Inspired by threads like... and don't you dare disagree with me.

[cardaway]

See, now this is a perfect example. You posted this on a thread about how people were going to spend their tax refunds. It was requested by the OP that (paraphrasing here) we didn't want lectures about giving the government interest free loans. We are all aware that is what we are doing, but we don't care. Yet you felt the need to bust in and tell us that anyways and make the above comment. That thread is started out nicely (it was neat to see people excited about how they were going to spend their money) and now its basically dead because nobody wants to be lectured to.
In that instance I think it was wrong what you did. Nobody was asking for opinions yet you felt the need to give yours and tear us down instead.
What was the purpose of that? Why did you feel you needed to do that?

1) I didn't post the quote you are using as an example. In fact I think you should correct your post so it doesn't look like I did.

2) This thread is my take on your question. Nuff said.

 

[cardaway]

Having blogs is a great idea. BUT, I believe that many people would still be rude and nothing would be accomplished as far as doing anything about people's hurt feelings. I think that people would post something in their blogs and other people would comment about those posts in their blogs and the OP's would read THOSE later blogs and still end up hurt. The idea of a roundabout way of still insulting DISers is the thought I laughed at.

Sorry my friend, but IMO PG is right. In anything, blogs are worse.

 

[phorsenuf]

I stand corrected you did not say :

"Its a sad day when adults can't control their spending habits so the look to the "government" to help them with their spending. Scary!!"

I copied that with it being said by you from somewhere on here. So someone else has it wrong. But I apologize for that.

But you did chime in right away with:

Sorry, call it a flame if you want, but that's one of the most silly things anybody could do with their money. It would be irresponsible not to say so.

So in answer to my question as why you felt the need to offer your opinion anyways was....?????

 

[skiwee1]

I'll bite! LOL

I look at it like this. I decide to start a thread that says: chicken lovers, share your best recipes.
That means I am looking for people who also enjoy eating chicken. So the thread moves along and we chicken lovers swap recipes.
Than a vegetarian shows up on a CHICKEN thread to lecture us how bad it is to eat chicken. Well, we don't care we want to eat chicken and then a debate ensures and people stop posting their chicken recipes because the thread has turned into a debate/fight/flame against chicken lovers.

Now, if I started a thread that said chicken: love it or hate it. Than of course all responses would be welcome.

Make sense?

ETA: I have nothing against vegetarians, you just happened to be my example...

ITA. Another example was someone asking what child care to use while she and her husband went out one night while on vacation with the kids. Instead of telling them which they prefer some posters felt the need to tell them what horrible parents they are! I don't agree with getting a sitter and leaving the kids so I didn't answer because 1. I didn't know which is the best, and 2. I don't agree with it. So I SKIPPED answering it. Such a simple concept. Everyone should try it! LOL!

 

[phorsenuf]

1) I didn't post the quote you are using as an example. In fact I think you should correct your post so it doesn't look like I did.

fixed

 

[bicker]

Having blogs is a great idea. BUT, I believe that many people would still be rude and nothing would be accomplished as far as doing anything about people's hurt feelings. I think that people would post something in their blogs and other people would comment about those posts in their blogs and the OP's would read THOSE later blogs and still end up hurt. The idea of a roundabout way of still insulting DISers is the thought I laughed at.

I see your point, though folks can simply subscribe only to blog threads of members they like. That way folks get out their frustrations in a venue where they can reasonably expect to have an unrebutted soapbox.

 

[ead79]

I wanted to respond to a couple of your statements, cardaway.

That's why I said that IMO the posts when somebody is upset should be allowed. Makes sense for people to be able to look for support without seeing stuff to make their hardship worse.

But that's clearly been abused IMO. We're now at the point where simple general topic posts have "don't post this" taglines, not just ones where people have had some hardship and are looking for support.

I agree with your first paragraph here. When people are feeling down and need some support, the last thing they need is being kicked while they are down. Sometimes people feel sad even when they know that they essentially caused their own problem. Nonetheless sometimes you just need support.

