If you are Lutheran.....

[Papa Deuce]

can you please PM me and tell me what you like and don't like about your church? And, if you can make informed comparisons to the Catholic church, I would like to hear those as well.

I am a very long time lapsed Catholic, who will never be going back, but would like, maybe, to find a little spirituality. And, from what I gather from what I read, and from seeing the movie "Luther" ( ) I think I lean that way.

Don't post in public if you don't want to. I know that religious threads get on many people's nerves.

Thanks a bunch.

 

[Papa Deuce]

bumping it up....

 

[grinningghost]

Interesting Papa Deuce - I'm pretty much in the exact same boat.

Just a little aside. When DD was born, the Catholic church refused to baptise her, since I was unmarried. The Lutheran church welcomed us with open arms. I haven't been a practicing Lutheran, but I am now considering it.

 

[kimwim8]

I'll PM you.

 

[mrsv98]

I am Lutheran and think it is a wonderful religion. One thing to keep in mind when looking at churches is that there are different branches of the Lutheran Church. I have gone to ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) churches and find them to be warm and accepting. There is another branch, the Missouri Synod that is much more rigid and traditional, and in my experience, less tolerant. **Please, no flames, this is my experience, your's may vary.** The best thing to do is
try out" different churches and see what you think. I am currently looking for a new church since we moved. My old one is still in reasonable driving distance but my pastor retired and I am not wild about the new "team" pastors. Good luck, I think it is worth the effort to find a church you are comfortable with.

 

[Bichon Barb]

www.elca.org

No flames here. I agree that the synods are quite different.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Just curious how synods are so different? No flames either, I just don't know the difference.

 

[Bichon Barb]

Just curious how synods are so different? No flames either, I just don't know the difference.

I came up with this after a quick search. I haven't read it yet.

What are the differences between
the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)
and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS)?

The differences between the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS) largely arise from historical and cultural factors, although some are theological in character.

When Lutherans came to North America, they started church bodies that reflected, to some degree, the churches that they left behind. Many maintained until the early 20th century their immigrant languages. They sought pastors from the "old country" until patterns for the education of clergy could be developed here. Eventually, seminaries and church colleges were established in many places to serve the Lutheran churches in North America and, initially, especially to prepare pastors to serve congregations.

The earliest predecessor synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America was constituted on August 25, 1748, in Philadelphia. It was known as the Ministerium of Pennsylvania. The ELCA is the product of a series of mergers and represents the largest (5.2 million member) Lutheran church body in North America. The ELCA was created in 1988 by the uniting of the 2.85 million member Lutheran Church in America, 2.25 million member American Lutheran Church, and the 100,000 member Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches. Previously, the ALC and LCA in the early 1960s came into being as a result of mergers of eight smaller ethnically based Lutheran bodies composed of German, Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, Swedish, Slovak, Dutch, and other folk.

The ELCA tends to be more involved in ecumenical endeavors than the LCMS. The ELCA, through predecessor church bodies, is a founding member of the Lutheran World Federation, World Council of Churches and the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. The LCMS does not belong to any of these.

The LCMS sprang from German immigrant roots in the St. Louis area and has a continuous history since it was established in 1847. The LCMS is a second largest Lutheran church body in North America (2.7 million). It identifies itself as a church with an emphasis on biblical doctrine and faithful adherence to the historic Lutheran confessions. Insistence by some LCMS leaders on a literalist reading of all passages of Scripture led to a rupture in the mid-1970s, which in turn resulted in the formation of the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches, now part of the ELCA.

The pattern of Scripture interpretation generally practiced in the ELCA seeks to consider carefully the meanings of passages and their form. The time and place in which passages were written are studied to assist in interpretation. Emphasis is placed on the message of a text in the context of Scripture. As indicated in the ELCA's constitution, "This church accepts the canonical Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as the inspired Word of God and the authoritative source and norm of its proclamation, faith, and life."

