Is Bob Chapek ruining the Parks experience?

[DL1WDW2]

I ran the numbers yesterday for kicks but now I'm seriously considering it. I priced out our Disney trip for DH & I over Easter Week. Nine nights-2 at POR & 7 at BWI in a garden view room w/ 8 day tix w/ PH's (BEFORE food, drinks, etc). I also priced out 10 days in Milan & Venice Italy on a river cruise w/ a higher end cruise line (w/ all food, drinks & admission to sites, etc INCLUDED). The Italy trip came in almost $2,000 cheaper than Disney! Now we're thinking of canceling Disney & going to Italy instead. Disney was never a good value for the dollar but it was still worth the cost because of the enjoyment we got out of going. It hurts to say it but Disney just isn't as enjoyable anymore.

I wish the Exec's would just get back to the basics & before making decisions ask themselves "What would Walt want?"? After all, if it wasn't for him & his (and Roy's) vision none of them would be working for the Disney company.

Thanks for the vent, I feel better now....

Thank you for remembering Roy Disney today, October 25,1971
Mr. Roy Disney dedicated the plaque to commemorate the opening of the Magic Kingdom on Main Street

 

[disneyseniors]

As to the original question? Yes, it's Chapek PLUS all the other clueless millionaires in upper management. IMO.

 

[Jonfw2]

As to the original question? Yes, it's Chapek PLUS all the other clueless millionaires in upper management. IMO.

So…Walt was a millionaire, right? And Roy?

 

[FCDub]

So…Walt was a millionaire, right? And Roy?

No, not them – the other millionaires!

 

[Beer Me]

I can’t say for sure as I haven’t been to the parks since 2019. What I can say is that changes to the parks have made me put off any plans to visit indefinitely. I’m waiting to see how things shake out over the next year or two. Right now it just doesn’t seem like it would be as fun as my last trip was.

 

[Jonfw2]

No, not them – the other millionaires!

Oh right! Just the other ones!

 

[kilik64]

Wait so if not for all those clueless millionaires the parks would be perfect?

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I can’t say for sure as I haven’t been to the parks since 2019. What I can say is that changes to the parks have made me put off any plans to visit indefinitely. I’m waiting to see how things shake out over the next year or two. Right now it just doesn’t seem like it would be as fun as my last trip was.

wait… a logical conclusion. Clearly you’re in the wrong board.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Id also add this impression you seem to have that no one else is involved in business decisions is incredibly naive as many of us come from much bigger companies with much bigger budgets then you laid out.

im going by what I see. If you have worked in a large company structured at all like Disney with any kind of budget, you would know that at no point is anyone going “you know, since we’re not conttuining DME, we could give a discount, but that would affect our stock price “.

thats just not how it works. DME is one small peg in a much larger calculus.

again, I judge but what I see. If you work in a large company, acknowledge reality… Chapek is no more or less to blame than others. Disney is dealing with the same pandemic as the rest of the world, and these things are not just a question of cost. You can say you don’t like it, but at least acknowledge how and where decisions are made.

 

[Leight19]

im going by what I see. If you have worked in a large company structured at all like Disney with any kind of budget, you would know that at no point is anyone going “you know, since we’re not conttuining DME, we could give a discount, but that would affect our stock price “.

thats just not how it works. DME is one small peg in a much larger calculus.

again, I judge but what I see. If you work in a large company, acknowledge reality… Chapek is no more or less to blame than others. Disney is dealing with the same pandemic as the rest of the world, and these things are not just a question of cost. You can say you don’t like it, but at least acknowledge how and where decisions are made.

I think it’s a fair point but if Disney works similar to companies I’ve worked at we will have executives set goals based on certain metrics they focus on. Those cascade down divisions until each group creates goals that translate the vision from executives into tangible actions at every level. This same process is implemented when doing budgeting for hiring/training, capital investments, product purchases etc. The executives are not directly involved in all the day to day decisions but their presence is directly felt at every level as we try to have our teams realize their objectives. This is often how companies struggle to do “the right thing”; it’s not as though some evil person in a room is concocting how to rip people off but when an aggregate response focuses on the wrong aspects you can easily enact polices that are bad for customers, bad for employees, and bad for company long term.

