go on just Universal trips in the future. I wouldn't do that, but there are plenty of others who would.

All I ask is that they finish Hollywood and Animal before I'm an old fart.

 

[WillJenDisney]

They aren't doing A+++ jobs though. They've been leaving wide open spaces in their parks vacant for years. 3 out of 4 of their parks have looked unfinished. If they aren't careful people will decide to go on just Universal trips in the future. All I ask is that they finish Hollywood and Animal before I'm an old fart.

I get your feelings, I want that stuff sooner too. And DHS is definitely in need of the upcoming overhaul. But from a business perspective, it makes no sense for Disney to throw money away speeding things up. And since WDW is head and shoulders above the rest, IMO, I don't think they need to, and are in no danger of needing to. HP is great, but it's not like WDW attendance shrunk as a result. And if tough times hit, WDW wouldn't suffer any more or less than US.

 

[Andrew015]

NFL is very solid IMO. A new kids coaster, a new boat ride, great new theming and a great restaurant. If that's not enough, then expectations are way out of control.

IMO, it's mediocre at best. When one of the most common compliments is "how well themed the wait queues are"... you know there's just not much substance to be had. Seven Dwarfs and Be Our Guest are obviously the highlights. One entails waiting 120 minutes for a 90-second kiddie coaster. The other requires ADR's 6 months in advance to even set foot in the place for good theming and average food. And if by boat ride, you mean Little Mermaid... it's actually a very basic Omnimover ride. Nothing to really get worked up over (and in my experience, always a 5 minute walk-on ride, which is indicative of the quality).

Again, while NFL doesn't knock my socks off, I appreciate it for what it is. But to laude it as some sort of spectacular addition is crazy talk. I personally feel that some were so starved for something... ANYTHING new after a decade + long drought of NOTHING new from 2000 on, that this was welcomed with incredibly open arms despite its misgivings. I view it as heavy theming with little substance and unfortunately, it's the best thing that we received for the 100% price increase (oh... and of course the pleasure of having to pre-plan my vacations months in advance with MM+).

 

[rteetz]

Let's see, since 2010:

New Fantasy Land
Avatar Land
Disney Springs
Frozen ride (yeah yeah..)
Additional capacity to TSM and Soarin (cutting our wait times in half does matter)
Grand Floridian and Polynesian Vacation Club options

And now in a month they'll (almost assuredly) announce a huge expansion at DHS.

I just don't get the idea Disney is just resting on its laurels. Doesn't match reality. It seems some would think they need to rebuild the 4 parks every couple years or else they're doing nothing. That's not how it works.

But now think before that. DHS hasn't seen anything big since TSMM in 2008. Before avatar 2006 was the last time something was added to AK. Nothing has been added to Epcot since 2005 and frozen doesn't even belong there. DVC they have and will continue to do because they make big money off of it.

 

[JustCallMeMommy]

I think Disney is big enough with enough name recognition that they aren't going to be too impacted by anything Universal is doing. Heck, there are still people who don't understand that HP is not at Disney.

I think most people are still doing their Disney vacation, but many are tacking on Universal. I'm about to do it the other way around for the 2nd time - a Universal vacation with only a Halloween party at Disney. IMO, as the kids get older, Universal becomes more and more attractive.

I do wish Disney would take a lesson from the speed of Universal's implementations. Diagon Alley is unbelievable in its theming, and it was done light years faster than anything Disney has done lately (including parking garages).

 

[rteetz]

I get your feelings, I want that stuff sooner too. And DHS is definitely in need of the upcoming overhaul. But from a business perspective, it makes no sense for Disney to throw money away speeding things up. And since WDW is head and shoulders above the rest, IMO, I don't think they need to, and are in no danger of needing to. HP is great, but it's not like WDW attendance shrunk as a result. And if tough times hit, WDW wouldn't suffer any more or less than US.

I don't think Disney is so head and shoulders above the rest. Yes they still have a lot more than universal but universal is doing major things right now, new water park, resorts, rides almost every year. Disney and universal need each other. Disney brings in people that helps universal, universal does something that also brings people to Disney.

I think Disney's biggest problem right now is the fact that get nearly 20 million at MK but half of that at most of the other parks.

Also let's look at Tokyo Disney... Yes not owned by the Disney company but both parks bring in 30 million total a year. They keep their parks as well kept as anything, they continue to invest billions into both parks as well when they don't need to.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

I know whenever people head down to Universal, they still stop down at Disney and tell people they're going to Disney as their main trip. Yes Disney does take their time building attractions, but honestly, I'm curious to see whether or not Universal's newest additions can survive giant (blank) hurricanes. Every time I saw how rapid Transformers or Diagon Alley was built, deep down I always wondered: If a Charlie-scale hurricane were to happen again, what would happen at Universal? Also another thing I look at is this: every expansion we've talked about was at the Studios itself, not Islands. When Kong opens, that would be only the sixth new ride it's opened ever (Storm Force Accelerator and Flying Unicorn in 2000, Seuss Trolley in 2006, Forbidden Journey in 2010 and Hogwarts Express in 2014; I'm not counting the conversion of Dueling Dragons and Unicorn to Potter as "new attractions" as Dragons was only closed for like a week when it was converted and nothing changed with the ride itself for hippogriff). Universal was always like this with the studio, once something there becomes outdated they changed it (Back to the Future, Hanna-Barbara, Jimmy Neutron). The lifespans of the attractions there don't last as long which is why I think we're hearing about so much growth there. Think about it, how long have we heard that Twister was on the chopping block? E.T.? The I Love Lucy exhibit? Elsewhere in the resort it is the same as Disney's been doing, improving the resort's infrastructure. That's how I at least look at Universal's growth.