For more information on the history and current documents of the ELCA, look at other resources linked to the "Who We Are" section of the ELCA web site. Another resource related to this topic is the bulletin insert series "With Confidence in God's Future."

 

[Jennifer S]

I was raised Catholic - went to catholic school for 12 years too. When my parents divorced we were not really welcomed anymore. My mom couldn't afford to "give" enough money evry Sunday and we got letters about it. That really turned me off. Where was the church when we needed them?

I married a Luthern and now I go to a Luthern church and LOVE it. Catholic and Luthern are very similiar but I think Luthern is more in-line w/ my beliefs- wow you can even use birth control (pet peeve of mine w/ Catholic church).

There are some differences but they aren't that big. Try a Luthern church and see it for yourself. Ours is an ELCA too.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Thanks for the search Barb. I seems the difference is in how they interpret the Bible?

I was raised LCMS and went to LCMS school through 8th grade. Maybe it was just the church we went to, but I never found it rigid, even as a child/young adult. It probably also has a lot to do with the Pastor (we had 3) that you had. My parents switched to a different LCMS church after the 3 kids were out of the school. I did not like the Pastor of that church. He seemed very strict to me. I was in college by this time.

In my research since moving to WI it seems like most of the churches here are ELCA. I never gave it a second thought when we were looking around. Interesting.

 

[TigerBear]

I was raised a Missouri-Synod Lutheran. In undergrad I took a Sociology of Religions class and wrote my term paper on the differences between MS and ELCA. As others have noted, ELCA definitely tends to be more socially liberal. I can not imagine returning to a MS Lutheran Church.

From http://experts.about.com/q/956/3795472.htm

The difference between Lutheran churches is major! I will attempt to point out some of the major areas:

Evangelical Lutheran Church in American: teaches salvation outside of Chrisitanity, favors women pastors, leans towards homosexual rights and ordination, teaches evolution, and is fairly pro-abortion.

Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod: Scripture alone is rule, therefore, in Christ's words, Christ is the only way to salvation; does not favor women pastors (or voters),
opposes gay rights and views homosexuality as a sin, teaches creation, and
is strongly pro-life.

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod: Scripture alone is rule, therefore, in Christ's words, Christ is the only way to salvation; does not favor women pastors but allows women to vote in the church, opposes gay rights and views homosexuality as a sin, teaches creation, and is strongly pro-life.

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Can I ask how you can reach salvation outside of Christianity?

 

[TigerBear]

JL, if there is an easy answer to that I would love to hear it. From http://www.elca.org/questions/Results.asp?recid=21

Will, then, all people be saved in the end? We must say with Braaten, "We do not ... know the answer. (That) is stored up in the mystery of God’s own future. All (God) has let us know in advance is that he will judge the world according to the measure of his grace and love made known in Jesus Christ, which is ultimately greater than the fierceness of his wrath or the hideousness of our sin."

 

[binny]

I just read through this thread briefly but I wanted to agree with the "try different Churches within a demonination"!

Im Nazarene born and bred ( 4th generation even! ) but there have been Nazarene Churches that totally put me off. To the point where I wanted to abandon the denomination totally!
Then we found our Home Church. I could NOT be happier with this church than I am! Its big but everyone is still accesible. The people are friendly and caring and the amount of support weve received here... well lets just say we havent ever found it anywhere else!

So it really makes a big difference!

Best wishes to you!

 

[disneymom3]

I will answer in public too!

I was raised Catholic, tried out a Missouri Synod Lutheran church for awhile and have now been attending an ELCA church for two years.

The differences as I see them--MI synod I call Catholic light or Decaf Catholic. You get all of the traditions without quite the same rules. For instance, there are only 2 sacraments instead of 7, you don't have communiion every week (it's one of the sacraments that isn't in the two.)The pastors can marry and I think that women can be pastors. However, the two MI synod churches that we attended had almost exactly the same format as a Mass. And at the two we were at, there was no Sunday School during service, it was on a separate night and your kids had to sit there through the service which had nothing aimed at them. Now, I know that that could be just the two we went to and others could be totally different.

