Is autism the illness du jour ?

[castleview]

So the more special ed children in a school, the bigger the drain on resources. Schools lose money in special ed, not gain it.

Just wanted to highlight that. When I hear people say "This city spends $12,000 per pupil, while private schools pay $2,000 per pupil and do a better job", well I want to scream and basically say what you just did.

 

[Poohgirl]

I usually won't even hop on autism threads because the plain ignorance makes my blood boil.

The other reason is that reading your posts bring tears to my eyes. I want to give all of you that live with autism affecting your lives a big hug and . Although every child with autism has different issues, I can relate to parts of all your stories. They bring back such painful memories of what we (and all of us) have gone through. In the moment you just do what you have to for your child. Looking back you realize how difficult it was, yet hopefully how far you have come.

 

[jack hannah bananah]

If this child has never been diagnosed, how can her assumption be right on the money?
This is exactly Savage's point. Here this teacher has already labled this child to explain his behavior.
Her assumption that he has this disorder may very well be correct, but without the proper testing how did she come up with her own diagnosis?

Good Point.

I believe her unofficial diagnosis is based on the time she has spent with him and her years dealing with these types of children.

When I said she was "right on the money" I meant by saying that this may explain his behavior but not excuse it.

 

[XTinabell]

I really didn't want to get anymore involved in this thread as I can see some people are getting heated. But I do want to support those on this thread that are frustrated because they're being told their autistic children could be faking. Unfortunately, like many mental illnesses, it's hard to understand if you don't know someone with the disease. While I still stand by what I said earlier about some parents opting out of parenting their autistic children, I do not believe in any way that these children suffering are pulling one over on their parents.

I think the confusion lies with those on the lower end of the spectrum, towards those with aspergers. Yes Aspergers is real, and is very hard on the child. But because people who don't know anyone personally close to them with the disease, and they (with aspergers) appear "normal" it's easy to think they might be faking.

I was told a story when I was learning about Aspergers from my stepmom who counsels children that I will share. This boy with Aspergers came into a room his was summoned, and the woman waiting for him said "Oh my! You've grown a foot since I saw you last!!" And the boy looked down at his feet because he thought he had actually grown another foot. So while these children appear the same, and are present, clearly something inside their brains just moves different than the rest of us.

 

[jack hannah bananah]

So here is what is on the putz's (isn't it great that this is unfiltered?) web site. Along with a link to his legal defense fund. It's ironic that he tries to come off as a disability rights crusader.

The Autism Controversy

My comments about autism were meant to boldly awaken parents and children to the medical community's attempt to label too many children or adults as "autistic."

Just as some drug companies have overdiagnosed "ADD" and "ADHD" to peddle dangerous speed-like drugs to children as young as 4 years of age, this cartel of doctors and drug companies is now creating a national panic by overdiagnosing "autism, for which there is no definitive medical diagnosis!

Many children are being victimized by being diagnosed with an "illness" which may not exist, in all cases. Just a few weeks ago doctors recommended dangerous anti-cholesterol drugs for children as young as 2 years of age! Without any scientific studies on the possible dangers of such drugs on children, corrupt doctors made this controversial, unscientific recommendation.

Increasingly, our children are being used as profit centers by a greedy, corrupt medical/pharmaceutical establishment. As the brother of a severely disabled person who suffered and died in a New York "snake-pit" of a "mental hospital," I know first-hand what true disability is.

To permit greedy doctors to include children in medical categories which may not be appropriate is a crime against that child and their family. Let the truly autistic be treated. Let the falsely diagnosed be free.

Michael Savage
http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/?pageId=1126

Yeap, it's them greedy doctors . . . must be feeding their internet and Disney addictions!?

I have to say, I don't think he said anything that bad here. He recognizes autism as a true disability, but is concerned about children being put on drugs unnecessarily. We all know that this happens in some medical communities. All he is saying here is that some are being misdiagnosed.
The problem was with his initial statement when he gave the 99%. But that is his over the top shock spin he puts on everything.

