Is Disney at fault for disappointment?

[GreatLakes]

Not really. Disney requires a lot of research and planning if you are trying to go with a detailed schedule. It doesn't require all that much if you want to wing it at a slow time with a smaller party but you do still need to do a little preparation.

I have no desire to pre-plan everything 180 or even 7 days out so I don't go during peak times, don't try and coordinate a bunch of different parties, and don't have my heart set on any extremely hard to get reservations be it ADRs or FP+s. My wife and I tend to just go with the flow and if there is something we can't do this trip we'll try again next time. If we are traveling with other families we make our reservations and let them take care of theirs. I would have to have a head injury before I linked everyone to my MDE account and started to coordinate a large group of people at Disney. No thank you.

We were down there for 8 days (5 park days) this past June, did very little pre-planning, and still had a great time. It can be done.

 

[eliza61]

I do agree with you that Disney is an extra level of planning, and requires much more notice than other things if you want certain experiences. But I think the same is true of other places, maybe to a lesser extent, but true.

You can go to Washington DC and do a bunch of stuff and eat at a bunch of places, but you aren't going to just walk up to tour the White House.

I don't have a passport, so I'm not just going to be able to hop a plane to Mexico. So should I complain that pre-2001, I could just drive over the border and present my driver's license.

Or the recent thing I saw on FB about the woman who could not go on her honeymoon because her passport was damaged. She was blaming the airline worker who would not accept the damaged passport.

I think Disney should dial back the ADR window, but they do send out materials about the dates. And you can have a good vacation without ADRs or even FP.

I think the difference is "reasonable and expected". for example using the DC scenario. Most people on the planet know that you can't roll up to the White house or the Capital due to the security issues and if you have ever experienced the President coming to town or in my case the Pope, you "expect" that there will be issues to navigate.


Disney does not do this, they make no mention of the hassles in their advertisements, nor should they have to.

I am willing to bet the Average vacation traveler does not normally make the "D-day, troops invading normandy" type of plans that a Disney vacation now requires. ON top of that, you are now to the point that you cannot simply sit back and "enjoy" your vacation. any deviation from plans is starting to require Herculean efforts to change. I posted a thread when I got back about the hassle it was to change a fp+ for a second park while you are still at the first park. OMG!! I've read tax codes that were simpler.

Like I said the last 4 years I've been heavy into doing as much of Europe as I can afford and yes while many attractions that may require a year in advance reservations, they are usually one or two. at Disney it's darn near all or nothing.

Now the second problem with Disney is what I consider "consequences". going back to the DC example, if I don't get into the white house while disappointing it would not be catastrophic, just way to much other stuff to do. not so with the mouseworld. While the website does encourage you to use fp+ they do not mention that if you don't log on exactly at 12:01 on your 60 day window you very well could get locked out of major rides.
If you don't have park hoppers you could very well end up with a first timer who is in a park doing small time rides.

 

[amylevan]

I'm a UBER-planner, and even I think making ADRs 180 days in advance is ridiculous. Yes, we could do without them but I have an Ohana-loving DH, a character meal fan and children who need to eat dinner at what we consider to be reasonable times to avoid melt downs. So, I suck it up and do it, complaining the whole time. I wasn't even a fan back when it was 90 days, but at least that was more reasonable.

Don't even get me started on FP+. 60 days in advance?!?!?

Having said that, I'm not sure what else Disney can be expected to do. Right on Disney's website for , "Advance reservations are strongly [or "highly" depending on restaurant] recommended and can be made up to 180 days prior to your visit." They send postcards and emails to remind about FP+.

And this is the technology age. There really is no excuse for "I didn't know". They might not like it. They might not want to do it. They might not know about it 180 days in advance. But there really is no reason they should say they didn't know at all. If you are spending thousands of dollars on a vacation, you should at least throw it into google a few times and see what comes up. (And yes, I do that for ALL my vacations. I like to have back-up plans for rainy days at the beach or while camping, lists of restaurants that we might want to eat at, kid friendly entertainment options, etc...)

 

[lugnut33]

For on-site guests, I don't know what more Disney could do. I got the message with at least two set of snail mail and automatic emails when it was time to make ADRs and FP+ reservations. Plus, every time I called, they reminded me as well.

For people off-site, I'm not sure how Disney could reach them - they don't know when or if they are coming.

And what if you're making a vacation reservation at 4 months out? Or lets say 6 weeks out? I don't know about anybody else, but I could easily plan a great vacation to say NYC a month out from travel.

 

[Darcy03231]

I'm going to say both to some degree, but put more of it on Disney.

We travel a lot. Disney is the only vacation that requires hours of preplanning and booking dining reservations 180 days in advance. I won't comment on fastpass+ because we haven't been since it (and magic bands) were implemented. We've taken vacations where we spent a lot more, but planned a lot less that we have at Disney, and had a great time. We ate at all of the places we wanted to and did all of things we wanted without any preplanning whatsoever.