The ELCA church we attend is totally different. The biggest differences I can address are between the Catholic churches and this one as I said, I grew up Catholic and attended and really was happy being Catholic well into adulthood. For a bit of background, we left the Catholic church when DD was in first grade. I had not been to Reconcilliation/confession since I was 8 years old. I do not like it and I do not beleive in it. They were going to make DD go through (receive the Sacrament) of Reconcilliation in first grade and she had to do that before she could have her first communion. Couldn't do that, so we went church shopping.

Anyway, one of the differences is the aformentioned Sunday school--two things with that. First off, we moved to this city two months into the school year and when I called the Catholic church in town to register her for Sunday school-esque classes, we were told they would see if there was room and then called back and told she could start in Jan. (This was Oct) Not very welcoming but not too unexpected since the church we had been attending had a mandatory parent meeting one evening in May and if you didn't attend it, your kids couldn't be in Sunday school the following year. And even if you did, you might not get your child in to class--we didn't get in to that one. Fast forward to the current church--we decide that is where we are going to attend, I call the youth pastor and tell him I want to see if there is room for DD in SS. He says, "Yep, there sure is." I pointed out that he didn't know how old DD was. His response, "It doesn't matter. At this church there is room for every child who wants to come to Sunday School. If there isn't room in her grade, we will start a new class." I cried. Second point with Sunday School is it is just that. It meets during service for three year olds through 5th grade. There are two services each Sunday and SS is offerred at both. So, no kids sitting and fidgetting and not getting anything out of the whole thing. Instead, my kids go to Sunday School and have a wonderful time and are excited about God. They LOVE going to church.

As far as service, it is much more laid back--lots of songs, the format changes a bit, sometimes we have dramas or video clips etc. However, it is also very Biblically based. Our pastors reference several passages from the Bible in their preaching. That is another thing that I love. They will take a theme and then pull from all parts of the Bible to discuss it. I personally was sick of hearing the same darn readings of the Bible every three years. At this church, I have learned that all through the Bible the same themes reverberate. The sermon might be on trust for instance and then we hear from the books of Hebrews, Isaiha, Psalms, Mathew and Corinthians. I never really got before that so many of the messages are the same throughout the whole book!

Anyway, there might be more, but I have to take DD to class.

 

[mjslvswdw1]

I too am a LCMS member, and have been my whole life(29 years). I have never felt as though my church is too rigid or controling. It always seemed as a matter of knowing what is right from wrong. We were always taught that there is a lot of "Law" but there is always grace through Christ. I have found great comfort in practicing my faith...I always say "I'm a Christian first and Lutheran second."
No flames to anyone who is ELCA or Wisconsin Synod, I prefer what I practice. I too went to a LCMS grade school and junior high and want to send my children to my current church's preschool and gradeschool.
I believe it is a matter of which one you feel more comfortable with..teachings and so forth. Bless you in your journey!

Melissa

Edited in: LCMS teaches that to have everlasting life in heaven you must believe that Christ is your Savior, and good works(while very important) have nothing to do with your salvation.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Thanks for all the info so far. I'm like a sponge at the moment!

 

[Jenn Lynn]

Thank you TigerBear, that just confused me more. LOL!

I guess growing up LCMS we were taught you believe in God, you try to live a Godly life, you are truely sorry for your sins, you will go to Heaven. If you don't believe in God you don't go to Heaven. So I was just wondering how you can not believe in God, but still go to Heaven??? That's what I took the "Salvation outside of christianity" to mean. Maybe I am to literal?

From your comparisons of the 3 Lutheran branches the two things that get me with ELCA are teaching Evolution and Pro-abortion. How is evolution taught? Instead of creation? Or both? Do they teach the Big Bang theory?