 

[jack hannah bananah]

You can keep going on and on about a non-issue, but it's just that - a non-issue.

The way I read the post - the poster didn't berate her friend. And, BTW, her friend "got it", and admitted that she was grateful for her child being who he is (not what he doesn't have).

I'm sick of these threads turning into an "us" vs. "them" debate. And quite frankly, by pursuing this poster and this non-issue - I think you're doing so to... . If her friend didn't take offense - why should you. I'm sure her friend has a greater insight to her motivation and intent.

I was just thinking this same thing. The us vs. them debate gets so out of hand. I think some of the responses on this discussion board are worse than Savage's response on his website... His initial comments were ridiculous and as I said before part of his shock spin.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I have to say, I don't think he said anything that bad here. He recognizes autism as a true disability, but is concerned about children being put on drugs unnecessarily. We all know that this happens in some medical communities. All he is saying here is that some are being misdiagnosed.
The problem was with his initial statement when he gave the 99%. But that is his over the top shock spin he puts on everything.

Jack
The problem is - this is his response to the controversy. You might want to Google what he actually said - it was mean and evil and the kind of speech that only inflames the issue.

 

[golfgal]

I know. Parents with average, regular, happy-go-lucky kids sometimes don't know how lucky they are. They have to pile on this pressure. I was talking to a mom 2 nights ago about her son's freshman year in high school. She says, "We are not happy with him at all. He got some C's. His GPA is a 3.2. We just don't know what's going on with him."

So I say, "Oh, were you hoping to send him to Harvard?"

She says, "Well, no, but I mean he got some C's" and I'm just looking at her and she pauses and starts laughing. "You know," she says softly, "he's a really good kid."

I said "That's great" and we parted ways.

The issue isn't the "C"'s it is working up to their potential. If all they were capable of was getting C's, great, awesome, however if a child is capable of getting A's and get's "C's" that is a very valid concern. Do you allow your child to just slide by and not work to his potential? Why would ANYONE think that is ok? How much do you fight to get the proper services for your child? What is the difference between that and wanting your child to do the best they can in school?

Look, you obviously don't get it. And, you should fall on your knees and thank whatever power you acknowledge with all your being that you don't get it. You ARE a 'casual observer', perhaps not an observer at all as you seem to have no understanding of autism. The reason the testing has become so rigorous is that many children with autism can be treated successfully if the details of their disability are correctly laid out -NOT because people are reaching for a diagnosis for an ill behaved child. Again, you are SO LUCKY that you do not have any understanding of the issue because it's a nightmare for the families who do. Count me in that group.

Ithink you are the one that is missing the point many are trying to make. NO ONE is saying that kids with a REAL autism diagnosis are faking anything. What IS happening is that people ARE taking their kids to multiple dr's to GET a diagnosis of anything. In the 90's it was ADD diagnosis, in the 2000's it is autism MEANING, there are a lot of kids are there that are NOT autistic--or ADD--yet they have that label.

There are so many clear thoughts on this thread from those affected by autism, I hate to quote just one.

For those of you who are so clear that it's a trivial disorder that's overdiagnosed, obviously you haven't been touched by autism. Good for you. Perhaps you know someone with cancer, or heart disease, or diabetes, or bipolar disorder, etc. How would you feel if someone who hadn't been touched by those started ranting about how they're overdiagnosed, and people are just weak, or brats instead. Do you have a grain of empathy? Or are you going to continue to be an armchair expert?

Sometimes, we just need to admit we don't know everything. Instead of spouting off with an uneducated opinion, why don't you do some research? Ask questions.

There's a saying, "if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism". This disorder manifests itself in so many ways. A kid who's sensory system overloads fast can't tolerate loud noises, flourescent lights, etc. A kid who's system is under-responsive is the one banging his head against the wall to gain sensory input, however inappropriate. The one thing they both have in common is they have a VERY hard time regulating their own senses. Can you even imagine what it's like to live like that?

