Is Disney World becoming a shell of its former self?

[Jake]

Universal is putting all there eggs in one basket Harry Potter. Just look at some of the Disney stuff. AS TGMR no one under 30 knows anybody in the TGMR. Or Back to the future, Jaws, no one knows these pictures. the whole ECPOT idea. EPCOT is not the future. The Future went by ECPOT already. Harry Potter, can be Harry who? In ten years. The park admission is not the only problem. It's the air fare, hotel prices, food ect. It's like no matter what vacation you take it cost them same price. Unless you go camping in a state park or something.
Disney still has the very young kid hook.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

Honestly if it weren't for airfare I feel like I would be down there more

 

[rteetz]

Universal is putting all there eggs in one basket Harry Potter. Just look at some of the Disney stuff. AS TGMR no one under 30 knows anybody in the TGMR. Or Back to the future, Jaws, no one knows these pictures. the whole ECPOT idea. EPCOT is not the future. The Future went by ECPOT already. Harry Potter, can be Harry who? In ten years. The park admission is not the only problem. It's the air fare, hotel prices, food ect. It's like no matter what vacation you take it cost them same price. Unless you go camping in a state park or something.
Disney still has the very young kid hook.

J.K. Rowling is coming out with a new potter book to reinvigorate the frenzy. I think Potter is the current generations Star Wars. Now that can of course change with the new trilogy coming out. I am under 30 and know a majority of the things in the GMR. The movies in that ride are all time classics.

 

[Planogirl]

I think Disney will always be better than Universal, no matter what they do. Classic rides like Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean could never be duplicated by Universal. They don't know how to make slow moving family rides or animatronic characters. Most of their rides just shake you around.

They have plenty of slow attractions and they don't just shake you around. I couldn't take that! They also have some amazing animatronics.

However what Universal does or doesn't do has no bearing on Disney. Disney is slow and a few of their parks are in a sad state. At least right now.

 

[Planogirl]

Universal is putting all there eggs in one basket Harry Potter. Just look at some of the Disney stuff. AS TGMR no one under 30 knows anybody in the TGMR. Or Back to the future, Jaws, no one knows these pictures. the whole ECPOT idea. EPCOT is not the future. The Future went by ECPOT already. Harry Potter, can be Harry who? In ten years. The park admission is not the only problem. It's the air fare, hotel prices, food ect. It's like no matter what vacation you take it cost them same price. Unless you go camping in a state park or something.
Disney still has the very young kid hook.

There's also Jurassic Park and the Minions and Transformers and Dr. Seuss. Jaws and Back to the Future are gone.

 

[thiee]

At the end of the day it comes down to 3 factors between disney and universal. Both have money, universal with Comcast having a little more. Disney has the land and the biggest factor outside of money and land is CONTENT!! The most important element to the grand scheme of a park. I don't care what King Kong or Jurassic park or those minions makes in the box office it will not have the same impact overall that a movie like frozen which captured the hearts and imagination of many including FEMALES who are driving factors of decisions. Especially vacations, disney will always be ahead of universal because they own what they put in the parks like lucas films, marvel, Pixar, disney studios etc.

 

[WillJenDisney]

From 1989 - 1999
Disney-MGM Studios
Typhoon Lagoon
Pleasure Island
Star Tours
Muppet Vision 3D
Tower of Terror
Rockin' Roller Coaster
Splash Mountain
Mickey's Starland
ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter
Wonders of Life
Norway
Test Track
Soarin
Animal Kingdom
Blizzard Beach
Yacht Club Resort
Beach Club Resort
Caribbean Beach Resort
Port Orleans
Dixie Landings
All Star Sports, Music, and Movies Resorts
Coronado Springs

.........and many other additions I may have not remembered.

I'm not sure what the point is. That type of construction was possible because there was room for growth. At this point, there's only so many more people that can possibly be lured to WDW at any given time. If they continued to build at that pace, they'd have 8+ gates now, 30 hotels, and they'd all be 1/4 full and the parks division would be bankrupt.

 

[Greg K.]

Disney has something no one else has: the brand. There is history and nostalgia and an indescribable SOMETHING that keeps luring people, across generations, to relive experiences from their past. They also have (though it's diminished some) a sterling reputation for service that leaves customers ("guests") continually satisfied, even at the outrageously inflated prices.

