Incedent at DTD

[livie1205]

Wow, just read the other article someone posted and I don't see how anyone would think otherwise at this point. The guy even said he knew he had made a mistake right away .. This is rape . Would you consider it rape if it was not done on Disney property or by a Disney employee? I guess I am just trying to understand why the victim blaming? Oh well , I am positive the OCSD and OMP will handle this . Those men and women are dedicated workers down there.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I tell you what I don't think is rape. I don't think a lady and a guy getting wicked wasted and they both have a feel good moment and the guy is under the impression she wants it. She isn't resisting at all and is even participating. Then the next morning she doesn't really remember anything, but cries rape. This is what I don't considered rape.

Yikes.

"Isn't resisting at all and is even participating..."

That quote says so much to me.

Coercion IS rape and the victim wouldn't be resisting. How does one "not participate"?

And not to mention, from the lastest article I've read, the guy knows he did wrong. It doesn't have to be a predatory situation to be rape.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Naked wasted is never a good thing. Some people can appear to be a bit past their limit, but not incapacitated. While in reality, they don't remember what happened or are too embarrassed to admit it. Sad story either way.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Naked wasted is never a good thing. Some people can appear to be a bit past their limit, but not incapacitated. While in reality, they don't remember what happened or are too embarrassed to admit it. Sad story either way.

Yes, It's a sad story either way.
Honestly I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. While I think a man getting a woman drunk to take advantage of her is totally wrong, I also don't think it's right to put all responsibility on the man's shoulders if both are drinking.
If you're drink, it's not easy to tell how drunk someone else is. How can we say a drunk woman is incapable of making the decision to have sex but a drunk man should be able to determine how drunk someone else is?

 

[gottaluvPluto]

WOW! Lots of replies about my comments and taken a way it shouldn't be. What I mean about participation is, she is taking his clothes off, she is taking off her clothes, she is kissing him, she is putting on his condom, she wants it just as much as he wants it, but then the next morning she regrets it or doesn't remember it and cries rape. Plus, he is just as trashed as the girl. I'm surprised with all these comments being ok with the man taking the full responsibility if they are both trashed, and both wanting it at the same time.

I don't know the entire story so I am not going to string this guy on a rope without knowing everything. What if he didn't rape her and now is life is ruined?

 

[rigs32]

Just because a woman is willing to fool around and take some clothes off doesn't mean she's giving consent for intercourse. Either party can pull the plug at any time.

Your position is similar to all the men who claimed it was ok because she "led him on" or was a "tease".

 

[missbrooke06]

Please look at this graph, and reassess your thoughts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/07/the-saddest-graph-youll-see-today/ (In case anyone is wondering about the source, it's from the FBI and Department of Justice's crime data)

Great graph (or great representation of sad data). I think there's a tendency to assume if it's reported but no charges are filed, it was a false accusation which is not at all the case.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Just because a woman is willing to fool around and take some clothes off doesn't mean she's giving consent for intercourse. Either party can pull the plug at any time.

Your position is similar to all the men who claimed it was ok because she "led him on" or was a "tease".

I agree that a woman can say no at anytime and if the guy continues it is rape.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Just because a woman is willing to fool around and take some clothes off doesn't mean she's giving consent for intercourse. Either party can pull the plug at any time.

Your position is similar to all the men who claimed it was ok because she "led him on" or was a "tease".

You are misinterpreting the other post.

It's clearly talking about a woman who does not say no and later regrets it.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Why, why, why...do women get poop faced drunk, leave with a man and go to the parking lot, his car or hotel room?Yes, no means NO, but for heaven's sake, DON'T put yourself in that position in the first place!

 

[Teresa Pitman]

I tell you what I don't think is rape. I don't think a lady and a guy getting wicked wasted and they both have a feel good moment and the guy is under the impression she wants it. She isn't resisting at all and is even participating. Then the next morning she doesn't really remember anything, but cries rape. This is what I don't considered rape.