No one has even come close to saying that autism is a trivial disorder (well the radio announcer). The radio announcer said that he didn't believe that all the kids that were diagnosed with autism are truly autistic--yes he was rude about that but can you really tell us that EVERY child with this diagnosis truly has autism? NO, you can't. Can you also say that you have never experienced a parent that has tried to get a diagnosis for their child to explain away their bad behavior? Not every child that misbehaves has some kind of disorder. In most cases it really is because the kid is a brat. Like the comment that someone made about a child in the class being mean, those are the cases we are talking about, the school/parents/whomever want a diagnosis to explain why he is mean vs teaching the kid how to behave.

I have also yet to come across an autistic child that is downright mean too.

 

[dejr_8]

But I do want to support those on this thread that are frustrated because they're being told their autistic children could be faking.

No one on this thread has said anyone's child is faking autism.

Yes am lucky to have a child that does not autism. We had a neighbor in MA whose child did. He was CLEARLY different. And he definitely benefited from the special attention he got.

What I am questioning based on what some people have posted is why it would take 20 hours of classroom examination, plus visit upon visit to specialists to get the diagnosis if it was so straight foward. Perhaps it is a child that is on the fringe of the disease. I don't know.

But to me it looks a lot like someone looking until they find what they wanted to find.

Flame me for that statement if you like, but for me (and others that have posted) the Autism issue is a much like ADD was 10-15 years ago.

 

[disney-super-mom]

I've never seen nor heard of any child diagnosed as autistic or on the spectrum because of bad behavior, tantrums, or regularly acting like a brat.

 

[jodifla]

Wow, just wow. I have worked in our school district's preschool classroom for children with autism, have taught in several classes with children on the spectrum, and have worked in a special ed Head Start room in which half the children had autism. If you saw the kids who are diagnosed, you would know that nobody is "playing their parents". When a child cannot talk, cannot grasp the concept of different colors, cannot handle even a simple change in routine, it is not "playing the parents".



One of the greatest advancements (IMO) is the fact that we now recognize it as a spectrum. Yes, years ago children with Asperger's were just "odd", but that meant they never got the help they needed. Children with Asperger's do not understand social cues and need intensive intervention. Many children with Asperger's are not capable of abstract thinking. Try using figurative language with a child on the spectrum- many take everything literally, and that is one reason we have to do such extensive training with things like figurative language.

It is these students who used to fall through the cracks. I taught a boy with diangosed Apserger's, and the kids treated him like crap. We worked with him on his social skills, but he had problems in everything I described above. He would get frustrated when he didn't understand something, and would cry. The kids in that class would make fun of him and ask why he couldn't act like everyone else. Thank God he was diagnosed, with services he will learn those social skills and abstract thoughts and figurative language that trip him up.




1:4, and you got that number from where?

Autism does not bring money into schools. School funding is a complex issue, and most special educatin programs are underfunded. If a school has enough special ed children (typically 30), then they count as a break out group for NCLB. This meanst that the children in that population, who typically function below grade level, must perform on grade level on standardized tests. If those students do not, the school gets sanctioned and loses funding. It's in the schools best interest to have fewer children receiving services.

Services are expensive, and huge problem for schools is not having enough money to pay for them. Many children do not receive services because the schools have no money. One of the reasons the special education program in my area is so good is because of the university. Every fall we have a Professional Development School in which we (the grad students) teach half a day and take classes the other half. We are introduced as new staff and we are one extra person in the classroom who is up to date on the latest interventions and research. We are no cost to the school, which means they can spend that money elsewhere. It is a great benefit to the school. People from surrounding districts actually move here because their home districts cannot or will not pay for services because of budgetary reasons. So the more special ed children in a school, the bigger the drain on resources. Schools lose money in special ed, not gain it.