I understand where you’re coming from thinking that the “don’t post this” taglines are being abused. However, I think the reason you see so many of those lately is because of the large number of threads that have degenerated into arguments/insults recently. I think sometimes people are just trying to head a heated debate off at the pass so to speak. Just as phorsenuf said, I think that there is a difference between threads that are looking for opinions and those that aren’t.

Not to pick on you, but I think it was not in keeping with the topic of the thread to post your views on getting large income tax refunds. While I didn’t take it personally (as a matter of fact we get very small refunds since we don’t own anything to deduct, LOL), I can see how your comments can be seen as out of place on that thread. However, if the thread had been worded like “do you prefer to get large tax refunds or try to break even/owe?” then your comments would’ve fit perfectly with the thread.

I think the abundance of “don’t post this” taglines is due, in part, to the number of threads on the CB that do turn into debate when people post off-topic (or barely on-topic) stuff outside the scope of the thread. (This is not aimed at you, I’m just speaking generally.) I think it might be better to post an “inspired by” thread if somebody wants to discuss something like that.

IMO the issue seen on the BAC thread is people are posting pretty hurtful and judgemental things about others knowing that people cannot respond or they will be called "bashers". If it was kept to support it wouldn't be an issue.

Sometimes it strikes me as funny how two people can feel the exact same way on two opposite sides of the spectrum.

I’m going to be honest with you and tell you that I had concerns about ever posting to the BAC thread (for a variety of reasons from the OP’s comments to other reasons), but I chose to for support from other BAC’s. While there were some highly insulting comments made in the past, I think you can see on the thread where we responded that those comments were way out of line. This hasn’t happened on that thread in quite a while I believe. I considered leaving the thread when the incidents happened, but I chose not to because I didn’t want people to think that all Christians have such hate-filled thoughts.

The reason it is ironic to me to hear you mention that you think people post hurtful/judgmental things to the BAC thread is because I feel exactly the same way about the “heathens” thread. I choose to respect that it is not a thread for me, so I don’t post to it. But I do sometimes check over there and sometimes see comments that I take personally and find hurtful (even once finding a comment directed personally at me, which I really do think is unacceptable to talk about someone on a thread they can’t respond to). What I realized is that most of the “heathens” thread posters do not mean what they say personally. In other words, though it may hurt me to hear someone say that they think that people who believe in God are deluded, they don’t mean it personally against me. Likewise with the BAC thread. While we may have beliefs about salvation that are not the same as your beliefs, it is not meant personally. Now, let me be clear. I am NOT defending outright hurtful remarks such as those made a long time ago in the BAC thread by certain hurtful posters. I’m just saying that sometimes people are offended by absolute religious beliefs. Their intent is not to offend, just to stay by their beliefs.

Sorry for the long post. I know that you and I often disagree, but I wanted to give my thoughts.

 

[gina2000]

There are some incredibly rude, insensitive clods on these boards whose sole purpose in life is to get their jollies out of hurting other people. There's no reason for half of the garbage that is spewed on most threads. You don't agree? Great. Say it the way you'd say it to someone you care about. Don't say it as if you think the other person is the most dimwitted idiot that walked the earth. People aren't always able to articulate accurately on a message board especially if they're upset and feeling raw about a situation. So give them some space. They come here feeling lousy. They shouldn't have to leave feeling worse.

Oh, and one more thing while I'm on a roll. I know people are incredibly devout about their religious beliefs. Although I may not agree with what they believe and how they believe it, I respect their right to have such beliefs. I don't respect them when they tell me I'm going to hell or I'm deluded or any of the other garbage I've read on alot of these controversial religious threads. So we don't agree? Big deal. Don't mandate me to hell publically. Don't tell me I'm an idiot for believing. It's crass, rude and uncalled for. You can believe or not believe in your heart but you don't have to articulate it in a way that's totally offensive to everyone....even people who agree with you. Those sorts of statements just make me think about how judgemental people are. And I don't think any one of us are in the position to judge no matter how wonderful we think we are.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

What is BAC?