We spent 10 days in Orlando in August 2015. While I bought my tickets ahead of time for US/IOA and SeaWorld and had reserved the rental house and car, I didn't make any other reservations. We ate at a lot of nice places and didn't make a reservation for any of them (and I thought the food was better than what we experienced the last time we were at WDW). We made our decision about where to go for the day either the night before or the morning of.

Honestly, the amount of work that has to go into planning a Disney vacation now is one of the reason we're taking a break. I don't want to have to do that much work to go on vacation.

 

[MrInfinity]

It's so interesting how people say others who are going there by the millions and having a wonderful time are "missing out" because they do not book the same type of experiences that Dis'ers consider desirable. Maybe to someone out here, if you don't get CRT, BOG, several pre-open ADRs, BBB in the park, and FP+'s that line up in perfect order to the hardest to get attractions, then a trip is a fail. While it is so true that some planners might consider that a fail, it's just not that way to other more typical guests. This is assuming that other people value the results that you do, thus they should do the planning you do, or be disappointed as you would be.

All of these benefits are only a benefit to the planners. They are not really desirable things to a newbie. First time we went to Disneyland... we did not plan, we just went. We found out about the Blue Bayou, and wanted to eat there. Nope, couldn't. Oh well. We didn't. Trip was wonderful. First time we went to WDW (in recent years), we found out about CRT. Asked how to get in, and couldn't. Trip was wonderful. These things are just not that important to most guests. Most guests want to ride way less and are far more tolerant of typical amusement park waits than some folks who mastered the old FP- system and never waited.

Disney has no fault here. People are having magical trips left and right, and those who set out to get something particularly rare can do so by advance planning, but those things will not be missed by someone going for the first time. These people might actually ENJOY waiting in line for the HM, checking out the graveyard instruments and stuff, and thinking about how much better the waits are than at a local Six Flags... or eating during the all-important rope-drop time. Someone on the Dis who's been 10 times might think they're wasting their time if they can't get on the HM via FastPass. It's all a matter of how much you've been and how much you still enjoy the little things.

And really, it's good most people are this way. Because they are, we are able to get more. Whether it be by FP-, FP+, or knowing optimal times to get ADRs or special events, we have and edge to get the things we want. That's a good thing. To us.

 

[eliza61]

And what if you're making a vacation reservation at 4 months out? Or lets say 6 weeks out? I don't know about anybody else, but I could easily plan a great vacation to say NYC a month out from travel.

Hey Lugnut,
I dare say you could plan a great trip to NYC FOR CHRISTMAS and still get to see and do quite a bit. You would be able to get theater tickets, dinner ressies and a great place to stay.

Can the same be said about Disney?

 

[lugnut33]

Hey Lugnut,
I dare say you could plan a great trip to NYC FOR CHRISTMAS and still get to see and do quite a bit. You would be able to get theater tickets, dinner ressies and a great place to stay.

Can the same be said about Disney?

Interesting you say that, because that's exactly what I'm doing. We were originally going to WDW for Christmas (actually have the plane tickets already), but after our August trip to WDW we decided to switch to NYC.

 

[LilyWDW]

If you are old enough to book a vacation with Disney, then you are old enough to have responsibility for said vacation. You are also old enough to know about the internet and old enough to know that commercials don't show the truth on how things actually are."Not knowing" is simply an excuse as is blaming Disney for the failures of one's trip. If one decides to travel somewhere with 0 planning, well, then it is 100% on them.

 

[smiths02]

I think the difference is "reasonable and expected". for example using the DC scenario. Most people on the planet know that you can't roll up to the White house or the Capital due to the security issues and if you have ever experienced the President coming to town or in my case the Pope, you "expect" that there will be issues to navigate.


Disney does not do this, they make no mention of the hassles in their advertisements, nor should they have to.

I am willing to bet the Average vacation traveler does not normally make the "D-day, troops invading normandy" type of plans that a Disney vacation now requires. ON top of that, you are now to the point that you cannot simply sit back and "enjoy" your vacation. any deviation from plans is starting to require Herculean efforts to change. I posted a thread when I got back about the hassle it was to change a fp+ for a second park while you are still at the first park. OMG!! I've read tax codes that were simpler.

Like I said the last 4 years I've been heavy into doing as much of Europe as I can afford and yes while many attractions that may require a year in advance reservations, they are usually one or two. at Disney it's darn near all or nothing.

Now the second problem with Disney is what I consider "consequences". going back to the DC example, if I don't get into the white house while disappointing it would not be catastrophic, just way to much other stuff to do. not so with the mouseworld. While the website does encourage you to use fp+ they do not mention that if you don't log on exactly at 12:01 on your 60 day window you very well could get locked out of major rides.
If you don't have park hoppers you could very well end up with a first timer who is in a park doing small time rides.

