Is Bob Chapek ruining the Parks experience?

[Kbrb]

The issue is with increase in cost overall (much of it hidden like Genie+, ILL$, in-park food, resort parking) with a simultaneous decrease in service (customer service waits, fastpass+, DME) leading to an overall decrease in experience. Others have said it much better in this thread so I'm not going to go into details again. Because alot of the cost is designed to be hidden (doesn't show up when families price flights/hotels/park tickets) it will not have a proportional decrease in attendance.

If you want an example of increased cost with decreased experience, at face value Genie+ looks like Fastpass+, but with the latter you could plan from the comfort of your home and just relax during the visit. With Genie+ you have to wake up at 7am and have to check and recheck during the day (there is always the stress and the double guessing while you're supposed to be relaxing). During busy days it is likely nothing good will be available for 3rd selection..so it's like paying 8$ per Genie+ ride. Without Fastpass+ you really need to rope drop now, and there is nothing less relaxing than rope drop at Disney with young children...

Great post. Your average none DIS non DIBB user will book a trip with no real idea of the hidden costs. I crunched some numbers in the UK thread about the changes to our tickets. Roughly its put £700 of extra costs ontop of the package if you want something like the experience pre Covid.

 

[HopperFan]

If Disney was how it is now back during our first trip (paid fast pass, no transport to/from airport, park reservations with 2pm park hopper, etc) we would have never gone back and Disney would miss all that repeat revenue and significant amount of “one time customer” revenue we brought to parks with us.

This is where I think they have been shortsighted. For MANY years Disney has been catering to the one and done, once every five years BIG SPENDING families. They were their target market, making them believe they had to buy everything, dine everywhere they could, do dessert parties, stay on property etc. I think Disney (Chapek) has convinced themselves that these folks will continue to drop this kind of money on a rolling basis because ... it's Disney!

Well, a pandemic hit and many people are re-evaluating their travel, where they live, how they live, how they spend ............ and they will more closely scrutinize their travel plans based on what they are getting for it or where they have to travel to. Some won't travel where the experience is more limited like cruises, Disney etc. Some won't travel anywhere they have to mask or is high risk, some won't travel if they have to do before/during/after testing, some won't travel where they are in close quarters (cruise) ... and that all ties to AM I GETTING MY MONIES WORTH. We are "hardcore", 4-6 weeks a years, annual passes, 140+ onsite stays and many offsite ..... we helped many plan their trips. If someone were to ask me now I would tell them not to go. The entire place is in upheaval, customer service doesn't exist, masks are still required, dining is still limited and hard to get, Genie+ is in guinea pig stage ... and the list goes on.

While my family members have been to Tokyo and Paris, we had not been to Disneyland. Trip was finally all booked and then COVID-cancelled. We are not planning to go back until there are no masks etc. So all that money we were spending is on hold until times are better.

They are alienating many who they relied on for bottom line income. While they alienate, other places are embracing their guests. Universal will be opening another park, likely more hotels and it will truly be a game changer in Orlando. They already offer nicer and less expensive lodging, some including xpress pass. The new park will be close to adult fun on International. I think when the new park opens we'll see even more perks and for the first time a theme park war will be in play. Disney has to remember LOTS if not the majority of their guests are adults, so Universal is a threat for their dollars. Disney is not looking forward with their decisions and all this nickel and diming will likely cost them much more.

We hadn’t been to Disney in years but used to be annual pass holders, have stayed at nearly all the resorts, used to go to the Halloween and Christmas parties, ran all the Disney races….

We we thinking about going back but damn, checked prices and benefits. This is not the Disney I knew. As much as I’d like to, we won’t be going back unless things change. Parking fee for resorts? Paying for FastPass? Even the $400 Florida Resident annual pass…. excludes weekends.

And sure, we can afford it but the value is not there. Way too many other places to see…..

