Is a church wedding 'open to the public?'

[goofyintoronto]

Thanks again for telling me what we did. We paid the priest not the church. You can call it what you want but we paid a retired Catholic priest to perform our wedding service in a church that we paid for our use, a church that is not open at all times.

True. Most catholic churches arent open throught out the night 24hrs a day. However, if the church is unlocked, and there's a wedding going on, anyone that wants to pray is able to walk right in and take a seat and start praying. Thats what ive seen in all my years at the church for weddings etc.

 

[mrsklamc]

If a former spouse sits in the back of the church, is quiet during the, "Does anyone here have just cause why these two should not be married," I'm not sure the police CAN remove him. Although they may try to persuade him to leave.

If the church requests it, of course they can. And again, I'm not talking about the Catholic church, and I'm not saying they're going to call the police on any random 80 year old. But if, as in your example, there's an ex spouse who is peaceable but simply not wanted, of course, if the church requests it, the police can remove them.

 

[declansdad]

True. Most catholic churches arent open throught out the night 24hrs a day. However, if the church is unlocked, and there's a wedding going on, anyone that wants to pray is able to walk right in and take a seat and start praying. Thats what ive seen in all my years at the church for weddings etc.

I'm not saying I don't believe you but rather it is not the same everwhere. And I'm not the only one that has said that.

 

[Coconut36]

I not saying I don't believe you but rather it is not the same everwhere. And I'm not the only one that has said that.

You are not the only one to say what? That the RCC operates however it wants in different places?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

On another thread it was mentioned that the church part of a wedding is open to the public. I have never heard of such a thing. Although, there was a woman at my wedding that no one has any clue who she was. So I was just curious how common this was.

Depends upon the policy of the particular church in question. In ours, weddings are technically a church service and are as such, open to the public. Technically speaking in our church, wedding invitations are for the reception. The service itself is open to the public. Also, one doesn't rent the church. The fee is because people have to be there for set up and the like and the heat or air has to be turned on, etc. So the church retains control of the building and retains its authority to kick people out or not to. The church won't kick anyone out that isn't being a nuisance or a danger. The church does allow receptions held there to be private because they aren't part of a worship service and would in theory ask someone not invited to leave. But it has never come up. But there also, the decision to kick someone out or not rests with the church.

 

[Nancyg56]

I agree. That is what the poster was trying to explain. You do not hire a Catholic priest...you can call it that but that isn't what it really is. That is NOT how the Catholic church works and Catholicism is uniform in regards to how things work...here, there and everywhere the rules, regulations and expectations are the same.



Because it isn't different..it does not work that way in the Catholic church. See post above and several others from Catholics that are trying to explain to you that certain things do NOT vary and are not a possibility as the Catholic church does not operate that way.

You had the words that I did not have.

I not saying I don't believe you but rather it is not the same everwhere. And I'm not the only one that has said that.

If a parishioner walked into the Church I would bet my farm that your retired Priest would not have informed that person that the service was private so he or she needed to leave. You may believe that to be the case but I have been taught from an early age that a Mass is a Mass is a Mass and that anyone can attend. Perhaps it is different in your Parish but I have never been to a Catholic Church that followed that practice.

 

[goofyintoronto]

If a parishioner walked into the Church I would bet my farm that your retired Priest would not have informed that person that the service was private so he or she needed to leave. You may believe that to be the case but I have been taught from an early age that a Mass is a Mass is a Mass and that anyone can attend. Perhaps it is different in your Parish but I have never been to a Catholic Church that followed that practice.

Me neither! Never been to/saw a catholic church that followed that practice. I was raised this way as well. Mass is mass! You wanna pray, come in. It dont matter if there's a wedding ceremony.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

If the church requests it, of course they can. And again, I'm not talking about the Catholic church, and I'm not saying they're going to call the police on any random 80 year old. But if, as in your example, there's an ex spouse who is peaceable but simply not wanted, of course, if the church requests it, the police can remove them.