Everything I’ve seen from discussion of chapek seem to indicate his focus is on maximizing per guest spending while minimizing per guest expenditures. He seems to think there is an excess product demand they currently can’t supply so does not seem as worried about converting guests to repeat customers (at least at world). This is consistent with many of the cuts and changes which seem to focus on short term profits. That said, he may be absolutely right about this decision and may maximize long term value for shareholders but it will take years to see how this plays out.

My personal story is an anecdote that shows he’s playing a dangerous game. My first trip to Disney was my wife dragging me there and me being confused as to why we were going to “kids park” (this was pre kids). That trip I was blown away with how much there was to do and loved how convenient everything was. Since then we have done yearly trips for more then a decade with exception of years we had children born. I’ve spent well over $50k on dvc and even with the room paid spend way more at Disney then all other vacations combined. I’ve personally brought many friends and families with us and encouraged many people to go who likely wouldn’t have without my strong recommendation. If Disney was how it is now back during our first trip (paid fast pass, no transport to/from airport, park reservations with 2pm park hopper, etc) we would have never gone back and Disney would miss all that repeat revenue and significant amount of “one time customer” revenue we brought to parks with us.

 

[Duanerice]

We hadn’t been to Disney in years but used to be annual pass holders, have stayed at nearly all the resorts, used to go to the Halloween and Christmas parties, ran all the Disney races….

We we thinking about going back but damn, checked prices and benefits. This is not the Disney I knew. As much as I’d like to, we won’t be going back unless things change. Parking fee for resorts? Paying for FastPass? Even the $400 Florida Resident annual pass…. excludes weekends.

And sure, we can afford it but the value is not there. Way too many other places to see…..

 

[tano]

And even before Genie+ gets rolled out to DL California, resort parking increased today from 25$ to 40$ and peak day pricing increased (don't remember how much, but possibly 10-15$). Do they seriously think parents have a choice when their kids get school holidays?? Does anyone in their right mind goes to Disney over Christmas if they had a choice?

I've never been to DL but have been to WDW many many times with the kids. I expect there will be a price announcement for there soon enough. Not enough that ticket prices effectively went up for many people with Genie+ and ILL$.

I will still be going to Florida 3x a year a year as we do.. now instead of spending 10-12 days at Disney every year we will be spending 1 day each visit at Epcot which is my favorite park mainly for World Showcase and fortunately there isn't much value for Genie+ there...

 

[Disney mac]

And even before Genie+ gets rolled out to DL California, resort parking increased today from 25$ to 40$ and peak day pricing increased (don't remember how much, but possibly 10-15$). Do they seriously think parents have a choice when their kids get school holidays?? Does anyone in their right mind goes to Disney over Christmas if they had a choice?

I've never been to DL but have been to WDW many many times with the kids. I expect there will be a price announcement for there soon enough. Not enough that ticket prices effectively went up for many people with Genie+ and ILL$.

I will still be going to Florida 3x a year a year as we do.. now instead of spending 10-12 days at Disney every year we will be spending 1 day each visit at Epcot which is my favorite park mainly for World Showcase and fortunately there isn't much value for Genie+ there...

It's not just parents having a choice. I have said for years that it's obvious Disney hates teachers and charges them more than anyone else. Imagine being a teacher that has no choice but to pay to go during the most expensive time periods. I was able to explain to some of my teacher friends why Genie+ was not just included in the ticket price increase...this way they can KEEP raising the prices of both of these in future years and make more than just raising ticket prices and have this garbage "dynamic" pricing. It is just all a huge money grab. Starting to think about how for a family of four, you are paying a $400+ cover charge to be able to pay $60 for some rides. Start doing a per ride cost at the end of any given day and a family will be paying more for a day or two than a plane ride to get there.
I wonder if Chapek and the rest of the board installed a Casino in their office to hear the jackpot noise constantly for their bonuses...

 

[twincruisers]

Having gone for the first time, I have bias’ towards WDW as non-returning guest. So I know this will be a minority opinion.

I liked my experience overall and I do think the lower crowds but at a higher $ makes sense. Instead of a packed park with a lot of unhappy guests, they get a partially filled one spending more per day. As a guest, I felt more attention paid to those who did show up and the shorter lines made me happier even if G+ and ILL$ did cut into that when launched.
im more likely to return if the crowds stay low than what I saw pre-pandemic.

Yes it costs more, but I found it easier not having to fight long lines all day.

 

[PaladinButters]

im more likely to return if the crowds stay low than what I saw pre-pandemic.