Oh, special ed DOES bring money into the schools:


http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-special-education-epidemic/

Our study identifies what we believe is the key. Most states provide funds for special education based on the number of students in special education programs. That is, they provide schools with a financial incentive to label more students as disabled. Several of the state special education officials we spoke to while gathering data for our study actually referred to this as “the bounty system,” because schools get a bounty for each diagnosis

 

[disney-super-mom]

Flame me for that statement if you like, but for me (and others that have posted) the Autism issue is a much like ADD was 10-15 years ago.

Autism, and being anywhere on the spectrum, is nothing like ADD.

 

[Wishing on a star]

To the two posts above...

This is why my special needs child (whom everyone who considers themselves to be such an 'expert' would say has NO disorder whatsoever) is NO LONGER IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL.

No way I would subject my child, or ANY child, to such pressure.

Yes, I have heard rude and derogatory remarks, claiming that I must have taken my child to doctor after doctor, specialist after specialist, to get a diagnosis... WRONG... Just because the schools denied that my son may have some difficulties for several years (saves them from offering any help, huh...) the FIRST specialist I took my son came up with a valid diagnosis in 2-3 hours.

Just because YOU (a general 'you', not anyone here in particular) in all of your infinite expertise and wisdom, do not think that my child has a serious disorder or learning disability, does NOT mean that he does not... Quite the opposit. (Remember, at first look, nobody would see my child to exhibit a major disability.. but it IS THERE)

It is just stomach turning to hear allegations that any loving responsible parent would wish these kinds of serious disabilities on their child!!!

The ONLY reason that I have ever heard of parents actually taking the effort to go looking for this kind of diagnosis, is because, under the current status quo.. the schools REFUSE to offer help or services to any child until a major diagnosis is presented. (And even then, parents have to fight and fight to make sure that the schools treats their child appropriately and offers the assistance that they are mandated to by law...)

 

[jodifla]

And another article on this subject, on funding in Washington State:


http://www.wpas-rights.org/Envoy_On...ucation_funding_in_local_school_districts.htm


Each child who receives Special Education Services, gets almost double the Basic Ed Student amount, with an additional $3572. With the BEA fund, that makes a total of $7410 per student receiving Special Education Services.

 

[Wishing on a star]

To posts 88 and 89 above...

This is why my special needs child (whom everyone who considers themselves to be such an 'expert' would say has NO disorder whatsoever) is NO LONGER IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL.

No way I would subject my child, or ANY child, to such pressure.

Yes, I have heard rude and derogatory remarks, claiming that I must have taken my child to doctor after doctor, specialist after specialist, to get a diagnosis... WRONG... Just because the schools denied that my son may have some difficulties for several years (saves them from offering any help, huh...) the FIRST specialist I took my son came up with a valid diagnosis in 2-3 hours.

Just because YOU (a general 'you', not anyone here in particular) in all of your infinite expertise and wisdom, do not think that my child has a serious disorder or learning disability, does NOT mean that he does not... Quite the opposit. (Remember, at first look, nobody would see my child to exhibit a major disability.. but it IS THERE)

It is just stomach turning to hear allegations that any loving responsible parent would wish these kinds of serious disabilities on their child!!!

The ONLY reason that I have ever heard of parents actually taking the effort to go looking for this kind of diagnosis, is because, under the current status quo.. the schools REFUSE to offer help or services to any child until a major diagnosis is presented. (And even then, parents have to fight and fight to make sure that the schools treats their child appropriately and offers the assistance that they are mandated to by law...)

I would say a LOT more, but I wouldn't be worth the points...