I'm trying to even picture this scenario and I can't. The PEACEABLE ex walks in and sits down. Who runs to tell the priest? Do they put the wedding on hold until the priest or someone else calls the police to "remove" him/her from the CHURCH? Do they stop the ceremony when they realize he/she is there, ask him/her to leave, and if he/she doesn't, sit around until the police come? Hopefully, the photographer is snapping away, because I'd certainly want POLICE removing my ex to be part of my special day's memory, rather than having him sitting peaceably in the pew.

IIRC, for my mother's funeral, we paid a fee to the organist and soloist, and a donation to the priest.

 

[Chelley00]

I agree. I cannot imagine turning someone away just because they werent invited. Imagine an 80 yr old woman comes to church, she had to take bus to get there. Her husband just passed away a few weeks prior, so she's been coming to church quite a lot since then. Your telling me someone from your wedding party is going to kick out that poor old woman just because she wasnt invited to the ceremony? She has every right to be there. Its a church!! Its free for any catholic to use when/if they want to pray.

At the church where I am on staff, if someone noticed the 80 year old woman and she was not invited, we would invite her to use our sacristy or another room in the building for her prayer time.

No one has a right to be at a church at any time. It's a priviledge the church offers to people, but it is not a right to be in a private building on private property. I think people keep missing that point. It's not a public building. It's a ministry to leave the doors open, not a given.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

At the church where I am on staff, if someone noticed the 80 year old woman and she was not invited, we would invite her to use our sacristy or another room in the building for her prayer time.

Seriously? An 80 yr old woman sitting quietly in the back of the church would basically be asked to leave and pray in another room? And who at the wedding would make that call? Who is scoping out the place and determining that she didn't 'belong' there? My DH wouldn't have a clue who everyone was on my side of the family, and no one on my side would have a clue who everyone on his side was. And what if that poor old woman who went to church to pray was just lonely and wanted to sit and watch a beautiful wedding that day? I can't imagine being the one to say to someone "please remove her from the church." And how embarrassing for her to BE asked to leave or escorted somewhere else.

The things I've learned on the DIS.

 

[Chelley00]

Seriously? An 80 yr old woman sitting quietly in the back of the church would basically be asked to leave and pray in another room? And who at the wedding would make that call? Who is scoping out the place and determining that she didn't 'belong' there? My DH wouldn't have a clue who everyone was on my side of the family, and no one on my side would have a clue who everyone on his side was. And what if that poor old woman who went to church to pray was just lonely and wanted to sit and watch a beautiful wedding that day? I can't imagine being the one to say to someone "please remove her from the church." And how embarrassing for her to BE asked to leave or escorted somewhere else.

The things I've learned on the DIS.

Where I work, the wedding party rents the sanctuary for the wedding. If someone uninvited shows up, the wedding party can ask to have the person removed. However, being a church, we would ask the uninvited person to relocate themselves to another room. At that point, the church isn't open for everyone as it's in use by people who are paying for it.

We've never had it come up, but legally, we can remove people at any time because it's private property.

 

[Northstar]

Eh. Amazing how heated we can get about a theoretical issue that, in practice, is usually a non-issue.

It's not totally public and it's not totally private.

I can't imagine anyone scanning the invitations of people coming into the church, the way they do at celebrity weddings at private venues. That means that, if someone wants to be present at the service in the church, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would even realize they weren't invited.

On the other hand, it's not likely that the ushers were specifically instructed by the priest or pastor that they must admit anyone who wishes to attend, because it is a church service. So I imagine that it is also common, if someone shows up and says, "oh, no, I'm not on the bride's side or the groom's side, I just want to attend the service," that the ushers say "Well, it's a wedding and you shouldn't be here without an invitation." And most people at that point would go away without questioning them.