I agree that Disney takes it to another level. I really think they should dial back ADR window and FP window. I think it would be more "fair."

(About the White House, I did know you can't just get it, but I honestly didn't know it was at least 21 days notice and submitting to a member of congress to get a visit. )

I think you can still have fun, though.

I grew up going to Disneyland when (gasp!) there were NO such thing as FP. I ALWAYS waited in line for rides like HM and PotC (unless you did them first thing or during parades/fireworks). I know it's different, but I never ate with a princess at Disneyland or at any table service there...still had fun.

 

[Happy_2_B]

We travel a lot, and when going somewhere that we have not been before- we buy guidebooks, do internet research, as well as pick the brains of our B&B hosts or other locals when we can. This isn't just about Disney- it's about ANY vacation someone takes- regardless of where it is. Failure to plan rests on the people taking the vacation- and nowhere else. The information is out there. If people are unwilling- for whatever reason- to find the information and use it to increase the enjoyment of their vacation it's their problem.

 

[MagentaMulan]

Disney shouldn't force any guests to make all of these plans. It's not Disney going on these trips, it's guests who are. WDW is a huge place and I don't think it's fair to compare that to the experiences at smaller theme parks.

As the only planner in my small family and honestly the only person who knows how to use the internet. I take full responsibility to make sure I learn all that there is to know. For myself and for my parents. I'm very new to the Disney parks and planning on such a "big scale", but I PLAN! I never thought I shouldn't plan because it was too much for a newbie like me. I joined Disboards and followed Disney fan info sites, bought a ebook and used planning guides from these sites. I always like to gain as much information before I visit anywhere because not having a plan stresses me out. Do I plan every second that I'm awake at Disney or plan to see everything, of course not.

 

[DisneyMandC]

When we took our honeymoon trip in April, I had not had a "real" (for me that is staying on-site, ADRs, Disney transportation) Disney vacation since 2005, when I was 15. DH and I did drive over from a hotel just outside Orlando in 2012, but it was just a day by day, no ADR-type deal, eating CS only. So when I started planning for our big honeymoon trip, I was really on my own planning my first Disney vacation. And I STILL figured it all out. I had not found the DIS when I booked that trip, and still easily found enough on the Disney website and just by looking at some links on Pinterest to know I needed to book my ADRs and choose FP+ 60 days out. And, for the record, I booked less than 180 days out and still got BOG and CRT.

It really isn't that hard to figure out how to do this stuff. I was thrilled when I found the DIS because it provided so many insider tips, but I definitely didn't know as much before then as I do now, and still planned and had a great time.

 

[gursk]

A couple of things to add.
1. People who are not internet savvy enough to utilize online message boards/forums are really missing out. The first thing I did after booking was Google "Disney World forum" and voila!

On a related note, I find it VERY frustrating that Google has removed the option to search 'Discussions'. That made thing sooooo much easier when looking for more esoteric or opinion-based information on specific topics (like Disney planning!). I've found a browser extension that does what it can to replicate the functionality, but it's an approximation; plus, Google keeps prompting me to prove I'm not a bot with the unusual search strings it produces, so that can be frustrating. So even the internet savvy among us may not be able to locate what we are looking for when creating our Disney attack plan.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Not really. Disney requires a lot of research and planning if you are trying to go with a detailed schedule. It doesn't require all that much if you want to wing it at a slow time with a smaller party but you do still need to do a little preparation.

I have no desire to pre-plan everything 180 or even 7 days out so I don't go during peak times, don't try and coordinate a bunch of different parties, and don't have my heart set on any extremely hard to get reservations be it ADRs or FP+s. My wife and I tend to just go with the flow and if there is something we can't do this trip we'll try again next time. If we are traveling with other families we make our reservations and let them take care of theirs. I would have to have a head injury before I linked everyone to my MDE account and started to coordinate a large group of people at Disney. No thank you.

We were down there for 8 days (5 park days) this past June, did very little pre-planning, and still had a great time. It can be done.

Yes, if you don't care what you do there, you can go without doing a lot of planning. And of course, if you can just go back soon, that helps. But other people are working under different constraints.

 

[gursk]

And it is not true that at WDW there is NO restaurant availability. There may not be availability at the park you are in, or the restaurant you want. But there will be availability somewhere.

Running a search on the WDW site for lunch this afternoon for a party of 4 turns up a total of 34 available restaurants, including Akershus, Le Cellier, Tony's Town Square, nearly every other Epcot restaurant, Yak and Yeti and the Hollywood Brown Derby. So anyone waiting until today to book a reservation would be able to eat somewhere in each park. That won't help you if what you really wanted was CRT or Mama Melrose, but it's not true that there is no availability at all.

