Is Disney declining or are we? (Food for thought)

[TiggerBouncy]

I was having a private discussion with another member, and I just remembered a conversation I once had....

A few years ago, I was talking to an old friend who is a meteorologist. I asked him why there were so many more natural disasters today then when we were growing up. I was expecting a lecture about global warming and some such. But he replied to me "You know, there really aren't. We just report them better now". He went on to explain to me that when we were kids, long distance communication was more limited. We had phones. We really didn't have networks of computers that could send emails around the world in a blink of an eye. Pictures took a long time to get from one place to another and had to be developed and flown around to papers. Things like fax machines were not in common use. For someone living in Indiana to hear about an earthquake in Tokyo just wasn't a thing. At most, it might be mentioned in text only on the 12th page of a newspaper if you cared to read it and little was known about it other than it happened. The news if you watch it would have a stock picture of Tokyo or the Japanese flag and the person would saw a few sentences.

Today, everyone has a cell phone. It takes only seconds to take a picture with your phone and under a minute to tweet it or post it on facebook or a forum like this one. The earthquake in Tokyo we know instantly that it happened, how big it was, who was affected and have pictures of the devastation within seconds and body counts start coming in minutes later. Many people get notifications on their phone. It circulated like wildfire.

What happens when you so drastically increase the ability to see everything is that you catch the dirty laundry when it's still hanging out to dry.

One of the most common complaints I see is "Disney is dirty. It never used to be that way". Well, if you go back to the 80's, the only measure you really had about if Disney was dirty was your personal experience with it and some close friends. If a bathroom in the Magic Kingdom was dirty from 8am - 10am and then cleaned at 10, you would never know it if you were in Seattle or Chicago. Likewise you wouldn't know it if you were in EPCOT, or even in the Magic Kingdom unless you were in that bathroom during those hours. If a garbage can was overflowing at EPCOT from 12-12:30 in the UK, only a few people ever saw it, and no one had the time or patience to take pictures of it, develop them, and find some way to mass distribute them.

Today because of the commonality of cameras and the ease of dispersal, we see EVERYTHING. If a garbage can is dirty from 12-12:30 in the UK pavilion, everyone knows about it by 12:01 whether you were there, or your best friend, or some stranger that you have never met and have no personal connections to.

I had an argument on FB the other day with someone who told me that nothing I could say would matter since they believed what they read with their own eyes over anyone's experiences. I.E. if one person saw it, that was the new law. Disney could be sparkling 99.99999% of the places 99.9999% of the time, but as long as they missed one thing for one moment, it was clear (because I mean IT IS TRUE) that it happened.

So I am curious.... Has Disney ACTUALLY gotten dirtier, or have we just become more aware because of technology. Note this is rhetorical. I do not think this is something we can ever 100% answer. Even if someone says in their experience, that is still just one person's experience. Unless we have a true statistical study of thousands, and even then you are relying on the "green grass of memories past". I question anyone who says in their experience how much they really noticed and would remember an overflowing trash can when then were 10 years old.

 

[DSLRuser]

Sunday I saw a cast member Patrick behind the Christmas Shop in MK go out of his way to pick up trash. It was far enough out of his way that I stopped him. We were relaxing on those picnic tables.

I thanked him for going out of his way to pick up that trash. He was very open and said it was his job. He was mid to late 20's in age. I told him we had been coming 2-3 times a year now for 30+ years. Back in the 90's, you would never see trash or even a fallen leaf, it just didn't happen. in the last 15 years or so, those standards have dropped.

I thanked him and let him know that guests like us notice those things and appreciate his efforts.

We talked a while..he said backstage they had big debates on how to handle dropped masks. it was funny.

 

[Vulnox]

I certainly think message boards have a lot of that in general. I participate in a couple others for vehicles, and going off those message boards you would think these vehicles are almost all falling apart daily. But an overwhelming majority of owners are happy and have few if any issues. But many people seek out places like this because they have a complaint, or are trying to find a way to solve a problem, or whatever. It also draws in more involved fans, so something that may not be obvious to the average customer/visitor is obvious to them and they share it. Again like the vehicle discussion, someone may find that the stock tires are poor when used in more significant off-road situations, but a vast majority of customers don't put their vehicle in that situation and for daily driving they are just fine.