 

[gina2000]

Well, for me it's Berkeley Aquatic Club but I think for DISers it's Born Again Christian.

 

[cardaway]

The reason it is ironic to me to hear you mention that you think people post hurtful/judgmental things to the BAC thread is because I feel exactly the same way about the “heathens” thread. I choose to respect that it is not a thread for me, so I don’t post to it. But I do sometimes check over there and sometimes see comments that I take personally and find hurtful (even once finding a comment directed personally at me, which I really do think is unacceptable to talk about someone on a thread they can’t respond to).

1) I believe the Heathen thread has just as much right to exist as the BAC thread, both are for support.

2) I agree with the "can't respond to part" and hopefully it's been clear that at least I don't say anything there that I don't say anyhwere else. In fact I think that's true for most posters to that thread.

It's also possible it was a repsonse to something said in the BAC thread. Another problem with these exclusive threads, no mutual place to respond that makes sense.

While there were some highly insulting comments made in the past, I think you can see on the thread where we responded that those comments were way out of line. This hasn’t happened on that thread in quite a while I believe. I considered leaving the thread when the incidents happened, but I chose not to because I didn’t want people to think that all Christians have such hate-filled thoughts.

Actually the hurtful posts continue. The reasons you are hurt by the other thread is EXACTLY why the BAC comments are hurtful to the others. I not going to hijack this thread to try and explain it further, in fact I think most people on that thread refuse to accept their posts "only about beliefs" are hurtful to non-Christians.

 

[ead79]

Don't mandate me to hell publically. Don't tell me I'm an idiot for believing. It's crass, rude and uncalled for. You can believe or not believe in your heart but you don't have to articulate it in a way that's totally offensive to everyone....even people who agree with you. Those sorts of statements just make me think about how judgemental people are. And I don't think any one of us are in the position to judge no matter how wonderful we think we are.

I totally agree with you. Though I am firm in my beliefs, I don't feel that telling others they are going to hell is my place. I am ashamed when people who claim the same religion as I do try to hurt people or shame them into belief. That just doesn't work and is unbelievably hurtful.

 

[cardaway]

There's no reason for half of the garbage that is spewed on most threads. You don't agree? Great. Say it the way you'd say it to someone you care about.

IMO most people do say things the way they would to others. As posted earlier, they are taken wrong due to the nature of the internet.

As for garbage, everybody feels differently about what is garbage. I think the game threads are doing nothing but taking up space, but as bad as people say others like me are, you don't see me going in each one and saying so.

That's the way I see these boards. Rarely does somebody ever go in and say something stinks just to say it, they have a reason.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Well, for me it's Berkeley Aquatic Club but I think for DISers it's Born Again Christian.

Thanks...I sure tried to think of what it was and it just wasn't coming to me.

 

[kdibattista]

IMO most people do say things the way they would to others. As posted earlier, they are taken wrong due to the nature of the internet.

As for garbage, everybody feels differently about what is garbage. I think the game threads are doing nothing but taking up space, but as bad as people say others like me are, you don't see me going in each one and saying so.

That's the way I see these boards. Rarely does somebody ever go in and say something stinks just to say it, they have a reason.

Right, because it would be irresponsibile for you not to.

 

[ead79]

1) I believe the Heathen thread has just as much right to exist as the BAC thread, both are for support.

2) I agree with the "can't respond to part" and hopefully it's been clear that at least I don't say anything there that I don't say anyhwere else. In fact I think that's true for most posters to that thread.

It's also possible it was a repsonse to something said in the BAC thread. Another problem with these exclusive threads, no mutual place to respond that makes sense.

...

Actually the hurtful posts continue. The reasons you are hurt by the other thread is EXACTLY why the BAC comments are hurtful to the others. I not going to hijack this thread to try and explain it further, in fact I think most people on that thread refuse to accept their posts "only about beliefs" are hurtful to non-Christians.