We have this pass and it is a HUGE VALUE. I go next week and in the five days we will be there - we would have already broken even. We have three more five day trips planned so far and those days are basically free. We'll likely squeak in two more trips before renewal. So while it doesn't work for some, it works very well for others who consider it a great value. I'm sure there are plenty like us who avoid Disney on weekends anyway so the block out dates are no issue.

 

[Ruttangel]

I just feel like SHOUTING

 

[wfjny]

See, now I feel like we are having a conversation I can sink my teeth into and we are talking level....

You make some great points here.

As you say, we have known this “existential moment” to be coming for quite a while now. For years there has been talk of a “fifth gate”, and for a couple of years prior to the pandemic, I have been saying there is no need. At that point, Disney was increasing the amount both the after hour parties as well as what I called the pre-parties (Their early morning magic). As the number of after parties increased in both the sheer number of them as well as the adding the various other parks, it was very easy to see that it would not be long before they had an extra 365 “Hard Ticket” events a year. Effectively a fifth gate, using existing infrastructure. The best part, from Disney point of view, those pesky AP holders are not included. You have to pay to play. And, if there is some sort of unexpected economic downturn, canceling some of those events is a lot easier than maintaining another park.

As a shareholder, yeah I get anything to bring in more money. But as a passholder, and a DVC owner, I don’t want to see them kill the magic, or price it outside of what their “bread and Butter” customers can afford. Like you, I understand the different BUs of the company. I too understand what they are doing, and why.

I guess my point is, once people change their pattern, it is hard to go back. We see that with the pandemic. People switched much of their shopping to Amazon, and they are not going to go back. Curbside pickup is a thing to stay. So, if those people that used to take a yearly trip to Disney now try other places, they have lost a customer. And probably not a customer that decides, sure, starting in 2025 we will go back to annual trips. For others, the way they “Do Disney” may also permanently change. Instead of spending a whole day in the parks, eating Disney food, and drinking Disney drinks, people may choose to visit for a few hours, and then head off-site for a while. You may make some money with Genie+, but you lose the food and snack sales.

Of course, that is easier if you have a car. Without DME, more people may choose that option.

If you make it a playground for the rich, well, that will bring you some big money quickly. However, the “rich” re not going to return year after year.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

As you say, we have known this “existential moment” to be coming for quite a while now. For years there has been talk of a “fifth gate”, and for a couple of years prior to the pandemic, I have been saying there is no need.

You make some excellent points. I think we all agree that there are potential ways to handle increasing crowds, and for many reasons a fifth gate may not be the answer or as I mentioned, I am not sure that it even meets the long term goals of individual guest experiences.

I guess my point is, once people change their pattern, it is hard to go back. We see that with the pandemic. People switched much of their shopping to Amazon, and they are not going to go back.

Totally get what you are saying. I am not even disagreeing. There are parts to what Disney is doing that I am not sure I like and parts I certainly do not like. What I *am* saying is that I think this goes to a bigger issue than just Chapek. Saying that 'Chapek is ruining Disney' is a very myopic and incorrect viewpoint.

Additionally, I do not think it's all about the cost of services or that they have their sights set solely on the cost of the shares. I do not even think that share price point is the driving force (or even a significant driving force other than that it reflects the relative successfulness of the company).

I think the driving force is the management (not Chapek... the management team's) future vision of what a Disney experience looks like. It would be more accurate to say "I am concerned with the direction that Disney is going with WDW". If that were what the thread was about, I would be in abject agreement.

 

[twincruisers]

How long will that hold? Are we about to see holidays as usual? Disney won’t want those crowds dipping too low and can release a package discount at any time to fill up the resorts/parks but I suspect staffing issues are still making those decisions for them. Does anyone know how Disney is doing in that area?

I have no confidence that the park attendance will stay low. It’s a staffing issue IMO.

when Disney can fill the parks to 100% they will. I think the high prices are here to help offset the lower attendance due to limited staff. As those bottlenecks get resolved, so will attendance rise.

