Interesting story about Disney layoffs in Jan.

[MadeToLove]

The Times article got the attention of at least one Senator: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-visas-nelson-20150605-story.html

 

[GoBears 1980]

If we steer clear of politics I can respond quite easily to this. I don't know quality of work, neither do you. You postulated the point. I'm simply challenging that supposition as I don't believe it's a given like you've suggested.

The bolded part is inflammatory for no reason. You can continue to act that way if you choose, but might I suggest a more reasonable approach next time.

Sorry, but you said, "I believe the job is not the same quality so not the "same job" ". I know it is terribly unfair to quote your exact words, but you did make a judgment based on zero facts and I said so.

And AGAIN, you had to have the last word, you couldn't let it drop. The whole topic is inflammatory just as you intended it to be. Might I suggest a more reasonable approach next time?

The Times article got the attention of at least one Senator: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-disney-visas-nelson-20150605-story.html

Disney didn't hire anyone with a H-1B visa, they outsourced the jobs to a company that they felt could do the same job at lower costs. It is the other company that is hiring H-1B people. You might want to review the programs history.

 

[Gisele]

Lookie here Ma...old Jeb and cousin Buddy are a lookin to be a playin their banjos again....yee haw! Wee doggies! Wahoo!

 

[FryingPansWhoKnew]

If Disney can accomplish the same job for lower cost, why wouldn't they do it?

Your words were made first. I am simply disagreeing with you. Is that ok? I'm not trying to provoke you. I'm seriously wondering if it's ok to disagree with you. It sounds like you are requiring me to refute what you have said completely or agree with you completely. No in-between.

"I believe the job is not the same quality so not the "same job"

You are making the claim that it is the same job without any basis in fact that it actually is (the very thing you think you are calling me on). Why is it ok for you to enter your opinion as fact, but it's not ok for me to say I don't agree with you? Am I only allowed to agree with you or I'll be the target of your vitriol?

Being in the field that this is referring to and working with some of the H-1B visa recipients, I feel I have at least enough experience interacting with them to doubt this claim of yours.

And AGAIN, you had to have the last word, you couldn't let it drop. The whole topic is inflammatory just as you intended it to be. Might I suggest a more reasonable approach next time?

There's a slight differences between you and me here. I use words like disturbing and disappointing where the target is WDW (Unless you are WDW itself). You use the above where the target is me. You have the opportunity to politely disagree with me, but instead you launch some kind of attack on me rather than my arguments. We don't have to agree, but at least we can keep it civil. How about it?

Disney didn't hire anyone with a H-1B visa, they outsourced the jobs to a company that they felt could do the same job at lower costs. It is the other company that is hiring H-1B people. You might want to review the programs history.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to politely disagree with you again (I never learn do I?). The distinction that is being illustrated is the 'loophole' that's being used. I believe Disney knew exactly what it was doing. Again, you are free to disagree with me.

 

[GoBears 1980]

You are making the claim that it is the same job without any basis in fact that it actually is (the very thing you think you are calling me on). Why is it ok for you to enter your opinion as fact, but it's not ok for me to say I don't agree with you? Am I only allowed to agree with you or I'll be the target of your vitriol

Show me your evidence for the decline of the Disney IT department. I see the same results which equate to the same job. You are free to disagree, but examples would bolster your opinion.

Being in the field that this is referring to and working with some of the H-1B visa recipients, I feel I have at least enough experience interacting with them to doubt this claim of yours.

That sounds awfully close to bigotry to me. You are generalizing your experience to the specifics of IT for TWDC in FL, but again, show me the specific decline in the TWDC IT product and I will consider them.

There's a slight differences between you and me here. I use words like disturbing and disappointing where the target is WDW (Unless you are WDW itself). You use the above where the target is me. You have the opportunity to politely disagree with me, but instead you launch some kind of attack on me rather than my arguments. We don't have to agree, but at least we can keep it civil. How about it?

So it is okay to be unfair to a company and try to damage their business, but you want civility, not indignation?

The old "woe is me, he is attacking me" won't work. I pointed out that you were willing to let the topic drop, but only after you had your say. You could have dropped it, before you replied and it would have been dropped.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to politely disagree with you again. The distinction that is being illustrated is the 'loophole' that's being used. I believe Disney knew exactly what it was doing. Again, you are free to disagree with me.