Thanks for the response, cardaway.

Yes, you are right that both threads have every right to exist. If Christians can ask for support than so can non-Christians. I agree with you. I also agree about the no place to respond issue. You are right that the comment about me was actually a quote of mine from the BAC thread (taken out of context, but that’s not really relevant to my point). I hadn’t thought about it before that the poster didn’t really have another place to say what they did. That is a good point. Your point about belief posts is exactly what I was trying to say. Belief posts can be hurtful since they are by nature so personal. Just as I can be hurt by someone saying that they believe the Bible is a book of fairy tales, someone else could be hurt if a someone said that all non-believers are delusional. I think there is a way to have firm beliefs (even beliefs that by nature involve a set path to salvation) without saying hurtful things to others. For instance, you won’t find me calling a non-believer deluded. First of all, I don’t think non-believers are deluded, I just think they have different beliefs than I do. Secondly, even if I believe someone is wrong doesn’t mean I have to point it out, especially not in a hurtful way. Out of curiosity though, all the posts on the BAC thread lately have been for prayer support. I’m not sure what is offensive about that.

Thanks for sharing your point of view. I think we both feel the same way about several things even though we’re on different sides of the issue.

 

[gina2000]

IMO most people do say things the way they would to others. As posted earlier, they are taken wrong due to the nature of the internet.

As for garbage, everybody feels differently about what is garbage. I think the game threads are doing nothing but taking up space, but as bad as people say others like me are, you don't see me going in each one and saying so.

That's the way I see these boards. Rarely does somebody ever go in and say something stinks just to say it, they have a reason.

I think some people just don't know how to address others in a polite manner. I don't mind forthrightness but I do object to name calling and sneering. Some of the latter comes forth and while it may be exaggerated by the nature of the internet, the intent is more than clear.

I don't care about garbage threads, i.e., those that take up space. I care about garbage posts where people look to incite others. And I truly believe that people do exactly that with exactly that intent. I'm not talking about answering in an honest, forthright manner. I'm talking about snideness.

I agree that people don't just say something stinks just to say it. But sometimes their reasons are quite different than honesty. Some people come here to make themselves feel better and if that means sticking it to someone else, that's the method they employ. Also, all of us come here with vastly different life experiences, some very bitter and angry, and many find it hard to be objective about another's problems because of their own life experiences. I understand that and it's usually cleared up if people take the time to articulate why they feel the way they do rather than perform a hit and run type post. It takes time to articulate and most people don't or can't.

While I can't say that I've ever particularly labelled you a bad guy, cardaway, I do see you as impatient at times. I don't read enough here to pay attention to most individual posters, so forgive me if I've mislabelled you. Since you've indicated that you're "the bad guy", I suspect there's some dynamics you may be missing if you honestly don't see yourself that way.

 

[bicker]

1) I believe the Heathen thread has just as much right to exist as the BAC thread, both are for support.

Note that both these threads, as well as the Democrats and Republicans threads, are clearly labeled as Support threads. They were deliberately created with the intention of bypassing the default nature of online discussion threads.

One of the interesting mental exercise is to consider recent contentious threads, and come up with the thread title for a Support thread for the OP's perspective. In some cases, it's not a problem. In other cases, it is, or at least difficult to come up with a title that doesn't sound like it is encouraging something naughty, and I suggest that in those cases, conflict is inevitable.

2) I agree with the "can't respond to part"

Many threads cast aspersions on folks not even members of the boards; so they couldn't even violate the boundaries of Support threads if they wanted to. I find that as objectionable, if not more so.

Rarely does somebody ever go in and say something stinks just to say it, they have a reason.

However, often that reason is sometimes the reflection of a personal perspective.

 

[cardaway]

However, often that reason is sometimes the reflection of a personal perspective.

Please expand on this, I'm not following you.

 

[WIcruizer]

We can phrase things however we like, but in religion and politics people have strong, deep rooted beliefs. It's almost impossible to discuss either subject without people getting upset, insulted, etc.