Totally agree, but not everyone has, or travels with, a smartphone. Incomprehensible to some of us (read:ME), but not having access to MDE on their phone would make finding table availability an arduous march around the park. Hangry marching. Not fun.

 

[gursk]

I have to admit to being a over-planner as well, but I get a great deal of enjoyment out of it. More enjoyment, perhaps, than the actual trip itself.

What a Great Trip! And I’m Not Even There Yet

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/11/travel/what-a-great-trip-and-im-not-even-there-yet.html

"Wish you were on vacation right now? Don’t. Taking a vacation won’t necessarily make you happier. But anticipating it will.
...
As anyone who has taken a vacation knows, they can be rife with complications: flight delays, illness, family squabbles. And when you get home you have to catch up on all the work you missed. That’s not to suggest that vacations don’t bring us joy, but social scientists have been saying for years that we get an extra happiness boost if we consciously delay any type of pleasure — be it booking a trip to Bali months in advance or eating that sliver of chocolate cake tomorrow instead of today. Doing this allows us to build up positive expectations, to relish how enjoyable the experience might be."

Another piece, along the same tack.

How Vacations Affect Your Happiness
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/how-vacations-affect-your-happiness/

"Researchers from the Netherlands set out to measure the effect that vacations have on overall happiness and how long it lasts. They studied happiness levels among 1,530 Dutch adults, 974 of whom took a vacation during the 32-week study period.

The study, published in the journal Applied Research in Quality of Life, showed that the largest boost in happiness comes from the simple act of planning a vacation. In the study, the effect of vacation anticipation boosted happiness for eight weeks.

After the vacation, happiness quickly dropped back to baseline levels for most people."

 

[ArwenMarie]

I have to admit to being a over-planner as well, but I get a great deal of enjoyment out of it. More enjoyment, perhaps, than the actual trip itself.

What a Great Trip! And I’m Not Even There Yet

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/11/travel/what-a-great-trip-and-im-not-even-there-yet.html

"Wish you were on vacation right now? Don’t. Taking a vacation won’t necessarily make you happier. But anticipating it will.
...
As anyone who has taken a vacation knows, they can be rife with complications: flight delays, illness, family squabbles. And when you get home you have to catch up on all the work you missed. That’s not to suggest that vacations don’t bring us joy, but social scientists have been saying for years that we get an extra happiness boost if we consciously delay any type of pleasure — be it booking a trip to Bali months in advance or eating that sliver of chocolate cake tomorrow instead of today. Doing this allows us to build up positive expectations, to relish how enjoyable the experience might be."

Another piece, along the same tack.

How Vacations Affect Your Happiness
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/how-vacations-affect-your-happiness/

"Researchers from the Netherlands set out to measure the effect that vacations have on overall happiness and how long it lasts. They studied happiness levels among 1,530 Dutch adults, 974 of whom took a vacation during the 32-week study period."

The study, published in the journal Applied Research in Quality of Life, showed that the largest boost in happiness comes from the simple act of planning a vacation. In the study, the effect of vacation anticipation boosted happiness for eight weeks.

After the vacation, happiness quickly dropped back to baseline levels for most people."

These are really interesting articles. I wonder though if WDW has gone over the tipping point to the side where it is a bit too much planning now.

 

[BudgieMama]

Apart from when we go to Lundy Island (it's tiny: 3 miles by 1/4 mile) our holidays involve planning and research. When we don't do the research, we miss out. We went to North Wales and didn't pre-book the train up to the Snowdon Summit. We ended up getting the last seats on the last train for the day, and had to waste nearly 6 hours waiting for that train on a not-very-nice day.

NYC required a lot of trawling sites for opening times, best visiting info, we were months too late to get tickets to visit anything other than the island the Statue of Liberty stands on, and we missed loads of stuff we wanted to do.

In contrast, at least with WDW it's all one company you're dealing with. It was much easier to get the info we needed thanks to places like the DIS, and we had a great first trip... my DH didn't believe me when I said it would take as much work as other places we'd gone, but he was grateful of it once we got there!

 

[mickeymom629]

A coworker just got back from a Wed-Sun trip. Stayed at ASSports. Surprised her kids ages 5 & 7 on Tuesday night. Had FPs scheduled by TA, I think. Bought dining plan (said it was way too much food).

She did a lot, but not all of what she hoped and said MK was so crowded on Sat (they also went Thurs). Jedi Training that was scheduled was cancelled, couldn't get a BBB reservation, decided not to do ETwB because her daughter was having a melt down. They did HS on Fri.

She said they all had a great time and marveled at how many employees Disney has and how they all work so hard to make things nice for the guests.

It was so nice to hear positive from someone, who had the right outlook!! Thought I'd share.