With LCMS the thing I struggle with is gay rights, but we won't go there. I don't find the no women Pastors particularly offensive. Maybe it is because that is what I am used to.

Now I have to really rethink ELCA. I probably should just talk to the Pastor and find out the churches overall beliefs/teachings.

 

[castlegazer]

I am Lutheran - Wisconsin Synod (WELS). The most conservative of the synods. Wisconsin Synod Lutherans are very, very different from ELCA. Here is a link to what we believe: http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?process&procID=2601&collectionID=795 and http://www.wels.net/s3/uploaded/4421/eng.pdf

I am married to a Catholic and have baptised my son Catholic - believe it or not. I am still very much a Lutheran and will raise my son in the teachings of the Lutheran Church.

<CENTER>Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Spreading the Word... Around the World</CENTER>




WELS, characterized as theologically conservative, is the third largest Lutheran church body in America. With national offices today at 2929 N. Mayfair Rd., Milwaukee, Wis., WELS began in 1850 when three German pastors met in Milwaukee. Today, it has grown to over 1,200 congregations in North America. It has over 400,000 baptized members, which includes over 300,000 communicants, served by over 1,000 pastors.

The synod operates four ministerial education schools: Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wis.; Martin Luther College, New Ulm, Minn.; Luther Preparatory School, Watertown, Wis.; and Michigan Lutheran Seminary, Saginaw, Mich.

*Excerpt​

Nearly 500 years ago, the Christian church was corrupted by many false teachings. A man named Martin Luther led people back to the teachings of the Bible. His work, and that of his friends, is called the Reformation. Through Luther God restored the church to purity of doctrine and a new life of faith in Christ.


The doctrines of the Lutheran Church are not new. They are the teachings of the Bible. Thus the Lutheran Church is not a new church. It is not a sect or cult.

It is a church whose teaching is based on the words written by the prophets of the Old Testament and the apostles of the New Testament. The Bible tells us about Jesus Christ. The teachings of the Lutheran Church are those of the original, ancient church of the apostles and early Christians.

 

[eeyore45]

Agreeing as a Lutheran, try different churches!! I went to many different churches as I grew up (even went to a few Catholic Catechism classes!) but I always felt "home" in a Lutheran Church, so now when we move, I always seek out the Lutheran ELCA churches, and visit. No church is perfect, we are human, and humans muck it up often!

The difference in Lutheran Churches that I've read is that the Lutheran faith believes we are saved by God's GRACE, and Martin Luther himself was a firm believer in the Catholic faith, he didnt think he was good enough to be saved into Heaven, he used to beat himself to repent (as a monk!) As he read the Bible he had an epiphany which made Him realize that only thru God's Grace are we saved, and forgiven...

So to me the Lord's Grace is huge!! Remember too, as you visit the churches its often the Pastor that makes an impression, and yet, the Pastor's change, leave, retire etc, so you need to make sure the people of the church are in line with your way of loving, and living. I've been on many boards that over see hiring new ministers, that can be tricky!! Change is hard, but change is constant!!

ELCA is going thru some changes, and not everyone agrees with them, they seem to be more accepting of our Global World. Some Lutheran Churches have moved to a "Seeker" church, in which the emphasis is on Jesus, and salvation, the music is contemporary and lively. Our Lutheran Church is very accepting and loving of anyone - our Pastor is married to a wonderful woman, who is Jewish, and we encorporate a Christian Passover/Seder meal, its a beautiful experience remembering the Last Supper was a Passover meal. Another member came to us, because her husband was Lutheran, she got involved in the Alter Guilde (helping prepare the Sanctuary, the Communion etc) and she told us it was the first Christian church that accepted her and her Jewish faith with open arms... again, they had visited several Lutheran churches, but felt ours was "home" for them... others do not believe it is... every church is different!

communion is open to all those that believe and are welcome in the ELCA church, that can shock some to see children partaking of the bread and wine of our Lord!