Saying you are being polite doesn't make it so.

Now you have Disney in a conspiracy to to hire H-1B workers even though Disney has zero control over whom their vendor hires.

 

[FryingPansWhoKnew]

Show me your evidence for the decline of the Disney IT department.

Show me evidence that the Disney IT department has maintained the same quality. This "I see the same results which equate to the same job." is an opinion. You were the one to make the claim first, therefore I believe the onus is on you to supply support. I made no such demand though.

That sounds awfully close to bigotry to me.

If I'm more suspicious of people with statistically less experience doing the same quality of work as those with more experience, color me a bigot. There is plenty of opinion-based literature that suggests employers are choosing quantity over quality.

but you want civility

Yes, I do. Soften your message a little. I believe you can make your point without being hostile. Forgive me for defending myself. You have lobbed a number of attacks at me, while I'm merely asking you to take it down a notch (that's all I can do). I understand you love Disney and are willing to go to war for it. You have nothing to prove.

Saying you are being polite doesn't make it so.

What is impolite about my statements? I'll clarify if I need to. I assure you I'm trying to be civil.

 

[tarheelalum]

Your anger is directed at the wrong people. If Disney can accomplish the same job for lower cost, why wouldn't they do it?

If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the Congressmen who created this situation with immigration law changes. Hammer on them to close the loopholes that make such a move possible.

Who do you think lobbies congress to create these programs? Big companies like Disney, Edison and Intel. Don't think for a second Disney does not share any culpability in the creation of these programs.

 

[old lady]

What I read in the internet was it was tech jobs and the employees were being replace by foreigners. I just hope they have security clearings. Don't want endanger guests and rides , and people's freedom because of few nutcases have issues.

 

[GoBears 1980]

Who do you think lobbies congress to create these programs? Big companies like Disney, Edison and Intel. Don't think for a second Disney does not share any culpability in the creation of these programs.

Uh...... Intel didn't exist in 1965 when the H-1B program came into existence and I HIGHLY doubt that TWDC had a position on the issue in 1965. The current limit of H-1B visas is only 65,000. It was 170,000 in 1965 when the law was passed, which means if it had kept pace with U.S. population growth it would be close to 300,000 now. In either case, both numbers are still a drop in the bucket to the 18 million illegal people in the U.S. who are displacing U.S. workers.

 

[Gisele]

Uh...... Intel didn't exist in 1965 when the H-1B program came into existence and I HIGHLY doubt that TWDC had a position on the issue in 1965. The current limit of H-1B visas is only 65,000. It was 170,000 in 1965 when the law was passed, which means if it had kept pace with U.S. population growth it would be close to 300,000 now. In either case, both numbers are still a drop in the bucket to the 18 million illegal people in the U.S. who are displacing U.S. workers.

Either the 18 million illegals need to become naturalized citizens (That are not criminals) or they should be deported.

 

[gottalovepluto]

It's incredibly wrong. Disney knew darn well what they were doing when they "outsourced" to the contracting company. The story was on CNBC yesterday, I hope Iger is directly asked about this fiasco on the next conference call.

 

[GoBears 1980]

Either the 18 million illegals need to become naturalized citizens (That are not criminals) or they should be deported.

Just so I have it right...... The 18 million illegals should be rewarded with citizenship while a company that hires legal workers should be punished.......

 

[chickapin parterre]

actually this is really old news, but someone from the New York Times had a bad vacation at WDW and decided to air this issue. again. The problem is nationwide with many industries that are more shocking then Disney. You have to really dig through the articles , of the 350 folks, only 90 didn't return to WDW. it is a loophole problem that congress created.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Moving to our community board

 

[Gisele]

Just so I have it right...... The 18 million illegals should be rewarded with citizenship while a company that hires legal workers should be punished.......

It is a very complex subject that I am researching.
Here is a link that is detailed.

http://www.lee.senate.gov/public/in...nship-under-the-president-s-executive-amnesty

As far as companies go, remember, just because something is legal doesn't necessarily make it right.