How long will that hold? Are we about to see holidays as usual? Disney won’t want those crowds dipping too low and can release a package discount at any time to fill up the resorts/parks but I suspect staffing issues are still making those decisions for them. Does anyone know how Disney is doing in that area?

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

TP doing a test comparison of Genie to their product isn't exactly what I would consider an objective analysis......LOL. Clearly they have a vested interest in continuing to get people to pay for their service.

Did you watch the comparisons? Genie’s free service is laughable. I don’t need touring plans to tell me that a service that recommends rope dropping the tree house at magic kingdom and Walt Disney presents at Hollywood studios is one of the stupidest things Disney has come up with in recent memory.

 

[Kbrb]

Yup international guests have been utterly thrown to the wolves.

Disney sell us 14 night breaks.

No magic express means we have to hire a LYFT XL to carry all our bags. We have to pay for international data on our cell plans.

Genie + over 14 days? family of 4? even if you used it half those days they cost is horrendous

Free dining plans they used to give us are gone replaced with meal vouchers worth alot less

They are currently getting ready to surge charge our tickets like you guys pay. Again over 14 days?

Increase in costs is huge for onsite stays, but runours are parking is going to $30!!!!!

When i was a kid disney was classed as "once in a life time for rich people" Sadly thats where we are now heading again. Anyone that thinks Bob isnt to blame is kidding themselves. Hes the the end of the line he has the ultimate say over decisions. I not saying he wanders the halls like somekind of money hungry grim reaper cutting persk and increasing prices on his own but ultimately he has the the power to YAY or NAY everything that happens.

There is a reason he choose not to the 50th in front of they crowd at MK....they would have booed him and possibly chucked food his way.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I think it’s a fair point but if Disney works similar to companies I’ve worked at we will have executives set goals based on certain metrics they focus on. Those cascade down divisions until each group creates goals that translate the vision from executives into tangible actions at every level. This same process is implemented when doing budgeting for hiring/training, capital investments, product purchases etc. The executives are not directly involved in all the day to day decisions but their presence is directly felt at every level as we try to have our teams realize their objectives. This is often how companies struggle to do “the right thing”; it’s not as though some evil person in a room is concocting how to rip people off but when an aggregate response focuses on the wrong aspects you can easily enact polices that are bad for customers, bad for employees, and bad for company long term.

Everything I’ve seen from discussion of chapek seem to indicate his focus is on maximizing per guest spending while minimizing per guest expenditures. He seems to think there is an excess product demand they currently can’t supply so does not seem as worried about converting guests to repeat customers (at least at world). This is consistent with many of the cuts and changes which seem to focus on short term profits. That said, he may be absolutely right about this decision and may maximize long term value for shareholders but it will take years to see how this plays out.

My personal story is an anecdote that shows he’s playing a dangerous game. My first trip to Disney was my wife dragging me there and me being confused as to why we were going to “kids park” (this was pre kids). That trip I was blown away with how much there was to do and loved how convenient everything was. Since then we have done yearly trips for more then a decade with exception of years we had children born. I’ve spent well over $50k on dvc and even with the room paid spend way more at Disney then all other vacations combined. I’ve personally brought many friends and families with us and encouraged many people to go who likely wouldn’t have without my strong recommendation. If Disney was how it is now back during our first trip (paid fast pass, no transport to/from airport, park reservations with 2pm park hopper, etc) we would have never gone back and Disney would miss all that repeat revenue and significant amount of “one time customer” revenue we brought to parks with us.

See, now I feel like we are having a conversation I can sink my teeth into and we are talking level. Here is part of my problem though. While I get what you are saying, when it comes to Disney in particular at least, the whole thing is further complicated because things like DME are provided services and not directly under the same BU as the hotel, and each hotel sets it's prices somewhat independently based on their expenses. The whole thing would be much simpler if it were under one BU and that BU just had a reduction by cutting out DME. But it doesn't work that way. It's even further complicated because there are SO MANY DRIVING FACTORS right now.

As a DVC owner, you see the balance statements (do not know how much you pay attention to them).To figure out cash room prices right now, you have to factor in the increase costs of staffing - not just due to the increase in pay that we agreed to before the pandemic which is still being phased in, but also because of trying to bring people back to work in the middle of a pandemic. You have increased utility costs. You have increased cleaning costs. You have decreased revenue because of the new safety protocols. You have PPE costs. You still have costs you are paying out for the busses and other transportation (guess what - those went up, too!). As resorts are trying to negotiate new perks, we are paying parks for that extra 30 minutes entrance and extra time after closing. Oh... and we are saving a few thousand a month (a drop in the bucket) for DME.