Anyway, all you prospective brides and grooms, please don't stress and add this to the long list of things you must investigate in your wedding planning. People you don't know in the church while you get married? It's not an issue, unless you're worried about having enough seating.

 

[mrsklamc]

I'm trying to even picture this scenario and I can't. The PEACEABLE ex walks in and sits down. Who runs to tell the priest? Do they put the wedding on hold until the priest or someone else calls the police to "remove" him/her from the CHURCH? Do they stop the ceremony when they realize he/she is there, ask him/her to leave, and if he/she doesn't, sit around until the police come? Hopefully, the photographer is snapping away, because I'd certainly want POLICE removing my ex to be part of my special day's memory, rather than having him sitting peaceably in the pew.

If there were a potential problem, the wedding coordinator would probably know. Our church also requires a safety/security person for any event over 250 people. So if someone notified the wedding coordinator for a small wedding or the safety person for a larger one, they would ask the person to leave, and if necessary the police would be called. The pastor would not be involved.

 

[luvmy3]

My wedding was a full Catholic Mass so if a congregation member wanted to come into the Church during the ceremony I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all. Its not like they are crashing the reception to be the first in line at the open bar.

 

[Imzadi]

If the church requests it, of course they can. And again, I'm not talking about the Catholic church, and I'm not saying they're going to call the police on any random 80 year old. But if, as in your example, there's an ex spouse who is peaceable but simply not wanted, of course, if the church requests it, the police can remove them.

Actually, I inadvertently was talking about the Catholic church. It was how I was raised, although I no longer follow that Church for a whole host of reasons we can't discuss here.

The Catholic church wouldn't turn someone out who was peacefully being there. You don't know WHY someone is there. People can't or won't often articulate why they are there even if asked. What if the ex-spouse actually wants to pray and make amends so that he can freely wish his wife well in her new life, yet not want to go up to her about it all?

What if that wild-looking, disheveled woman who stepped in, sat in the back, looking wild & lost but is quietly sitting there, is about to go home & commit suicide? But, because of all the love and trust, witnessing a family that actually supports & gets along, and most importantly, the HOPE she sees that life CAN work out, that bride & groom actually save her life? I was taught that God uses people to do his work and you don't know when or how.

In the same way that Mary & Joseph sought refuge & safety for a night at the Inn and wasn't turned away, the Catholic church wouldn't turn someone away in need.


As for the person who asked doesn't the church lock it's doors? Yes, they've had to because of robberies. But, the church I used to attend also put a sign on all the doors that if people need/want to get in, to go around to the side offices, and they will be allowed in to pray/sit/whatever. They just can't allow people in unsupervised and may steal or vandalize. When I was up there for a funeral and did want to just sit in that church, they did open it up just for me & my DSis, and locked it again afterward.

 

[jen0610]

I think that's where you're losing people. What exactly does that mean? You didn't like your co-worker and didn't want her at the church, or there was a violent convicted felon who had been threatening you and said he/she was going to show up at your wedding with a gun? First case scenario, you're probably SOL. (Although I guess you COULD call the police...people CAN call the police about anything and everything.) Second scenario, you probably have a pretty good case. Something in between, I guess it depends on the facts.

I posted earlier in the thread and this is the EXACT scenario that we could have been facing. And while the person making the threats was still in prison for his crimes, several of his cronies were out and would have been more than willing to disrupt a wedding. The CATHOLIC church where the wedding was held, went above and beyond to make sure that if there had actually been an issue, that the security that the bride and grooms families had put in place were adhered to. This included a CLOSED INVATATION only ceremony. There were 4 family/friends members that stood outside the church and scanned the people coming in to make sure they knew who was getting in. If one of them didn't know you, you had to have your invite on you, which was noted on a card inside the invitation. The threats were all just a bunch of hot wind, but seeing as there was a riot at the prison 3 months before the wedding with an escape attempted and after several different threats were received, yes the need for security went into over drive. And thank goodness the church took these seriously.