There is a lot in the works for the next several years, as others have noted—most significantly, developments at the AK, Disney Springs (which could turn into a cash cow), and Hollywood Studios (or whatever they call it). I think the next five years or so could see some dramatic enhancements and changes.

 

[Madteaparty001]

I keep hearing the argument of Disney construction costing too much money for what we get and taking longer than everyone else. Doesn't anyone else think Disney would love things to be built faster and cost less?

The truth is whenever anyone Disney is trying to hire hears the company's name the first thing that comes to their mind is $$$. Same thing happened when Walt was buying up land for WDW, that's why he did it in secret. I've personally heard stories from construction worker friends who have gotten yelled at by different bosses if they work too fast. Time means money to both Disney and the people they contract to do work for them. Unfortunately one wants faster and the other wants slower.

So while we can go on and on about how we think Disney should do things, let's remember that Disney is a company made up of thousands and thousands of people, and everyone wants a cut of the money.

 

[peg110]

I don't know. Maybe it's me. I have been to Disney 5 times in the last about 6 years. People talk about what Disney has or has not done over the years. Maybe it's because I am not a WDW Expert who goes every year, but I don't see some of the issues that people point out.

Every time I go, I have to ride "It's a small world." Yeah, the music can get annoying, but it's still an enjoyable ride and I see something new in the display almost every time.
I don't see the constant state of dis-repair. Do I notice somethings are different? Sure. Last time I was there the POTC had some definite issues. (The projection on the fog, the cannon fire/explosions weren't working right) but that didn't stop us from riding it multiple times.

We have a local park here (Knoebels) which hasn't changed most of their rides in a LONG time. They do occasionally add one or replace another, but it's still very enjoyable. I don't need to go to a park (either locally or to WDW) and have it changed every time I go. I find it funny that as much as people want it to change, I hear just as many complaints from people that it DID change.

A good example. Malestrom in Epcot (I did like that ride and missed that it wasn't there last time) is being replaced (okay, maybe just a face lift) with Frozen. Oh the complaints on that.

So what is it? Do we replace or stay the same? There is only so much you can do with a car/boat/clam shell on a track. You can make it curve a different way, change it's speed, but ultimately a roller coaster is a roller coaster, what differentiates it is the theme.

My biggest complaint about any of them is the price. I might go more frequently if it wasn't so expensive, but I guess the bean counters have done the math to identify the "Ideal" costs of things to drain my wallet in as few trips as possible.

 

[WillJenDisney]

Which features one new attraction and some modest upgrades. Woopy-doo.



Which doesn't even exist yet and per latest updates is going to include just a boat ride and a re-packaging of "soarin"



Which is downgrade of the old DTD (many of us still miss PI)



Yeah, they "upgraded" another WS boat ride. Woopy-doo.



I thought FP+ took care of all the long line issues. You mean it didn't?



Which are of absolutely no benefit to 95% of those coming to WDW.



What are you going to to tell is "in a month" if said announcement doesn't happen or is just more of this tweaking of existing attractions/underwhelming new additions?



Oh, really? Then please explain to this DVC member why he keeps seeing the same drill at the DVC hotel exit every morning when we visit. A long line of people waiting to get into the Mears shuttle that is heading over to Universal. If the brain trust in Anaheim was really doing their math, they'd be shocked at the amount of guest spend by their most supposedly loyal customers that is already going to a competitor. And why is that?

Because they have become complacent and yes, are resting on their increasingly faded laurels.

Ok... NFL features a new restaurant that at least at dinner is really also an immersive experience that everyone loves. It added a very well themed kids coaster based on a classic that is also fun for parents. It added a Little Mermaid ride. It made the wait for Dumbo much shorter and the time you are waiting easier. And it added a ton of great theming to fantasy land. I see that as pretty great. Not sure what earth shattering thing was supposed to happen in the children's fantasy land that has left so many disappointed. The very things that have made Disney parks great (simple, yet tremendously themed rides/attractions that can be enjoyed by folks of all ages), now seem to irk people. Again, I just think the expectations have become absurdly unrealistic for many.