So here, we have decades of experience for so many members, there may be some of that normal human behavior of seeing mostly the positives from our past history and forgetting the rough edges even then. And many here are on the lookout for things many (like myself) may not even know had changed.

Some issues though I think are legitimate. Disney as a rule may not be much dirtier, but cost cutting and that may impact the number of CMs out there doing those random clean ups, like was mentioned above with the CM that went out of their way to get trash picked up. So there may be a little more time before that trash is found as there are fewer CMs just roaming the parks. I know that may sound like it means it is dirtier, but I think the point is more that trash would be there regardless. But with more CMs walking around, it may be noticed within five minutes where fewer may mean it is ten minutes. A lot of people can walk by in five extra minutes. But the trash is there in either scenario.

 

[Chuck S]

There is SOME decline at Disney, simply due to lack of staffing right now, but generally, at least over Thanksgiving, the parks were clean like always.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Definitely things get magnified when everyone has a phone with a camera and so many are looking for flaws to report, because it gets them attention and some kind of social media cred. It's become trendy to criticize everything Disney does. Some of the criticism is justified, and they've brought a lot of it on themselves, no doubt.

It also doesn't help that there are people now where it is literally their job to find and exaggerate any possible negative so they can make a youtube video about it. So many channels exist only to complain about things. Again I'm not saying there is nothing to complain about or that people shouldn't complain. I'm talking about the cottage industry that has sprung up to profit off complaining, and exaggerating the negatives. These people gleefully hope for things like Galactic Starcruiser to fail because it will be good for their business. Videos titled "I id <something> at Disney and it was great!" don't get clicks like "OMG <something> at Disney is a complete disaster!!!! Could be the end of civilization as we know it!!!"

Ok enough of my old man ranting. And get off my lawn!

 

[Shellyred8]

Another thought is that more guests choose not to use the garbage cans and just drop their trash on the ground.

 

[J-Dog]

There is SOME decline at Disney, simply due to lack of staffing right now, but generally, at least over Thanksgiving, the parks were clean like always.

I agree completely.

People love to think in black-and-white, because life is easier that way. Either Disney is sparkling clean or a cesspool.

In reality, life is a sliding scale. It may be true that Disney is dirtier now than before due to staffing issues, but it's not as if they have abandoned all cleaning protocols in the name of "budget cuts".

 

[corpcomp]

I have not noticed it being more dirty BUT I think allowing cast members to modify their personal appearances (haircuts, facial hair etc... kind of lessens what I always expected in the name of the all American look. Call me old school - I don't care. I just look for new rides, clean tables and clean sheets on the beds. Our room last time was well cleaned and I did not notice trash in the parks at all.

Yes the pandemic has challenged everyone but they can only do so much when there is so much turnover of staff. In the French Pastry, there used to be 5 staff behind the counters besides the cashiers. There were only three now and one of them told me at 8 days they were the longest employed.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

So to clarify, I am not implying that there is no downgrade in services or that Disney is hitting every mark or the parks are pristine.

I am just saying that if you look at these boards and FB groups, you get the impression that every garbage can is overflowing, there are armies of ants taking over EPCOT, mold colonies block hallways in the hotels, and gangs of roaches are holding up customers and stealing their cupcakes.

Certainly there have been struggles related to staffing since the pandemic (some of those are self inflicted). But I think we need to recognize that there is still a pandemic going on.

I was just calling attention to the concept that even if everything is the same, conceptually we are more aware due to some of what I mentioned as well as what people here have called out.

 

[NoTime42]

My first memory of Disney includes seeing an army of CM’s with those broom and hinged pans constantly sweeping up cigarette butts and occasional other litter.
In that sense, guests back then littered a lot more than they do, now.