 

[worm761]

My son is actually very well behaved. He is on the higher end of the spectrum. Very intelligent. In middle school with no friends. He is a great kid but just doesn't get it. He needs a poster to remind him of how to do things in the right order. We make a lot of posters. LOL We have serious doubts of whether he will ever be able to drive. Or even move out on his own. He rides his bike in circles saying "weeee weeee". He is 12 years old. He defines who he is, not his diagnosis. His diagnosis simply explains some behavior and definitely his thought process. It is NEVER an excuse. I have left places because his behavior was inappropriate. We know that if we want to try something new there may be consequences. We may have to leave in the middle of dinner. sometimes he just can't handle it. I had someone tell me I was rude because I allowed my son to play his Nintendo DS at the restaurant. The sound was off and he kept his stimming noises to a minimum. I cannnot see where this offended her. But I do know that it helps him in our world. That little black box is his coping mechanism, and per the doctor we are not taking it away just because some people don't like it. I do not feel the need to carry his diagnosis in my purse. It is his, not mine. And normally we don't advertise it. Sometimes you cant tell, sometimes not. Some days are better than others. God forbid this man should ever have an autistic child.

 

[CPT Tripss]

snip



Ithink you are the one that is missing the point many are trying to make. NO ONE is saying that kids with a REAL autism diagnosis are faking anything. What IS happening is that people ARE taking their kids to multiple dr's to GET a diagnosis of anything. In the 90's it was ADD diagnosis, in the 2000's it is autism MEANING, there are a lot of kids are there that are NOT autistic--or ADD--yet they have that label.

snip

Who the "Bleep" do you think would WANT a diagnosis of autism for a kid that did not have serious learning and social problems? I thought we got away from the "bad Mommy" stigma decades ago.

Yeah, the people in the Yale admissions office will just be ecstatic about an applicant with that on his "permanent" record. And it'll really look good to Harvard Medical school too.

Gawd help me, I want to reach through the screen and radio speaker and dope slap (not pejorative term . . . the Tappet Brothers use it regularly with FCC approval) some people.

 

[Deb in IA]

I do diagnose autism, and I do agree with much of what Todd&Copper is saying.

I also wonder what we are doing to these children in the long run. What will happen to the 4 year old that I label as autistic today? How will this affect him 10, 20, 40 years from now? Will it limit his employment chances? Ability to obtain insurance? Obtain an education? Will people have lower expectations of him because of his diagnosis, and thus, will this be a self-fulfililng prophesy?

As for Michael Savage, I find his comments reprehensible, but I find censorship more intolerable. So let him speak - but don't listen to him.

 

[jodifla]

No one on this thread has said anyone's child is faking autism.

Yes am lucky to have a child that does not autism. We had a neighbor in MA whose child did. He was CLEARLY different. And he definitely benefited from the special attention he got.

What I am questioning based on what some people have posted is why it would take 20 hours of classroom examination, plus visit upon visit to specialists to get the diagnosis if it was so straight foward. Perhaps it is a child that is on the fringe of the disease. I don't know.

But to me it looks a lot like someone looking until they find what they wanted to find.

Flame me for that statement if you like, but for me (and others that have posted) the Autism issue is a much like ADD was 10-15 years ago.

It's a big world, and there MIGHT be somebody out there who shopped around until they got the doctor who told them what they wanted to hear.

But for MOST parents, what happens in they start the process of trying to figure out what is going on when their child is developing differently. They go to doctors and Child Find services through the state, their local school system, their peditricians and child psychologists, etc.

And even among all these experts, you'll find that you can come away with four or five different diagnoses FOR THE SAME CHILD!

In more mild cases, it's often not a cut and dried Dx. And the younger you go, the more apt the Dx is likely to be off.

And then you throw school politics into the mix, and anarchy ensues. As I said, it's a jumbled mess, and most parents are JUST trying to get their child set on the path to the brightest future possible.

 

[dejr_8]

Autism, and being anywhere on the spectrum, is nothing like ADD.

I'm not comparing Autism to ADD as diseases. I am comparing the "epidemic" of Autism to the "epidemic" of ADD.

You MUST agree that every child that was diagnosed with ADD during the height of ADD awareness didn't have ADD.

And what I am (and I think some other posters are) saying is that the statement also holds true for Autism.