And yes, Avatar doesn't exist yet, but it's being built. Any renderings of that place we've seen look awesome. It looks to be fantastic, immersive theming with an e-ticket and d-ticket ride. Did everyone say Splash Mountain was nothing but a repackaged water flume? Tower of Terror was just a repackaged drop ride? Space Mountain is just a coaster with a roof over it? No, they were great themed rides. Very few rides are ever going to reinvent the wheel. Yet it seems if Disney doesn't do just that, they're now chastised in a way that they never used to be when building the rides I described above.

And PI eventually failed. That's why it was replaced. Disney Springs looks to be an upgrade in every possible way sans nostalgia. The new Springs looks great, features some really interesting new restaurants (looking at you Edison), and a much bigger experience for significantly more people.

The FP+ comment is just an unfair shot. Nobody ever acted like, "FP+ is here, ride waits are a thing of the past!" So to act like that was ever said is to stop attempting to have a legitimate conversation about these things.

Finally, the DHS announcement will happen at D23. If it doesn't, I'll come on here and eat my fair share of crow. But it will.

 

[WillJenDisney]

I don't know. Maybe it's me. I have been to Disney 5 times in the last about 6 years. People talk about what Disney has or has not done over the years. Maybe it's because I am not a WDW Expert who goes every year, but I don't see some of the issues that people point out.

Every time I go, I have to ride "It's a small world." Yeah, the music can get annoying, but it's still an enjoyable ride and I see something new in the display almost every time.
I don't see the constant state of dis-repair. Do I notice somethings are different? Sure. Last time I was there the POTC had some definite issues. (The projection on the fog, the cannon fire/explosions weren't working right) but that didn't stop us from riding it multiple times.

We have a local park here (Knoebels) which hasn't changed most of their rides in a LONG time. They do occasionally add one or replace another, but it's still very enjoyable. I don't need to go to a park (either locally or to WDW) and have it changed every time I go. I find it funny that as much as people want it to change, I hear just as many complaints from people that it DID change.

A good example. Malestrom in Epcot (I did like that ride and missed that it wasn't there last time) is being replaced (okay, maybe just a face lift) with Frozen. Oh the complaints on that.

So what is it? Do we replace or stay the same? There is only so much you can do with a car/boat/clam shell on a track. You can make it curve a different way, change it's speed, but ultimately a roller coaster is a roller coaster, what differentiates it is the theme.

My biggest complaint about any of them is the price. I might go more frequently if it wasn't so expensive, but I guess the bean counters have done the math to identify the "Ideal" costs of things to drain my wallet in as few trips as possible.

Great post, couldn't agree more. I think it's a matter of Disney having set the bar so high by building new gates every 10 years for the first 30 years, adding tons of hotels, water parks, etc, that now people expect that to continue forever. There are eventually diminishing returns. They can't build infinitely to attract a finite crowd. Universal has to kill itself to expand because they're nowhere near that point. WDW is much closer to maximizing the crowd numbers. That's why $1B gets invested first into making more money on those who are already there rather than on attracting new folks.

And as you said. The park is already fantastic. Why does it have to dramatically change all the time? Sure, they should tweak things, add things occasionally, etc, but thats exactly what they do. They have the exact right mix of adding new things and maintaining nostalgic things IMO.

 

[TwoMisfits]

My family has made the swap to Universal and are more excited every year as we see more and more properties we know and love come to life (I can't even ride the Simpsons ride more than once b/c I get ill, but the area itself is the show I grew up with brought to life - Harry Potter part 1 and 2 are gorgeous - Suessland are the kid's books brought to life, etc)...Universal is everything I loved about Disney in the 90's - growing, changing, exciting, amazing, easy. With Nintendo on board and with a board committed to using their content and bringing it to life, I look forward to many more central Florida trips centered on the Universal Parks (with 1 day trips to others, including MK, when I miss it too much)...the day I get to step into a Super Mario Brothers attraction - boy, if they ever announce that, there will never be a contest again...and I'm a girl (not all of us girls are into the princess thing)...