 

[DonMacGregor]

My first job as a junior in high school in 1981 was as a CM in Attractions at Disneyland. I stayed there until 1992. I will tell you that even back in the "Golden Days", you were constantly picking up trash, particularly maps and popcorn containers, and sweepers were always sweeping up spilled popcorn or cleaning up the all-too-common "Code-V". Back then, Custodial didn't carry the magenta fanny packs or bags with extra Pixie Dust and towels either, so it was whoever got to it first. People were just as messy then as they are now, although I think personal habits are getting worse.

I can say I still see CM's picking up trash, to the point that if I see one pass by some litter, it really jumps out at me. Of course, back in the day, you didn't hesitate to bend over and pick up a dirty napkin, or paper cup, or even a half-eaten whatever. Post-pandemic, I'm not sure how much I'd grab today with my bare hands. Busier parks make navigating crowds with a pan and broom more challenging, and I've been in a restroom way back in Fantasyland in MK at 10:00 and seen overflowing trashcans that you KNOW were empty less than an hour earlier.

 

[AvidDisReader]

I have been going to WDW since the mid 1970's, and for those who can remember the late 1990's and early 2000's WDW was not in great shape. It was the the end of Eisner's reign and he was so into maximizing profits that such thing as WDW maintenance was really low on the priority list. One of the first thing Igor did was poor $ into getting WDW back up to prior standards. As for now, I am willing to cut WDW some slack due to the still issue of not having proper staffing. Having said that, my charity will only last a little while longer before I start to expect better results.

 

[CraigInPA]

I recall going in the 1970's and seeing trash on the ground at MK. Most of it was stuff like straws and napkins. Occasionally it was a food wrapper. I also recall EVERY CM, no matter who they were, bending down and picking stuff up to put in the trashcan. You haven't seen real dedication until you see Cinderella (at least I recall it was Cinderella, but it was 45 years ago!) lean over and pick up a candy wrapper that a youngster dropped while she was speaking to him.

 

[Chuck S]

I have been going to WDW since the mid 1970's, and for those who can remember the late 1990's and early 2000's WDW was not in great shape. It was the the end of Eisner's reign and he was so into maximizing profits that such thing as WDW maintenance was really low on the priority list. One of the first thing Igor did was poor $ into getting WDW back up to prior standards. As for now, I am willing to cut WDW some slack due to the still issue of not having proper staffing. Having said that, my charity will only last a little while longer before I start to expect better results.

If you think Eisner was into maximizing profits, buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride with Chapek at the helm, as evidenced by the price increases, the $6,000 Star Wars hotel and $15 individual lightning lane attractions as well as dwindling guest services. Right now, the decline is due to lack of staffing, but I fear the writing is on the wall.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I am definitely declining! I think Tron is going to be way out of my comfort zone!

 

[BamaGuy44]

I am definitely declining! I think Tron is going to be way out of my comfort zone!

It will be a sad, sad day when I can't ride the thrill rides any more. Thankfully, that day isn't here yet

 

[J-Dog]

It will be a sad, sad day when I can't ride the thrill rides any more. Thankfully, that day isn't here yet

I'm still good with the thrill rides and roller coasters, but the spinners - i.e. the teacups at MK - are a no-go for me anymore.

 

[a1tinkfans]

It’s DISNEY , not blaming Guests

 

[Boopuff]

OP couldn't agree more. My dad was a journalist- back in the day when newspapers provided much of our news - he said with the advent of "instant" media, we found out about everything at the blink of an eye. Stuff we never realized was going on - kidnappings, disappearances, theft etc. Now it's all instant. Many times I read/watch something online and I have to stop and think: this is the opinion of one person. I'll be ready to judge for myself on our next trip!

 

[dcfromva]

Interesting discussion.
What I have been wondering about lately is how much did/does Disney rely on guest workers from other countries/college program and other part time labor? And, how much has that been restored since the Pandemic began? For example, my impression is in the past a lot of the folks staffing EPCOT came from other countries, but on recent visits it seemed to be folks mainly from the US.

So, on a recent visit to Disneyland--the crowd levels were up. And, some of the stalls in the bathrooms were out of toilet paper (which I don't ever remember being a problem in the past). Maybe the folks caring for the bathrooms are having to monitor more than they used to with reduced staffing?