 

[WillJenDisney]

IMO, it's mediocre at best. When one of the most common compliments is "how well themed the wait queues are"... you know there's just not much substance to be had. Seven Dwarfs and Be Our Guest are obviously the highlights. One entails waiting 120 minutes for a 90-second kiddie coaster. The other requires ADR's 6 months in advance to even set foot in the place for good theming and average food. And if by boat ride, you mean Little Mermaid... it's actually a very basic Omnimover ride. Nothing to really get worked up over (and in my experience, always a 5 minute walk-on ride, which is indicative of the quality).

Again, while NFL doesn't knock my socks off, I appreciate it for what it is. But to laude it as some sort of spectacular addition is crazy talk. I personally feel that some were so starved for something... ANYTHING new after a decade + long drought of NOTHING new from 2000 on, that this was welcomed with incredibly open arms despite its misgivings. I view it as heavy theming with little substance and unfortunately, it's the best thing that we received for the 100% price increase (oh... and of course the pleasure of having to pre-plan my vacations months in advance with MM+).

You're right, I meant the Little Mermaid omnimover ride, not boat. I didn't think it was a spectacular addition, I just thought it was really nice. Which is all I need from a park that is already fantastic.

 

[alicat8]

Based only on my opinion and experiences, Universal NEEDS to expand. The last time I went (which was after the first phase of HP stuff opened, but not the newer) the original park was sad sad sad. It was August, and the park was deserted. The rides that were new since the last time we had been there kept breaking down. Kongfrontation was gone It made me really sad thinking about what it used to be-it felt like a shell. IOA was still fun, and the HP stuff was amazing, but it definitely felt like we wasted a TON of money to hop over there for the day. Disney gives me the feels and always will! Universal was fun for me from about 10-25. To me, and I think to lots of others, it lacks the heart that Disney has. I think the characters are a huge part of this!

And, like people say on these boards all the time, it's good for both resorts when the other does well!

 

[sbelyo]

with the best/only thing in the pipeline being Maelstrom 2.0.

Is this another name for Frozen ever after or did I miss something?

 

[Andrew015]

Is this another name for Frozen ever after or did I miss something?

No, this is me being facetious, as in a nutshell, the ride is essentially going to be the same as Maelstrom with a "Frozen Makeover".

 

[sbelyo]

that's what I thought, just checking. I miss that dang ride

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

We all have our ideas how US and WDW should spend money in the parks that's for sure. Nobody is wrong or right.

But I have been wondering how many dollars the HP stuff, and Rip Rocket, Kong etc cost US?

I mean WDW is dumping in over $5 Billion this decade alone. Just wondering if that is much or not any more.

 

[Castle2Castle]

Whatever debates there are to be had about the speed or extent of Disney adding to the park, there's such a big gap between WDW and Universal that they're far from screwed. The recent theme park attendance put total Universal attendance around 16.4 million while Magic Kingdom alone pulled in 19.3 million. Universal Studios enjoyed a 17% bump on the back of Diagon Alley and it still saw fewer visitors than the fast emptying Hollywood Studios; it's hard to think of two parks going in more opposite directions.

Additional closures and construction may allow one of the Universal parks to catch Hollywood Studios over the next couple of years, but they'll still be a distant runner-up to WDW as a whole. And it may be short lived if Disney does even a good (not great) job with overhauling the park fka Hollywood Studios.

 

[rteetz]

We all have our ideas how US and WDW should spend money in the parks that's for sure. Nobody is wrong or right.

But I have been wondering how many dollars the HP stuff, and Rip Rocket, Kong etc cost US?

I mean WDW is dumping in over $5 Billion this decade alone. Just wondering if that is much or not any more.

I don't know total numbers but I remeber hearing forbidden journey cost less than 200 million I believe.

 

[Andrew015]

I mean WDW is dumping in over $5 Billion this decade alone. Just wondering if that is much or not any more.

$5 Billion sounds like a huge number, but when broken up over A. a decade-long period of time and B. all of the areas throughout WDW needing attention, you could probably very easily justify double that amount and still have areas that have been missed / need attention. $5 billion over a decade breaks out to $500M per year in investment. Disney Parks & Resorts earned $15.1B in 2014 revenue, so that equates to only ~3% worth of total revenues being reinvested annually. Also remember that $1B of that investment figure was MM+, which IMHO, was not designed to enhance the guest experience, but rather, control crowds and track spending behavior.