 

[rteetz]

At the end of the day it comes down to 3 factors between disney and universal. Both have money, universal with Comcast having a little more. Disney has the land and the biggest factor outside of money and land is CONTENT!! The most important element to the grand scheme of a park. I don't care what King Kong or Jurassic park or those minions makes in the box office it will not have the same impact overall that a movie like frozen which captured the hearts and imagination of many including FEMALES who are driving factors of decisions. Especially vacations, disney will always be ahead of universal because they own what they put in the parks like lucas films, marvel, Pixar, disney studios etc.

But frozen is only getting a layover in Norway. If frozen was so great why aren't we getting what Tokyo is getting....

 

[rteetz]

I keep hearing the argument of Disney construction costing too much money for what we get and taking longer than everyone else. Doesn't anyone else think Disney would love things to be built faster and cost less?

The truth is whenever anyone Disney is trying to hire hears the company's name the first thing that comes to their mind is $$$. Same thing happened when Walt was buying up land for WDW, that's why he did it in secret. I've personally heard stories from construction worker friends who have gotten yelled at by different bosses if they work too fast. Time means money to both Disney and the people they contract to do work for them. Unfortunately one wants faster and the other wants slower.

So while we can go on and on about how we think Disney should do things, let's remember that Disney is a company made up of thousands and thousands of people, and everyone wants a cut of the money.

Disney does the slow construction schedules because it costs them less in the long run. Doing this puts the costs over multiple fiscal budgets.

 

[rteetz]

Finally, the DHS announcement will happen at D23. If it doesn't, I'll come on here and eat my fair share of crow. But it will.

Only thing I'm going to say about this I wouldn't get my hopes up for a whole lot on Star Wars. We will very likely see an announcement about Pixar additions and a possible overall rebranding announcement but from what I'm hearing is Star Wars will be very vague.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I keep hearing the argument of Disney construction costing too much money for what we get and taking longer than everyone else. Doesn't anyone else think Disney would love things to be built faster and cost less?

The truth is whenever anyone Disney is trying to hire hears the company's name the first thing that comes to their mind is $$$. Same thing happened when Walt was buying up land for WDW, that's why he did it in secret. I've personally heard stories from construction worker friends who have gotten yelled at by different bosses if they work too fast. Time means money to both Disney and the people they contract to do work for them. Unfortunately one wants faster and the other wants slower.

So while we can go on and on about how we think Disney should do things, let's remember that Disney is a company made up of thousands and thousands of people, and everyone wants a cut of the money.

Construction contracts don't work like that. The contractor is paid by the job not the hour. Disney is the one that is providing the exaggerated timelines so that they can spread cost out over time rather than knocking something out and having to report full cost in a single quarter. It's just one of the many ways this leadership has let Wallstreet become the new face of Disney.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

But frozen is only getting a layover in Norway. If frozen was so great why aren't we getting what Tokyo is getting....

I know you're being sarcastic but I'm betting a large population won't get your point.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I don't see the constant state of dis-repair. Do I notice somethings are different? Sure. Last time I was there the POTC had some definite issues. (The projection on the fog, the cannon fire/explosions weren't working right) but that didn't stop us from riding it multiple times.

My biggest complaint about any of them is the price. I might go more frequently if it wasn't so expensive, but I guess the bean counters have done the math to identify the "Ideal" costs of things to drain my wallet in as few trips as possible.

I'm just chopping out two pieces because overall I agree with your sentiments but these two items really stand out for me. There was a time when something not functioning was unacceptable. Disney was built to be "perfect" or at least provide the illusion that it was. The original leaders were mortified when things didn't work, weren't painted or didn't acheive the desired effect. If something was off they fixed it or removed it entirely but they didn't just turn it around, prop it up so it can at least be seen even if it isn't moving or let it just half work. I'm not sure why it has become acceptable to just not fix things.

This is even more exaggerated by the cost. When things could function properly at $25 a ticket why is it they can't at $100. It just feels like the entire theme park operation is becoming how to give the least for the most amount of money.

 

[WillJenDisney]

Only thing I'm going to say about this I wouldn't get my hopes up for a whole lot on Star Wars. We will very likely see an announcement about Pixar additions and a possible overall rebranding announcement but from what I'm hearing is Star Wars will be very vague.

You think they'll wait for The Force Awakens to release before announcing all the details? Regardless, I'm fully confident the big announcement will come at D23, even if it's vague on SW until a few months later.