 

[twincruisers]

The issue is with increase in cost overall (much of it hidden like Genie+, ILL$, in-park food, resort parking) with a simultaneous decrease in service (customer service waits, fastpass+, DME) leading to an overall decrease in experience. Others have said it much better in this thread so I'm not going to go into details again. Because alot of the cost is designed to be hidden (doesn't show up when families price flights/hotels/park tickets) it will not have a proportional decrease in attendance.

If you want an example of increased cost with decreased experience, at face value Genie+ looks like Fastpass+, but with the latter you could plan from the comfort of your home and just relax during the visit. With Genie+ you have to wake up at 7am and have to check and recheck during the day (there is always the stress and the double guessing while you're supposed to be relaxing). During busy days it is likely nothing good will be available for 3rd selection even if you're familiar with Genie+ strategies and are on your phone before 7am..so it's like paying 8$ per Genie+ ride (and you can bet Disney will be increasing this introductory price like everything else). Without Fastpass+ you really need to rope drop now, and there is nothing less relaxing than rope drop at Disney with young children...

That doesn't mean you can't have a fun experience.. like you said you did. But the speed with which these negative changes have been made only shows total greed and disregard for fans.

Totally agree with you on all those points. There are a lot of hidden costs.

After trying TP and G+ the past week, I’m comfortable staying with TP and plan my day around low tide hours than trying to maximize via Disney’s pay options.

The Guest Experience line was crazy long on Oct 20th when I walked by. Lots of G+ Paying customers frustrated with the experience and the lack of communication.

I imagine Disney will do a mea culpa and lower Prices and offer some free benefits short of what was previously offered to bring the crowd back. But for now, max revenue from the few guests we can get in the door.

 

[billlaurie]

Blaming the changes on a singular person may be shortsighted, but for me, Disney has lost its appeal. It used to feel like an all inclusive vacation, with dining, transportation, lodging, and entertainment included in your package. Now, the nickel and diming EVERYTHING, decrease in benefits, excessive price increases, and especially the increase in effort required to achieve the magic, has completely turned me off. It is too much work, plain and simple. For the first time in a lot of years, I am not itching to go to Disney. We will see what the future brings, but right now, I have no desire to come back. And to me, that's really sad!

 

[HopperFan]

I can't help but to feel that ever since Bob Chapek took the helm, Disney has been more focused on short-term profit at the expense of long-term consumer sentiment.

I saw this article when it was released and it seems to point to .... yes, Chapek is driving the company in this "direction" and there might not be complete support for his DisMart theory ... which is why Iger is still on board. And Chapek's aggressive reorganization and change put all we are complaining about right at his feet.

Honestly they screwed up big when they let Staggs leave ... leaving them with virtually no one to replace Iger. Chapek got the job because there was no one else, not because he was a good fit for the job. A failure on the part of the Board. It wouldn't shock me if at some point Chapek is tossed under the bus and gone. Between the pandemic and his lack of understanding it is a creative business, not just "data" ... he may not be able keep or draw talent, drive the film industry (highly creative people) and connect with the parks ultimate customers. I just hope the good ones will stay long enough to see him walked out the door.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/b...disney-exit-bob-chapek-succession-1235025504/

 

[MickMick]

The changes enacted under his leadership don’t make me excited to go.

I’m a Mickey. I love all things Disney. But this will likely be my last trip for a while. The very thought of packing power packs in my park bag is causing some heartburn.

My elderly mother said, “There’s too much to understand now. Your dad and I would have been at a loss with the focus on technology. I won’t return after this.”

I will go back to ride Tron, but after that I won’t be in a rush to return.

 

[lpandorf]

Blaming the changes on a singular person may be shortsighted, but for me, Disney has lost its appeal. It used to feel like an all inclusive vacation, with dining, transportation, lodging, and entertainment included in your package. Now, the nickel and diming EVERYTHING, decrease in benefits, excessive price increases, and especially the increase in effort required to achieve the magic, has completely turned me off. It is too much work, plain and simple. For the first time in a lot of years, I am not itching to go to Disney. We will see what the future brings, but right now, I have no desire to come back. And to me, that's really sad!