Rape is sex without consent. If a woman is drunk, she can't consent. The man may also be drunk and not able to make good judgements about this, but that's not a defense.

 

[sam_gordon]

Wow, just read the other article someone posted and I don't see how anyone would think otherwise at this point. The guy even said he knew he had made a mistake right away .. This is rape . Would you consider it rape if it was not done on Disney property or by a Disney employee? I guess I am just trying to understand why the victim blaming? Oh well , I am positive the OCSD and OMP will handle this . Those men and women are dedicated workers down there.

I'm sorry, there's not enough information in that story to convince me it was rape yet. Since we're talking legal definitions, I still have what I feel is "reasonable doubt" that what happened was rape. I still think there were two very drunk individuals who had sexual intercourse. And I don't accept the "if you're drunk, you can't consent". Did the man drug the woman at any time without her knowledge? Did the woman at any time give any indication she did not consent? Did the woman at any time give any indication she wanted the act to stop? Unless the woman was unconscious either before or during the act, if all of the answers to those questions are "no", then it's not rape. Even if police believe this MAY have been rape, short of a witness or security cameras, I think it's going to be hard to prove in court.

 

[sam_gordon]

If a woman is drunk, she can't consent.

That sets the bar too low IMO.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

There may well be! We certainly know that many, many rapes are not reported.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

So glad I'm not single in this world we live in.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I'm sorry, there's not enough information in that story to convince me it was rape yet. Since we're talking legal definitions, I still have what I feel is "reasonable doubt" that what happened was rape. I still think there were two very drunk individuals who had sexual intercourse. And I don't accept the "if you're drunk, you can't consent". Did the man drug the woman at any time without her knowledge? Did the woman at any time give any indication she did not consent? Did the woman at any time give any indication she wanted the act to stop? Unless the woman was unconscious either before or during the act, if all of the answers to those questions are "no", then it's not rape. Even if police believe this MAY have been rape, short of a witness or security cameras, I think it's going to be hard to prove in court.

One does not have to be unconscious to be considered incapacitated and therefore unable to consent.

Sadly, many of the posts on this thread are examples of the "rape culture" and victim blaming that still persists in this country.

I'm always a bit amazed at the number of people who go straight to the regret drunken sex and then cry rape scenario. These are really few and far between. IMO the bigger tragedy is the number of rapes (especially males) that go unreported due to fears (which are not completely unfounded) of victim blaming and retaliation.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

That sets the bar too low IMO.

Apparently, that's exactly where the bar is needed.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

One does not have to be unconscious to be considered incapacitated and therefore unable to consent.

Sadly, many of the posts on this thread are examples of the "rape culture" and victim blaming that still persists in this country.

I'm always a bit amazed at the number of people who go straight to the regret drunken sex and then cry rape scenario. These are really few and far between. IMO the bigger tragedy is the number of rapes (especially males) that go unreported due to fears (which are not completely unfounded) of victim blaming and retaliation.

Yes. All of this.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

If a man gets drunk and has sex with a woman who is not drunk, meaning he cannot consent because he's drunk, did she rape him? Would she be charged with rape after the fact if he reported it?

 

[sam_gordon]

One does not have to be unconscious to be considered incapacitated and therefore unable to consent.

So at what alcohol level should someone be considered "incapacitated"? Should it be the same level as that for DUI? If I am at a bar and having drinks with a woman and she gives all the indications of wanting sex, I should say "no" simply because I know she's had alcohol? Or does it depend on how much alcohol? Two drinks? Three? Four? What if she had drinks before going to the bar that I don't know about? What if she had drinks at the bar that I don't know about? If I've had two drinks, should I refuse sex? Should everyone carry portable breathalyzers around and if things start getting "hot and heavy" they can test each other?

I have no problems with the police investigating this case. I have a problem with people online who were no where near the incident and only know what's been reported saying "It's obvious he raped her!"