So... tell me exactly how you would market that? "Hey valued guest! Good news! Because we no longer have DME, we are reducing the cost of your room by $.50. Oh... but we are also increasing it by $60 due to all the other increased costs. So, there is that. But look on the bright side. At least it wasn't $60.50!". It's better to take the pill and be silent, because there just is not a good spin for it.

Second, I believe Disney is facing an existential moment. We have known it was coming for SOME TIME now. What we have not known is the solution. That is that WDW specifically has become such a popular vacation spot globally that it can not handle the crowds. The problem is that the more people you have, ironically, the less you get because the crowd sizes have become a detriment to the guest experience. There are only 2 solutions for this:
1. Make bigger and more parks
2. Reduce the number of people

If they can't or won't or are not ready to do 1, then they have to do 2. I think part of the equation right now is that a fifth gate is just not in the immediate cards - for a large number of reasons (and that's another conversation). So if we take it for granted that they are unwilling or unable to add a fifth gate, their only option is 2 assuming the status quo (prior to the pandemic is unacceptable).

If you look at all the things they have done lately - increasing costs, reducing some services, park reservations, etc - they are all aimed at #2.

Again, I know many of us do not like that this is what they are doing. There are parts to it I like and parts I do not. But I can clearly understand WHY they are doing what they are doing even if I may not love all of it.

But again, I do not think these things are aimed at the stock price (per se) anymore than that the success of the company is required for the stock price to continue to rise. They are aimed at how can Disney provide their future vision (which they have made clear is more about making each guest experience unique) when the crowds are so thick that there is no way to target individual guests with unique experiences. If that is their vision (and again, they have made clear it is), then the only answer to that is that you must thin the crowds first.

 

[tano]

Having gone for the first time, I have bias’ towards WDW as non-returning guest. So I know this will be a minority opinion.

I liked my experience overall and I do think the lower crowds but at a higher $ makes sense. Instead of a packed park with a lot of unhappy guests, they get a partially filled one spending more per day. As a guest, I felt more attention paid to those who did show up and the shorter lines made me happier even if G+ and ILL$ did cut into that when launched.
im more likely to return if the crowds stay low than what I saw pre-pandemic.

Yes it costs more, but I found it easier not having to fight long lines all day.

The issue is with increase in cost overall (much of it hidden like Genie+, ILL$, in-park food, resort parking) with a simultaneous decrease in service (customer service waits, fastpass+, DME) leading to an overall decrease in experience. Others have said it much better in this thread so I'm not going to go into details again. Because alot of the cost is designed to be hidden (doesn't show up when families price flights/hotels/park tickets) it will not have a proportional decrease in attendance.

If you want an example of increased cost with decreased experience, at face value Genie+ looks like Fastpass+, but with the latter you could plan from the comfort of your home and just relax during the visit. With Genie+ you have to wake up at 7am and have to check and recheck during the day (there is always the stress and the double guessing while you're supposed to be relaxing). During busy days it is likely nothing good will be available for 3rd selection even if you're familiar with Genie+ strategies and are on your phone before 7am..so it's like paying 8$ per Genie+ ride (and you can bet Disney will be increasing this introductory price like everything else). Without Fastpass+ you really need to rope drop now, and there is nothing less relaxing than rope drop at Disney with young children...

That doesn't mean you can't have a fun experience.. like you said you did. But the speed with which these negative changes have been made only shows total greed and disregard for fans.

 

[wfjny]

It's not just parents having a choice. I have said for years that it's obvious Disney hates teachers and charges them more than anyone else. Imagine being a teacher that has no choice but to pay to go during the most expensive time periods...

My wife also works for our local school system. Yes, it kills me that most of our trips have to take place when our schools (like most schools) are closed. Taking time off is just not really an option (she is staff, not a teacher).

Years ago when I lived in NY, I tried to get the private (Catholic) school my kids were in to change their schedule. I explained multiple times that moving "President's Week" to a different week would be great in so many ways. For working parents, imagine not having to take a week off from work the same week all the other working parents take off. I showed them the JetBlue website, and difference in price that even just a week would make for a variety of different trips. I showed them the Hilton Website where again, the cost of a hotel room would be substantially more during "President's Week" than the following week.

Obviously, I lost the argument every time. You cannot win a discussion with a Nun.