This. With only one pastor and one administrator on the premises Monday - Friday, our church building is not unlocked unless there is worship, fellowship, or a bible study going on.

That's how it is with our church. Unless there is something going on at the church, it is locked up.

I agree. That is what the poster was trying to explain. You do not hire a Catholic priest...you can call it that but that isn't what it really is. That is NOT how the Catholic church works and Catholicism is uniform in regards to how things work...here, there and everywhere the rules, regulations and expectations are the same.


Because it isn't different..it does not work that way in the Catholic church. See post above and several others from Catholics that are trying to explain to you that certain things do NOT vary and are not a possibility as the Catholic church does not operate that way.

Not always. There are instances when a local chruch will do what it needs to do in order to proctect one of it's members. And thank goodness that they do.

Me neither! Never been to/saw a catholic church that followed that practice. I was raised this way as well. Mass is mass! You wanna pray, come in. It dont matter if there's a wedding ceremony.

And in my husbands Catholic chruch there is a wedding mass and a wedding ceremony. If you do the mass, it's an hour+ long service complete with communion. A wedding ceremony, you are in and out in less then an hour. No communion, minimual readings and no hymans/singing. Been there done that on more than one wedding at DH's church that he grew up in.

 

[mhsjax]

Seriously? An 80 yr old woman sitting quietly in the back of the church would basically be asked to leave and pray in another room? And who at the wedding would make that call? Who is scoping out the place and determining that she didn't 'belong' there? My DH wouldn't have a clue who everyone was on my side of the family, and no one on my side would have a clue who everyone on his side was. And what if that poor old woman who went to church to pray was just lonely and wanted to sit and watch a beautiful wedding that day? I can't imagine being the one to say to someone "please remove her from the church." And how embarrassing for her to BE asked to leave or escorted somewhere else.

The things I've learned on the DIS.

Thats ok, it works both ways. My family isn't Catholic, not one of us, and I have never heard of a wedding in a church being open to the public, but then again, people don't come into our sanctuary to pray at any given hour. At our weddings, there isn't a service or mass, it is just a wedding that is performed. I can't imagine anyone not invited coming in to see a wedding and I wouldn't want some stranger in there either.

 

[Coconut36]

Not always. There are instances when a local chruch will do what it needs to do in order to proctect one of it's members. And thank goodness that they do.

Huh? Like what exactly? Obviously if there is the potential for violence or harm I can see something happening but I do NOT think that is what people are discussing when they talk about someone being in the church at the time of the wedding.

 

[tiggger1]

Both the Church I got married in and the Church we currently go to post weddings in their newsletters. so you are bound to get a few little old ladies who want to see a wedding. I had one at my wedding who gave me card with $5 and thanked me letting her spend this special day with us..I talked to the priest and he said she does it for almost every wedding at the church.

I agree that a mass (nuptial or not) is a mass and all masses at my church are open to the public.

 

[Bob NC]

I can't imagine anyone scanning the invitations of people coming into the church, the way they do at celebrity weddings at private venues. That means that, if someone wants to be present at the service in the church, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would even realize they weren't invited.

On the other hand, it's not likely that the ushers were specifically instructed by the priest or pastor that they must admit anyone who wishes to attend, because it is a church service. So I imagine that it is also common, if someone shows up and says, "oh, no, I'm not on the bride's side or the groom's side, I just want to attend the service," that the ushers say "Well, it's a wedding and you shouldn't be here without an invitation." And most people at that point would go away without questioning them.

This is too heavy a dose of reality for the Dis.

We need to take this debate to the fringes of things that would happen once in a billion times and argue from there.

And I have a suggestion. I think we need to come up with some type of code word, like maybe, ummmmm, "ditto my pp". Instead of typing out the same posts over and over and over again, we could juts type, "ditto my pp", (Ditto my previous post), and save ourselves the effort of just typing the same exact post and opinion time after time.

Repetition DOES strengthen every argument.