Agree with this. We used to go every year. Loved how the magical express was included, my bags were delivered to my room, could check-in for the airline at bell services. Halloween and Christmas parties started earlier - could get in at 4pm for the 7pm party. Pricing out a December trip, seeing we'll be paying a lot more for less experience I am looking at non-Disney trips now.

 

[Lsyves]

Here now and my husband has pointed out that the way things are set up it’s either to get more money out of us or to prevent liability lawsuits. From the little things like fences and gates everywhere, crazy loud beeping when the busses lower their platforms, and then to the big things like $15 per person for ROTR on top of Genie + on top of the park tickets. CMs telling us to put our masks on when we are the only ones on the Skyliner and $5 waters in the parks-it’s all annoying and takes away from the experience.

Really low crowds but high wait times because there’s less to do in the parks. Walls all over Epcot. Outdated attractions. Shows being closed but park ticket prices being the same or more. Housekeeping almost nonexistent in a deluxe resort but price is still high. Bus service worse than in the past and I’ve complained to Disney about the busses for probably 20 years

I had a feeling this would be our last trip and now I know it is. We leave tomorrow and we still have had a fun visit but the value of what we got for what we paid is much lower than ever before. Sad but now we will go see other parts of the world I guess!

 

[MassJester]

I’m a bit stoic about price increases. Everything I do is experiencing skyrocketing prices (I paid $71 for a steak at a local restaurant two weeks ago—and Mickey didn’t visit the table once).

I am concerned about the quality of the experience. Labor shortages resulting in things like narrowed housekeeping, and supply chain problems resulting in diminished dining experiences (see California Grill) are problematic for me.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I’m a bit stoic about price increases. Everything I do is experiencing skyrocketing prices (I paid $71 for a steak at a local restaurant two weeks ago—and Mickey didn’t visit the table once).

I am concerned about the quality of the experience. Labor shortages resulting in things like narrowed housekeeping, and supply chain problems resulting in diminished dining experiences (see California Grill) are problematic for me.

The fact that Chapek can’t even be bothered to prioritize parking trams restarting is really concerning. Even Six Flags has parking trams.

 

[MassJester]

The fact that Chapek can’t even be bothered to prioritize parking trams restarting is really concerning. Even Six Flags has parking trams.

I suspect, and it is only a suspicion as I have no data points, that staffing restaurants and hotels—as they are revenue producers—is taking priority.

 

[FCDub]

It’s wild that people think Bob Chapek sits there and says “no don’t bring parking lot trams back”

Makes for a good whipping boy but so not how large corporations work.

 

[Turksmom]

It’s wild that people think Bob Chapek sits there and says “no don’t bring parking lot trams back”

Makes for a good whipping boy but so not how large corporations work.

Fine! But then he doesn't get credit for the return of the Ohana noodles!

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I suspect, and it is only a suspicion as I have no data points, that staffing restaurants and hotels—as they are revenue producers—is taking priority.

The parks are also revenue producing. It’s just abject stupidity on the part of Disney to not get those trams running. Customer satisfaction is going ot be pretty low after someone has to trek 2 miles on hot asphalt.

 

[shawthorne44]

And Disney Land just announced a parking price increase effective very soon, and the trams will be back 2022-ish.
Someone really had their head up their *** with that one.
Just like the grand-poo-bah gets all the praise (and the money) they also get all the blame. The Buck Stops with them. I'm ready to toss Cheap-ek under the bus and then back it up.

 

[Kbrb]

It’s wild that people think Bob Chapek sits there and says “no don’t bring parking lot trams back”

Makes for a good whipping boy but so not how large corporations work.

he’s the end of the line. He would sign off of cost cutting measures he has the ultimate say so. Did he cut the trams? No can he put them back tomorrow? Yes.

The mandate to cut services and increase cost was done with his approval.