 

[Comicbookmommy]

This is terrible. No matter what laws or loopholes there are, as a company based on magic, family and happiness, Disney should have the integrity to take care of their employees and not replace them to merely save money.

A couple years back at Disneyland we had some rude younger CM's so we commented at City Hall. After a long conversation with the elderly lady at the desk, she let slip that Disney had let go of "career" workers who had been there a long time and hired a bunch of super young people who worked for less (she didn't say they worked for less exactly, but I gathered it from our conversation). She seemed sincerely sad about it, mentioned the people let go loved Disney and lived their life for the park and would never had been rude to a guest. Seems like Disney's been cutting corners for a long time.

I really hope they start caring more about the people working for them. I mean, seriously, they're not hurting for money. They're just looking for ways to increase their wealth even more, despite what it means to those they let go.

 

[tarheelalum]

Just so I have it right...... The 18 million illegals should be rewarded with citizenship while a company that hires legal workers should be punished.......

When a company in the United States displaces American workers so it can pay L-1 and HB-1 visa holders a lot less money, they absolutely should be punished.

 

[GoBears 1980]

This is terrible. No matter what laws or loopholes there are, as a company based on magic, family and happiness, Disney should have the integrity to take care of their employees and not replace them to merely save money.

A couple years back at Disneyland we had some rude younger CM's so we commented at City Hall. After a long conversation with the elderly lady at the desk, she let slip that Disney had let go of "career" workers who had been there a long time and hired a bunch of super young people who worked for less (she didn't say they worked for less exactly, but I gathered it from our conversation). She seemed sincerely sad about it, mentioned the people let go loved Disney and lived their life for the park and would never had been rude to a guest. Seems like Disney's been cutting corners for a long time.

I really hope they start caring more about the people working for them. I mean, seriously, they're not hurting for money. They're just looking for ways to increase their wealth even more, despite what it means to those they let go.

Disney can not just fire "career" cast members, the unions are very strong. My experience, having been a cast member and having many friends who still work there is that it is the older cast members who have the worst, most cynical attitudes and the younger, newer ones are the ones who still have enthusiasm. That is of course a generalization, you can find exceptions either way, but I have either been a cast member or annual pass holder for the past 41 years and I've seen the good and the bad.

I will say it matters a great deal WHEN you go as to the attitudes you find. Towards the end of a long, hot crowded summer everyone's nerves are a bit frayed.

When a company in the United States displaces American workers so it can pay L-1 and HB-1 visa holders a lot less money, they absolutely should be punished.

Great, TWDC didn't hire ANY H-1B workers. They hired someone else to handle a very tiny part of their operation. They have 55,000+ employees in FL. The total displaced was about 90 and some of those didn't even bother to apply within the company.

 

[FryingPansWhoKnew]

When a company in the United States displaces American workers so it can pay L-1 and HB-1 visa holders a lot less money, they absolutely should be punished.

As much as I understand your fervor, they didn't actually break the law. They knew what they were doing though. They knew they were laying off their in-house American workers to allow an outsourcing firm, based in India, to come in and take over. Those displaced workers were also forced to train their lower-paid, less-experienced replacements, which to me, eliminates all doubt that they didn't know what they were doing. It's disappointing and this discussion about when the modernized version of this started whether it was in 1965 or in 1990 with the Immigration Act of 1990, is irrelevant.

 

[GoBears 1980]

As much as I understand your fervor, they didn't actually break the law. They knew what they were doing though. They knew they were laying off their in-house American workers to allow an outsourcing firm, based in India, to come in and take over. Those displaced workers were also forced to train their lower-paid, less-experienced replacements, which to me, eliminates all doubt that they didn't know what they were doing. It's disappointing and this discussion about when the modernized version of this started whether it was in 1965 or in 1990 with the Immigration Act of 1990, is irrelevant.

The 65,000 H-1B visas allowed amount to 45/10,000 of total U.S. employment. Worrying about those legal workers while completely ignoring the 18,000,000 illegals is truly noticing the speck in your eye while ignoring the log in your own.

The jobs were not offshored, they were outsourced.

Should you boycott Disneyland because Alweg (Sweden) built the Monorail and Von Roll (Switzerland) built Skyway?